The Mafia Discussion Thread

[SeanDMan]

The problem with lynching lurkers is that scum will do the bare minimum to not get fingered as a lurker. When you finger them, invariably they will note that Missing Townie Number Five has posted far less and since we don't have enough active players for mods to bother with replacements, scum member gets a free pass, Townie Number Five dies, and the game continues to grind to a halt.

[oldskool]

Unless you finger Townie Number Five instead and they note that Inactive Scumbag Numero Dos has posted far less, in which case it's the townie getting the free pass & the scumbag dying.

Honestly I think the big issue is day starts. Yeah it sucks that somebody dies night zero without getting to play but if it means day one can begin serious play instead of everybody walking on eggshells because anything's better than nothing when the bandwagon comes to town then it's a sacrifice we should be willing to make.

[SeanDMan]

Except that when scum are inactive in games, they're lurking. When townies are inactive in games, it's because they're ADHD and they no longer care because they don't have a power role.

[oldskool]

Clearly the solution is for everyone to take a page from my book and give everybody some role quirk, regardless of how many PMs you have to wait for each night period.

[Ruki]

I already do that.

[Gongsun Zan]

So do I.

Looking at GRIMDARK, pretty much all the late game players were scum or lurkers.

[naiwf]

So to take this discussion outsome of a mafia thread, so it's not clogged up. OldSkool and I seem to have the same belief that actually playing the game properly really increases your chance of being lynched; while inactive people seem to survive the longest and avoid suspicion for longest.

That's why I stopped playing. If I couldn't save myself from getting night killed immediately, I was never going to get to the point of being useful to anyone and having to drag vanilla town lurkers through a game by their teeth is about as boring a thing as I can recall with Power Rangers Mafia being my perfect example.

Unless the vast majority of townies consider a TOWN win to be a win, you'll never have great games any more. I've been in more than enough games where vanillas would rather screw the town and survive another day than be useful and "take one for the team".

[DMN in the House]

Strangely, despite my debates (they weren't really arguments, at least from my end) with Split, I pretty much agree with EVERYONE who has weighed in on this subject.

Yes, it's fucked that people can lurk all game, and make it to end game. It's even worse that people can not even pay attention to the game and make it to end game. At least scum use it as a viable tactic.

I still contend that it's in the town's best interest to lynch active players. You can't learn much from lynching someone who hasn't posted. No one will defend them, and it ends in a bandwagon.

Sean is pretty much right. If we begin lynching lurkers, we won't hit scum, because they'll do just enough to not be a lurker. You'll lynch townies that have given up on the game.

I also agree with naiwf. The survivor list is actually counterproductive. Any group wins as a team. Town, scum, or cult, surviving is not the objective, WINNING is. If we got rid of the 'survive' mentality, and applauded team wins (starting a list of what group won what game would be a start, as would ending the practice of listing just the survivors as 'winners' at the end of the game), you might see more activity. People have it too ingrained in their mind that surviving means playing well, and it's quite the opposite.

As for games being too large, I agree. What's funny about the argument that it will lead to the same players in every game is that it's ALREADY the same player in every game. Smaller games, and ending 'first come, first serve' would help games. Maybe make every fourth game a 'newbie' mafia, where the vets don't play, to help foster activity for the newer players when they don't have to fear getting yelled at by someone who will take their attempt to find their play style and spin it all to hell.

I'd also welcome a return of Traditional mafia. Play has been getting better, but some Traditional games might help people get the rust off.

[oldskool]

Nobody cares about team wins if you aren't alive at the end, though.

Wins need to be tied to activity, we need an MVP listing. If you tie wins to being alive and on the winning side everybody plays to not die. If you tie it to just being on the winning side regardless of whether you're alive, you end up giving away a massive amount of +1 wins every time the town wins, including to people lynched for shitty town play and those nightkilled early who never had a chance to contribute (mind you there's something to be said for being considered so threatening as to warrant immediate removal, but that should be a separate listing people can take solace in as nobody's actively trying to get on that one).

[Gongsun Zan]

Let the game runner pick out MVPs for each game, and make a list from that?

Also, I'm in favor of scrapping the entire survival list. Seriously, GoGo barely plays in the games he's in, and Ace just signs up for every mafia anyway.

[MalaCloudy Black]

Ace, you really need a new lie when you're scum >_>

[Ace]

I wasn't lying. Mostly. My net was down yesterday.

And seriously, I was doing perfectly fine this time I thiought. I was posting enough to avoid inactivity lynch, but not enough to raise suspicions. It just took RW slowing down a lynch for days to get me caught

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

"not enough to raise suspicions"? Any good scum is right out at the forefront of posting, leading the town down the wrong path.

You know, the way I am in both games I'm alive in right now.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Basically what I'm trying to say is, if your mafia gameplan rests on "stay back and hope nobody notices me", you're not gonna get too far.

[Plubby]

A tactic I innovated back in that mafia when OH GOD ESSA I HATE YOU SO MUCH

[naiwf]

Nobody cares about team wins if you aren't alive at the end, though.

Wins need to be tied to activity, we need an MVP listing. If you tie wins to being alive and on the winning side everybody plays to not die. If you tie it to just being on the winning side regardless of whether you're alive, you end up giving away a massive amount of +1 wins every time the town wins, including to people lynched for shitty town play and those nightkilled early who never had a chance to contribute (mind you there's something to be said for being considered so threatening as to warrant immediate removal, but that should be a separate listing people can take solace in as nobody's actively trying to get on that one).

That could work. If someone cares enough to run a game they could easily name the person or people they feel contributed the most to the victory as opposed to simply the survivors. It could end up being just one person, or a group of players that outed scum or simply led the town to their doom. Honestly someone outing two scum and dying early did more to secure the victory for his side than someone who did fuck all but posed no threat to the mafia and got carried to a victory. Reward the active person with an MVP, deny the lurker his win and I think people would be likely to make an effort.

[R.W.]

Last September I started work on a different standings table, using the below criteria for scoring:

6 points for being named Game MVP (if mentioned by the GM)

5 points for an Individual Win

4 points for being named Town MVP / Scum MVP (if mentioned by the GM)

3 points for a Mafia Win & Survival / Town Win & Survival

2 points for a Mafia Win, but killed

1 point for a Town Win, but killed

I'm going to put up a thread today and go through each completed game and add the results in - but my question is related to the scoring - general consensus on it?

[R.W.]

Maybe separate scores for being lynched and being nightkilled?

[SeanDMan]

Individual/SK win should easily be 6 points as well as MVP. The problem might be that there will be a lot of crosssover because if one guy can go all the way, he obviously played great.

Maybe a seperate stat for people who got conditional wins as past of their role?

[C-MIL]

Would being town MVP and game MVP be worth 9 points or just 5?

Because 9 seems way, way too much. It's rare you'll see somebody play nine times better than another player...