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They've shown McGann before though.

I don't think they've shown much footage of the actual movie he's in though have they?

No, and that probably is a rights issue. We've seen stills of him a few times.

And Benji;

Moffat has confirmed that Hurt is a previously unseen Doctor, and that Matt Smith is now the 12th. I'd guess that he falls somewhere between McCann and Ecclestone, and was the Doctor that fought in the Time War. Which also ties in to Dorium's claim that Trenzalore will see "The Fall Of The Eleventh" - if Matt is no longer the 11th, Tennant is.

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I haven't seen any of the old Who and only started since the reboot but as Skummy noted am i right in thinking The Time War did not happen at the VERY start of the procedural? As in The Doctor went off on adventures prior to The Time War happening?

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The Time War, basically, happened after the 1996 film, but before the "new" Doctor Who series started. It basically exists as a giant deus ex machina.

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I haven't seen any of the old Who and only started since the reboot but as Skummy noted am i right in thinking The Time War did not happen at the VERY start of the procedural? As in The Doctor went off on adventures prior to The Time War happening?

Yeah the Last Great Time War is meant to have happened between Old Who and New Who. Part of the reason 9 was so intense and more gun happy than previous Doctors was because he was either the one who endured the Time War or the very next regeneration after it and such is still heavily scarred by it.

It's also why he couldn't fire that weapon during The Parting of the Ways, he (or his previous regeneration) had done such a thing during the Time War and couldn't bring himself to do it again.

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Ah i see. I always thought it happened prior to the whole series starting and thats how he got the TARDIS as thats how he escaped. Thanks for clearing it up

No he just got bored of watching stuff happen he wanted to get involved, at the time he left, the Time Lords would just observe what other cultures did mainly trying to make sure nobody abused time travel which is how the Time War started since the Daleks were using a crude time travel tecniques not to mention what they were doing with it forced them to get involved.

For those not a custom to Bablecolour on YouTube he did a hype for a Time War episode/series.

And a sample of the RiffTrax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eeh-ZheFnY

Edited by TheWho87
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The Time War, basically, happened after the 1996 film, but before the "new" Doctor Who series started. It basically exists as a giant deus ex machina.

umm.....

You meant plot device, I think. The sonic screwdriver is the giant deus ex machina, not the Time War.

Meant to ask: When they showed the older Doctors passing by Clara and whatnot, when did they show the 3rd and 7th? I noticed all the others, but missed them.

And you know what? The way they used them like that now really has me pissed off that they're not using any of the classic Doctors in the 50th Anniversary Special. I want them to at least bring in Tom Baker eventually, even if its just for a cameo where he only speaks one of two lines, since there's no way he'll be in any condition to appear if he's still alive when they get to the 75th. Its a damned crime since he's the most popular Doctor.

Edited by GhostMachine
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No, I mean deus ex machina. Throughout RTD's run, "Time War" was the go-to explanation for plotholes and inconsistencies, particularly anything that contradicted the classic series.

The problem with using classic Doctors for the anniversary is that very few of them are in any fit physical state to appear, and it would take some serious timey-wimey explaining to justify why the 4th Doctor is 32 years older and twice the size he was when he regenerated.

It would also be a hell of a clusterfuck trying to fit them all in - though, admittedly, the episode being set "inside the Doctor's timeline" would go someway to allow that.

More;

Apparently Ingrid Oliver, whoever she is, will be in the 50th Anniversary episode, and was photographed wearing the 4th Doctor's scarf, so he will quite likely be represented in some form or another.

Personally, I'm still hoping that Moffat has kept some big secret well under wraps, and that someone unexpected will appear, but who knows? As much as it would be fantastic to feature all the classic Doctors, it's probably more appropriate to feature them in archive footage than to see a frail old Tom Baker and Sylvester McCoy chewing scenery. That said, even a brief glimpse, or a couple of new lines of dialogue from Tom Baker would be wonderful.

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The problem with using classic Doctors for the anniversary is that very few of them are in any fit physical state to appear, and it would take some serious timey-wimey explaining to justify why the 4th Doctor is 32 years older and twice the size he was when he regenerated.

