Potential Changes to Mod Making

[Gazz]

18 hours ago, Sean O'Game said:

The majority of the group is quite... Anti-Adam to say the least. They do not like him or his methods, which is their right I suppose. However, it is important to note that the group has a tendency to be very much their way or the highway as a whole. Well, rather, their leader Genadi does. He's very much the type that does not easily change from his initial opinion, and will stubbornly stick to it even if it's not the best for the group or mod in question. He also is apparently best mates with Meltzer and emails him often, so make of that what you will.

A late entry for the most pathetic thing I've read all year.

[Adam]

I think others such as C-Mil, Sean and Skummy have made great points and said all I'd want to say on the matter as far as GDS and the concept of Freeware Mods goes. Let's be honest, all these mods are totally custom and completely "freeware" anyway, the attitude of that Mod Squad is laughably absurd. They are aware that without Adam Ryland they wouldn't even exist, right?

As far as EWB, and our mod making and game playing community, goes, I say we should start thinking about pooling mod-making efforts for when TEW 2020 comes out. I would be very enthusiastic to be involved in a team of mod makers on EWB, I think the breadth and depth of the game nowadays means putting out Real World updates is very difficult to do as a solo effort, and I think Who does a great job with that and I play his mods, but I think a collaborative effort with different people focusing on specific areas of both the game itself and the world we're trying to recreate within the game, is the way forward. That applies to keeping up-to-date Mods going and historical mods too.

So if anybody wants to start that particular conversation, let me know because I am extremely up for it. I love the TEW series but it isn't going to be much good if there aren't many playable mods for it in the future.

[Skummy]

Adam has said that he wants mod making to be an easier, more streamlined process in TEW 2020, so I'm looking forward to seeing how that pans out and I'm hopeful that it'll result in some good stuff.

One thing that, for a variety of reasons, I don't think was taken advantage of enough in '16 was the ability to import data. That should have lead to much more collaborative working, and a whole rethink of how modding worked, and I'm hoping 2020 will expand on that.

[DMN in the House]

As someone who's been around since the first EWR (and I know plenty of others who were around for EWD and all that came before), it's just absurd to me that this is even a conversation.

I'd say 'get over yourselves', but glass houses and all.

[Naitch]

6 hours ago, Adam es Tranquilo said:

As far as EWB, and our mod making and game playing community, goes, I say we should start thinking about pooling mod-making efforts for when TEW 2020 comes out.

Mod Squad 2: Electric Warfare Boogaloo

[Draevyn]

6 hours ago, Adam es Tranquilo said:

I think others such as C-Mil, Sean and Skummy have made great points and said all I'd want to say on the matter as far as GDS and the concept of Freeware Mods goes. Let's be honest, all these mods are totally custom and completely "freeware" anyway, the attitude of that Mod Squad is laughably absurd. They are aware that without Adam Ryland they wouldn't even exist, right?

As far as EWB, and our mod making and game playing community, goes, I say we should start thinking about pooling mod-making efforts for when TEW 2020 comes out. I would be very enthusiastic to be involved in a team of mod makers on EWB, I think the breadth and depth of the game nowadays means putting out Real World updates is very difficult to do as a solo effort, and I think Who does a great job with that and I play his mods, but I think a collaborative effort with different people focusing on specific areas of both the game itself and the world we're trying to recreate within the game, is the way forward. That applies to keeping up-to-date Mods going and historical mods too.

So if anybody wants to start that particular conversation, let me know because I am extremely up for it. I love the TEW series but it isn't going to be much good if there aren't many playable mods for it in the future.

I'm willing to help on just about everything in a mod other than worker stats and company stats because I'm horrible at stat balancing. I'd be okay with creating the profiles up until the stats portion of them. From there, I'd be willing to help out with various other things such as Title Histories and the various other things needed for a mod.

 I will say though that I don't think we should wait until TEW 2020 to get started on such a thing. I believe that if we're going to create a collective effort that we start with TEW 2016 and then we've got a solid base when TEW 2020 does come out...we can simply import and add anything needed at that time.

[Gabriel]

19 minutes ago, The Christmas Fork said:

I'm willing to help on just about everything in a mod other than worker stats and company stats because I'm horrible at stat balancing. I'd be okay with creating the profiles up until the stats portion of them. From there, I'd be willing to help out with various other things such as Title Histories and the various other things needed for a mod.

 I will say though that I don't think we should wait until TEW 2020 to get started on such a thing. I believe that if we're going to create a collective effort that we start with TEW 2016 and then we've got a solid base when TEW 2020 does come out...we can simply import and add anything needed at that time.

I will be starting work on a mod by Thursday at the latest. There's a poll up to help decide the start date. Right now, it's looking like June 2002, which is a fantastic place to start if that's what ends up winning out.

I could definitely use some help with things to speed up the process. If you'd like to do Profiles or Title Histories, that would be a fantastic help and a great way for us to start getting a collective group of people together to jump on mod work.

