The Scottish Football thread

[Adam]

When will we know for sure whether this shambolic 'club' will or will not have a place in the Scottish football league next season then? If they get voted out of the SPL next Wednesday and aren't accepted by the SFL in any division then is that it?

[Sam]

What happened to the plan to buy Bury? If that happens I'd be mortified.

[Hobo]

Bury publicly came out an said no to it. IIRC.

[Lineker]

The 30 Scottish Football League clubs will meet on Tuesday to discuss Scottish FA proposals that would see a Rangers newco play in the First Division next season.

The plans include a £1m payment from the Scottish Premier League to the SFL for TV coverage of Rangers' matches.

Play-offs between the SPL and the First Division are also on the agenda, along with a fairer distribution of revenue.

A merger of the SPL and the SFL the season after next is also proposed.

No vote will take place at the Hampden meeting.

Rather, the mood of clubs will be gauged and, if a ballot is required, an extraordinary general meeting can be called within five days.

It is not yet clear how many of the 30 clubs would need to vote in favour of the plans for them to proceed.

"We are trying to achieve a solution which will be in the best interests of the Scottish Football League and the wider game," said SFL chief executive David Longmuir last week.

Rangers FC plc is soon to be liquidated after failing to exit administration and Charles Green's consortium are reforming the club.

But Green's Rangers newco has not gained the required support to replace the old club in the SPL.

An SFA document, seen by BBC Scotland on 28 June, recommends that Dundee, runners-up in Division One last season, should take up the SPL vacancy.

That would leave the lower divisions with a place to fill, with previous new entrants entering the senior leagues in Division Three, as Annan Atheltic did in 2008 following the demise of Gretna.

Falkirk, Raith Rovers and Morton have voiced their opposition to a Rangers newco joining them in Division One, while Clyde and Peterhead have also gone public with their opposition.

On Monday, Longmuir released a short statement in response to supporters who have contacted his organisation.

"The Scottish Football League would like to acknowledge and thank all fans who have taken the time to contact us in relation to the current critical issues affecting our game," he said.

"Many fans have shared with us their concerns and their views on opportunities for the broader game which may arise out of the current issue.

"I can confirm that every piece of communication has been read objectively and sincerely, and that many contributions have been insightful and thought-provoking. We will, however, be unable to respond to each individual piece of correspondence."

[Lineker]

The Scottish players union has criticised Rangers chief executive Charles Green for warning clubs not to sign players opting to leave Ibrox.

PFA Scotland believes players are free agents if they refuse to have their contracts switched from the old Rangers to Green's newco consortium.

"The Players Union is dismayed that attempts are being made to prevent our members from playing professional football," it said.

Three players have already found clubs.

Norwich City have announced that they have signed Scotland defender Steven Whittaker, Sion have agreed a deal with Northern Ireland striker Kyle Lafferty, while Scotland Under-21 midfielder Jamie Ness is to join Stoke City.

Scotland forward Steven Naismith is reportedly close to joining Everton.

PFA Scotland is backing such moves and claims they are free transfers after the players involved took up the right to not have their contracts moved over to the new company in charge of Rangers.

But Green has vowed to fight for transfer money and revealed he had written to every league club in the UK warning them to stay away from players exiting the Glasgow club.

"Whilst it is accepted that newco is entitled to argue breach of contract, the players' union is dismayed that attempts are being made to prevent our members from playing professional football simply because they have exercised their legal right not to transfer to newco," said PFA Scotland chairman Tony Higgins.

"I haven't spoken to a single employment or sports solicitor who agrees with Mr Green's interpretation of the law.

"Our members are being advised by our employment specialists, Brian Napier QC and Wil Van Megen, head of legal department at FIFPro.

"We are supremely confident that, under TUPE and European Law on basic principles of freedom of movement, our members are entitled to sign for new clubs."

Scotland goalkeeper Allan McGregor, captain Steven Davis, fellow midfielders Rhys McCabe and John Fleck, plus forward Sone Aluko have also all refused to have their contracts shifted.

[Cymbols]

Green sounds like a prick. The players don't want to be there and he should respect that and let them leave without hassling them.

[Lineker]

Worried Scottish Premier League chairmen are believed to be holding a late night conference call as they try to resolve the crisis over Rangers.

It came the night before a vote of the 12 clubs to decide on the application from Charles Green's newco Rangers to be admitted to the top flight.