It would also be a hell of a clusterfuck trying to fit them all in - though, admittedly, the episode being set "inside the Doctor's timeline" would go someway to allow that.

I disagree with both of those sentiments. Firstly Moffat worked with the whole Doctors not looking like they did before thing in the Children in Need sketch he wrote involving 5 and 10. It took one funny line. That's all it takes now. Which brings me to the 'clusterfuck' bit. Sometimes you want Who to be a really good television show. Sometimes it lives up to that and sometimes it doesn't. Most of the time I just want Who to be silly fun, because really, that's what it does best. RTD brought in some good undercurrents of real questions about faith, politics, war and so on but I don't really want any of that for the anniversary special, and I don't fully get why other people do. Bollocks to worrying about logic or not being a clusterfuck, I want silliness, old Doctors and a fun romp. You don't need to do a dark, seriously good, gritty story. Its the fiftieth, I genuinely think most of the audience probably won't want despair, or sadness, or particularly intelligence or scares, I think most people will just want to see the old Doctors communicate with the new Doctors and run around after a silly monster. The beauty of Who is similar to the beauty of the old James Bond movies, it doesn't need to take itself seriously all the time because it does something equally as important very well, which is being fun and comforting.

Besides, given the amount of things Moffat hasn't bothered to explain I don't remotely see why "how would you explain the old Doctors looking different" is remotely a thing to be concerned about. They could just do Matt Smith waving the sonic around and accidently breaking a timey wimey distortion filter which makes it look like the old Doctors are passing through a Time Lord version of a hall of mirrors and so they appear differently to the way they did before. It doesn't matter. It mostly doesn't matter because nobody would really care once the episode starts and Tom Baker's Doctor offers Ten a Jelly Baby and he turns it down to have a mournful reminiscence about how he used Jelly Babies in the Time War to make a bomb, yadda, yadda. Moffat's a great writer, he can (see: he already has) easily write his way out of the older appearance of the Doctors. Because the audience watching it would probably want to look past it. They'll take any reason. I fact I can do it now. "It's Timey Wimey." There, done. Now let's have that clusterfuck with birthday cake!

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The problem with using classic Doctors for the anniversary is that very few of them are in any fit physical state to appear, and it would take some serious timey-wimey explaining to justify why the 4th Doctor is 32 years older and twice the size he was when he regenerated.

It would also be a hell of a clusterfuck trying to fit them all in - though, admittedly, the episode being set "inside the Doctor's timeline" would go someway to allow that.

I disagree with both of those sentiments. Firstly Moffat worked with the whole Doctors not looking like they did before thing in the Children in Need sketch he wrote involving 5 and 10. It took one funny line. That's all it takes now. Which brings me to the 'clusterfuck' bit. Sometimes you want Who to be a really good television show. Sometimes it lives up to that and sometimes it doesn't. Most of the time I just want Who to be silly fun, because really, that's what it does best. RTD brought in some good undercurrents of real questions about faith, politics, war and so on but I don't really want any of that for the anniversary special, and I don't fully get why other people do. Bollocks to worrying about logic or not being a clusterfuck, I want silliness, old Doctors and a fun romp. You don't need to do a dark, seriously good, gritty story. Its the fiftieth, I genuinely think most of the audience probably won't want despair, or sadness, or particularly intelligence or scares, I think most people will just want to see the old Doctors communicate with the new Doctors and run around after a silly monster. The beauty of Who is similar to the beauty of the old James Bond movies, it doesn't need to take itself seriously all the time because it does something equally as important very well, which is being fun and comforting.