[Draevyn]

3 minutes ago, Gabriel said:

I will be starting work on a mod by Thursday at the latest. There's a poll up to help decide the start date. Right now, it's looking like June 2002, which is a fantastic place to start if that's what ends up winning out.

I could definitely use some help with things to speed up the process. If you'd like to do Profiles or Title Histories, that would be a fantastic help and a great way for us to start getting a collective group of people together to jump on mod work.

Let me know when the poll is done and I'm down. Just throw me a PM and we'll discuss it once it's chosen.

[mkpunk]

I say yes, the more updates the easier it maybe to get stats right or realize that say Joe Blow also goes by Jack Meoffa wearing a mask in another promotion. Also it opens up possibilities of having different promotions be in the game if not active upon start. There are quite a few wrestlers I want to add for the EWR  update (I picked it up this year after PaigeTurner got sent to Siberia and people did want to see it continued) based on suggestions but I cannot because they do not have stats and I'm bogged down trying to find and update guys on my own.

[NeighboorhoodEditor]

I literally just got to this site to say this small message, someone on the Mod Squad thread mentioned EWB I think it was Genadi, stating it was anti TEW, Adam, and against everything GDS (which as I look around, is obviously wrong, that or I read the many ramblings wrong) I just wanted to say that I once wanted to make a mod for the game, it went under but that was just me being preoccupied with life and ect. I wanted to have a base to create off it, so I asked a creator of a mod if it was okay to do just that (can't think of who it was) and within ten minutes he said yes, and I was on my way.

The fact that this created such an issue, albeit most of us people didn't shake two sticks at, is just silly, and I'm glad to see most people, both here and GDS are more level headed then I was lead to believe, in fact I believe I will be using this forum just as much, so everyone wins in the end.

[Draevyn]

I don't think we've ever been anti anything that has to do with TEW or Adam. Many people don't use TEW because they don't really like the complicated nature of it, but there's also tons of us that use it.

[NeighboorhoodEditor]

7 minutes ago, The Christmas Fork said:

I don't think we've ever been anti anything that has to do with TEW or Adam. Many people don't use TEW because they don't really like the complicated nature of it, but there's also tons of us that use it.

I think it was just a baseless accusation, I've never heard any like it before, and I probably will not ever after this.

[KJE]

Quote

This is getting really tiresome now. Here's a suggestion, direct your posts to EWB. It's the forum that actually does what ya'll are claiming we did. Adam's even a member there in the private section. It's a super nice place where they crap on all of the diaries, mods and members here.

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Last edited by Genadi : Today

Tbf, I've seen crapping on the diaries.

I'm so out of the loop on all of this and it's difficult to follow with all of the posts getting deleted.  It is funny that this is all happening over a wrestling simulators editor.

[Sean O'Game]

No, it wasn't a baseless accusation, technically. The entire Mod Squad is incredibly Anti-EWB tbh, having been a member, so Genadi's statement is technically 'based' on the concept he's decided on that EWB is incredibly childish and elitist. 

I hear people mentioning a collaborative group effort and I just wanna say, I'd be down for it. I kind of like the idea of pooling together to create like, a community resource pack of sort. Locations, match types, etc. Something that can easily be imported to help streamline some of the work for potential mod makers.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Sean O'Game

[Draevyn]

I don't think Adam even posts in the "Place that totally doesn't exist"

And if we want to be childish about it, Adam was here long before Greydog or Genadi was even a thing in the EWR world.

But at the end of the day, who gives a shit what they're doing now. Let's just do what we've talked about and get working on some mods and make Genadi and his band of merry men a thing of the past.

[FestiveJack]

Has Genadi even put out anything decent in the last few years? Just seems like someone with a hugely inflated sense of self-importance.

[NeighboorhoodEditor]

I absolutely agree with Christmas Fork about avoiding the modsquad, but I had to put this little gem up here just because of how it just infuriates me:

Spoiler

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. If the reason you took down the mods was to stop Adam and his cronies from grabbing them, editing them for 2020 (this is based off of your comments; I'm not making this claim in any such way; This is a hypothetical so please don't ban me.), and releasing them on the day of (which btw would tick off 90% of the long-time board members that aren't Adam's cronies but wouldn't bother any of the lurkers, CV-diehards, or RW people of which I'm betting are at least 95% of the people who buy the TEW games), exactly how does that stop them from doing that when they've been out for years already? Not to mention anyone just converting the mod themselves into 2020 like a bunch of people have done to iDOL's awesome 2004 mod in 16? Once the files went public, they're out there forever. I have some mods from 2010 sitting on a hard drive for instance that probably don't exist anywhere on the internet right now.

I get it that you're mad as hell and with exceptionally good reason. He (ADAM) went and sprung something on you that he knew was going to back you into a corner and elicit a very negative reaction from you. I'd say that you all should have been smarter than to fall for the trap, but that would have taken ridiculous amounts of restraint which I don't think 99.9999% of the people on the planet have so I can't fault you for that. You all are amazing partly from the start and mostly from the fact that you've been modding for over a decade now for some and 5 years or so for others. If Adam drives you from the game, it will greatly diminish the game for about 50 people, me included.