Motherwell have become the eighth club likely to vote against.

But the vote comes amid warnings about the future of Scottish football should Rangers drop to Division Three.

Scottish Football League clubs had gathered to consider that option and the alternative of placing the Ibrox club in Division One.

At least 10 SFL clubs had confirmed their opposition to the First Division plan before the meeting.

However, addressed by Scottish Football Association chief executive Stewart Regan and SPL counterpart Neil Doncaster, they were given more detail on claims made in a controversial document outlining the commercial impact of the options.

It includes an assertion that £16m would be lost to the Scottish game if Rangers are relaunched in the Third Division.

No vote had been planned at the SFL meeting and the 30 clubs agreed to consult with their own boards and fans then meet again on 12 July, when a vote is expected.

BBC Scotland understands that some involved in the conference call - between the 11 SPL clubs, excluding Rangers - are pressing for their own vote to be postponed to allow the lower league clubs to make a decision on Rangers' fate.A number of clubs have listened to the views of their fans, who want Rangers refused entry to the SPL, but fear a resulting loss of television and other revenue would cripple their own finances.

Motherwell became the latest to signal their intentions following the result of a survey among members of the Well Society and shareholders.

With the club's board having promised that the result would help determine their stance, 82% of the 661 taking part rejected the proposal to allow the newco Rangers into the SPL.

St Johnstone issued a statement reaffirming their intention to vote against the application from Green's consortium.

"There has been a good deal of press speculation in advance of tomorrow's meeting of the SPL clubs with regard to how each club will cast their vote in relation to the newco Rangers application to join the SPL," it said.

"For avoidance of doubt, the club's position remains as per the statement which was issued on Monday 25 June confirming that the club will not be supporting the application."

Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hearts, Hibernian, Inverness Caledonian Thistle and St Mirren have also all previously stated that they will vote against, with Celtic, Kilmarnock and Ross County yet to make a firm commitment.

Meanwhile, the Rangers Fans Fighting Fun has claimed that a poll of supporters showed that 75% of the club's fans would rather play in Division Three than accept a compromise deal for a place in Division One.

Only 3% wanted to accept a place in Division One if it meant that sanctions were inherited as a result of the actions of the old Rangers, which is heading for liquidation.

Even a place in Division One without sanctions only received the support of 20%.

So, so fickle.

[Adam]

They should, at best, have to start in the Third Division. I'd prefer it if they were just flat jettisoned into non-league personally, but that's not going to happen.

I'm glad the SPL clubs have at least taken a stand and not bowed to financial pressure or anything like that. The integrity of the game is at stake.

[Crybaby Bunting]

They should, at best, have to start in the Third Division. I'd prefer it if they were just flat jettisoned into non-league personally, but that's not going to happen.

Not sure about that actually, at this moment in time (old) Rangers has yet to be fully liquidated and Sevco (the new company) has yet to transfer all assets over.

Sevco is a company, not a football club. Rangers seem to believe that it's acceptable to set up a business once they discover what league they will be playing in, forgetting that it works the other way around. You have to have a club in order to apply for league membership (at Division 3) and I think we're close to the deadline passing. If the deadline passes and say, a non-league team has already applied for membership (remember, Rangers can't just apply for membership in all leagues at once) then there is no way that Rangers could jump the queue.

Basically I think we're going to end up with an 11 team SPL, with the league system unchanged and with Rangers unable to join a league this season because you can't physically push through everything on time. Sevco isn't a football club so the vote tomorrow is for an unnamed football club to gain entry into the SFA, I think enough clubs are smart enough to recognise that it isn't a legitimate football club.

Ultimately I think that it's a huge game of chicken. The owners of old Rangers, Sevco and their assets (whoever they are now) have absolutely nothing to lose so are trying to impose enough pressure to give them an easier ride into league reentry. It'd cost a LOT less to buy 1st Division players to play in the 1st Division than it would to buy pretty much a new team every division from the 3rd division upwards.

Even if they lose any appeal then they have nothing to lose because they aren't a football club and don't own any players. As you can't own a players registration without being part of a football club they can just ditch all playing staff on frees and start rebuilding a team over their unplayed next season.

[Adam]

Fair enough, I didn't realise they weren't even a physical football club at the moment, I thought that was too stupid a thing to not put in place by this stage. I hold out hope that they go into oblivion then!