Besides, given the amount of things Moffat hasn't bothered to explain I don't remotely see why "how would you explain the old Doctors looking different" is remotely a thing to be concerned about. They could just do Matt Smith waving the sonic around and accidently breaking a timey wimey distortion filter which makes it look like the old Doctors are passing through a Time Lord version of a hall of mirrors and so they appear differently to the way they did before. It doesn't matter. It mostly doesn't matter because nobody would really care once the episode starts and Tom Baker's Doctor offers Ten a Jelly Baby and he turns it down to have a mournful reminiscence about how he used Jelly Babies in the Time War to make a bomb, yadda, yadda. Moffat's a great writer, he can (see: he already has) easily write his way out of the older appearance of the Doctors. Because the audience watching it would probably want to look past it. They'll take any reason. I fact I can do it now. "It's Timey Wimey." There, done. Now let's have that clusterfuck with birthday cake!

A-fucking-men!!!

I'd also like to point out that they didn't even bother to mention the obvious aging of 2 and 3 in The Five Doctors, and I don't believe they did it for 2 in The Two Doctors, either.

If you need to justify acknowleding it, to satisfy anyone anal out there, simple: Whatever pulls most of the past Doctors through time to bring them all together has the side effect of aging them temporarily. At the end, you restore them to their proper places in time and they return to normal.

Edited by GhostMachine
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The problem with using classic Doctors for the anniversary is that very few of them are in any fit physical state to appear, and it would take some serious timey-wimey explaining to justify why the 4th Doctor is 32 years older and twice the size he was when he regenerated.

It would also be a hell of a clusterfuck trying to fit them all in - though, admittedly, the episode being set "inside the Doctor's timeline" would go someway to allow that.

I disagree with both of those sentiments. Firstly Moffat worked with the whole Doctors not looking like they did before thing in the Children in Need sketch he wrote involving 5 and 10. It took one funny line. That's all it takes now. Which brings me to the 'clusterfuck' bit. Sometimes you want Who to be a really good television show. Sometimes it lives up to that and sometimes it doesn't. Most of the time I just want Who to be silly fun, because really, that's what it does best. RTD brought in some good undercurrents of real questions about faith, politics, war and so on but I don't really want any of that for the anniversary special, and I don't fully get why other people do. Bollocks to worrying about logic or not being a clusterfuck, I want silliness, old Doctors and a fun romp. You don't need to do a dark, seriously good, gritty story. Its the fiftieth, I genuinely think most of the audience probably won't want despair, or sadness, or particularly intelligence or scares, I think most people will just want to see the old Doctors communicate with the new Doctors and run around after a silly monster. The beauty of Who is similar to the beauty of the old James Bond movies, it doesn't need to take itself seriously all the time because it does something equally as important very well, which is being fun and comforting.

Besides, given the amount of things Moffat hasn't bothered to explain I don't remotely see why "how would you explain the old Doctors looking different" is remotely a thing to be concerned about. They could just do Matt Smith waving the sonic around and accidently breaking a timey wimey distortion filter which makes it look like the old Doctors are passing through a Time Lord version of a hall of mirrors and so they appear differently to the way they did before. It doesn't matter. It mostly doesn't matter because nobody would really care once the episode starts and Tom Baker's Doctor offers Ten a Jelly Baby and he turns it down to have a mournful reminiscence about how he used Jelly Babies in the Time War to make a bomb, yadda, yadda. Moffat's a great writer, he can (see: he already has) easily write his way out of the older appearance of the Doctors. Because the audience watching it would probably want to look past it. They'll take any reason. I fact I can do it now. "It's Timey Wimey." There, done. Now let's have that clusterfuck with birthday cake!

There is a difference between Peter Davidson looking a bit older but otherwise not much different once in costume and some makeup, and Colin Baker who now looks like he ate three other Colin Bakers.

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I'm not suggesting that the 50th Anniversary needs to be deadly serious, more that - as well as an anniversary special - it's still part of an ongoing series, and still needs to tell a coherent story within forty-five minutes, or however long it will be. Trying to squeeze in six or seven additional cameos, plus potential archive footage of the first two Doctors, and squeezing in other iconic Doctor Who bits like the Daleks, and you're left with a confused, overly busy mess. The episode needs to look forward just as much as it looks to the past.

As for Big Vision; there is an anniversary audio drama coming out, starring all surviving "classic" Doctors.

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