You guys have the numbers of downloads of the mod but not the hours of play so you can shoot me the numbers as (we have X downloads), but I doubt most of them play for very long (stupid lack of historical appreciation). Which makes what Adam did make absolutely no sense. If his premise was "Well if I can get rid of this group who have been modding for 5-10 years, the modding community will flourish.", I have absolutely no idea how ridiculous that thought was, but it is up there with "The Earth is flat." To echo Tsu, exactly where are the other modders? There are not 15 out there going "If only those egomaniacs on Nexus would stop making mods, I could unleash these 3 awesome mods I've crafted after a year working on each of them." Those people don't exist.

Was the goal to populate the forum with 15 copies of every mod where people made like 5-50 minor stat changes and uploaded them instead of just keeping them for themselves as they do now? I honestly have no idea what Adam's thinking was, but it was never, ever, ever going to fix the lack of mods being published. If his goal was that, the solution was to go to all of the modders and ask, and then go to the other long-term board members and ask them. You don't just up and spring a poll on the modding community, especially when paying for actual products is frowned upon by a lot of the people in that age group and anyone who came after Napster. So they're probably 90-10 or 95-5 "Screw them, let me have all the mods right now. Intellectual Property be danged." Gee, I'm shocked that the poll was overwhelmingly one-sided towards that answer.

Oh, and Adam if you actually wanted to know why the mod's forum is lackluster now (again despite a massive amount of mods released for 2016 already), here are the reasons.

1. Modding is unbearably hard
2. The board picks them apart arguing over mostly minutia while the happy people leave one comment and go play the mod leaving it looking like it wasn't that great a mod when in fact it could be quite good.
3. People have lives.
4. The game was coming to the end of the cycle and people knew it. Honestly, based on past releases, most people probably thought the new version would be coming out now (as 2019) so they didn't mod in the first half of this year.
5. Again, modding is incredibly hard. Burnout is easy to reach.

None of that is going to be solved by letting everyone steal other people's work. Now, if someone wants to up and create their own location/angle/moveset database on their own and post it for everyone to use, more power to them. They should get a medal. And honestly, if you'd asked Genadi in 2012 if he'd let his be freeware, he would have. After everything that has gone on since them, I'm not the least bit surprised by this reaction.

I put the real juicy bits in bold, this post has some decent arguments, but then the rest reads like a Bray Wyatt promo, and #2 on the list of items really chaps my ass, mainly the last half, the audacity to insist that a mod "fails" when the people who like it don't kiss your feet and worship it like a god just goes to show how no one either in the group or affiliated knows how modding works. Even if he didn't mean for it to read like that, its still so stupid to try and say that you know all and the "final product" (which in modding never truly happens, there is always something you could work on guaranteed) is perfect is just moronic) I once did some mods for a game called Hearts of Iron 2, a strategy game with no editors, no tables to cheat off us, me and several others had to work tirelessly and effortless to research historical figures most people have literally never heard about in 60 years, and what did we get, some people played it, and then nothing. Was it our faults for not going the extra mile and putting in that little 110%, no, it was the fans of course, its not like they helped to contribute and play it, no, we only did it for king and country, give me a break.

 

Modding is hard, but so is life, I really hope the EWB mega modding faction pulls through and so do more people on all forums to go on to create fun fantasy wrestling nerd simulators.

 

TD;DR ModSquad went from me seeing them as good mod makers and nothing more to being EA without the loot boxes. Lets all make better mods

[Rocky]

Never heard of the mod squad or this Genadi bloke. Then again, I’m not even sure if I’ve used GDS. In saying that, I’ll look at picking up TEW16 and try get a grasp of the game so I may be of some help in the little collab. I feel I need to put more into the actual site in some manner.

[=BK=]

Quote

Was the goal to populate the forum with 15 copies of every mod where people made like 5-50 minor stat changes and uploaded them instead of just keeping them for themselves as they do now?

This is pants on head stupid. EWR has been around for ages with all sorts of awesome mods dropping and this has never happened so why would it happen with the new game that less people will have access too? Dudes like Bill and MKPunk have been putting out the monthly updates and the only people that edit and release them again do things like overhauling the set for British and Japanese play and splitting WWE brands into different promotions for easier play of just one of those brands. The historical mods get rereleased when people decide to put the work in and completely fixing all the wonky stats and contract mistakes. Mod making is done in service to the community and anyone trying to lock down their mods like this is hilarious. The only person that has any kind of claim to anything made for or by any of these games is Adam. It's his game and his tools. He just lets people have the privilege to mod for it should they feel like it. If you don't like it then that's just too bad for you.

[Lineker]

Sounds like Genadi et al need to get outside a bit more, tbh