And I imagine a 12 team SPL will exist either way, didn't they say for sure that either Dundee or Dunfermline would take the 'Club 12' spot? Season before last the SFL reshuffled every league just one week before the season due to Livingston getting demoted. Cowdenbeath and I believe Airdrie found themselves a league higher than they had planned for, yet Cowdenbeath still somehow managed to win promotion that year into Division 1.

[Cadj]

SPL clubs overwhelmingly vote no to the newco entering the SPL.

Now we just need the SFL to hold and reject them entering the first division. Then hopefully when Rangers apply for the 3rd they pick another club.

[Crybaby Bunting]

From what I'm hearing, it was 11-1 against Rangers entering the SPL

[Adam]

Did Rangers have a vote? Just confused as to there being 12 voters. If it wasn't them I'd like to see who voted to let them back in.

[Sam]

Rangers had a vote.

[Cadj]

Yeah Rangers had a vote.

By all accounts Kilmarnock abstained from voting, everyone else said no.

[Crybaby Bunting]

Charles Green, owner of some assets of the old Rangers (I'm not going to call him an owner, he didn't buy the club, he just bought a few assets to make sure he didn't take on the debt) has apparently been threatening Premier League and Championship teams who have been trying to sign ex-Rangers players.

PFA Scotland Solicitor Margaret Gribbon of Bridge Litigation has today written to all English Premier League and Championship Clubs responding to Charles Green’s letter to them dated 29th June 2012. Ms Gribbon stated “I have been furnished with a copy of Mr Green’s letter sent to English Clubs in their top two divisions and consider that it amounts to an attempt to deliberately misrepresent my clients position. I have therefore today sent a detailed letter to the Clubs setting out the facts and repeating our very firm legal view that Mr Green’s allegations of breach of contract are entirely without legal merit. My clients are free agents and I am pleased to note that several Premier League Clubs have already made applications to the SFA for International Transfer Certificates indicating that they attach little weight to Mr Green’s assertion that Sevco is entitled to seek damages for breach of contract”

“Furthermore it should also be noted that the SFA has confirmed that in the event of there being a dispute over registration the matter will be referred to FIFA. We can confirm that the SFA has today rejected to issue the registration for one of our clients to an English Premier League Club. The Club in question disputes the rejection and will now write to FIFA seeking their intervention. We expect a speedy response from FIFA.”

http://pfascotland.co.uk/2012/news/statement-on-issue-of-itcs-to-players/

[hugobomb]

Apparently all Rangers need to get a SFL place is a simple majority and Dundee have been told they can't vote (might be conflict of interest I guess but surely with Rangers definatly not getting a SPL place next year none exists now? Unless they are counting Dundee as a SPL side now until told otherwise which means Dunfermline will get a vote instead) so 16-14 in favour is what they need. 11 sides have already said they will vote no so could be a very close run thing

[Adam]

Yeah I think it's because they expect to hand Dundee the 12th SPL spot thus they won't be active members of the SFL when the vote comes around.

[Crybaby Bunting]

For a start, I don't see how any Division 1 team would think that it's a good idea to have Rangers in their league, given that it'll probably write off any chance of them getting promoted that year.

I don't see any Division 2 teams voting yes because they wouldn't reap the benefits of Rangers in Division 1.

Same with Division 3, they would be better off if Rangers DIDN'T get into the league so they could reapply at Division 3 and suddenly all the Division 3 clubs would be reaping the reward.

Basically, I think it might be just as much of a landslide victory as the SPL vote, everyone is just trying to keep their cards to their chest so it doesn't look like they were the ones that killed Rangers (or whatever they call the club) if I were the SFA I'd just ask to delay the vote so 'Rangers' have to pay their 'players' another week of wages, which could be enough to cripple the club on it's own.

[The Kraig]

I don't understand why this new club hasn't been put into Division Three. As we've already discussed with The Football League and the Conference, you can't just start at the top of an existing league system. It beggars belief.

I know why the new owners of the stadium, etc are doing all this (to minimise losses) but for fuck's sake, the SPL do not want Rangers. Why would anyone else?

Quite sad the Bury idea died, but I still hope we somehow apply for the English leagues in some respect. The Scottish leagues are a barrel of water compared to the ocean that is the English league system. But the FA approving a Rangers-related side into their league system is remote at best.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the clubs guilty of this "common practice" getting hammered, like Rangers.