AMC's "The Walking Dead"

[Your Mom]

I don't get people "calling it". Do I just not look deep enough or something?

[Benji]

... fuck. That was the best moral dilema TWD has done in it's entire series run.

4A was awful, but 4B has been a hot streak of great episodes. When they get down to personal stories rather than group survival bullshit is when this show shines. Dreading them reaching Terminus.

[Noah]

Speaking of the moral dilema...

Was I the only one not that affected emotionally by Carol shooting Lizzie? I know she's a child and I know she's fucked up to a point where she'd be judged mentally disturbed but I had no problems with her being executed. I mean obviously I felt really bad for Carol but at no point was I crying "Noooo she's just a kid!" I get that vibe she'd possibly grow up to be a serial killer in a normal world. Even with my personal feelings aside, I know it's something they had to do. It's not like how Rick let Carol leave would have worked with Lizzie and yeah, there was no way they could take her with them. In summary, poor Mika

[TKz]

Speaking of the moral dilema...

Was I the only one not that affected emotionally by Carol shooting Lizzie? I know she's a child and I know she's fucked up to a point where she'd be judged mentally disturbed but I had no problems with her being executed. I mean obviously I felt really bad for Carol but at no point was I crying "Noooo she's just a kid!" I get that vibe she'd possibly grow up to be a serial killer in a normal world. Even with my personal feelings aside, I know it's something they had to do. It's not like how Rick let Carol leave would have worked with Lizzie and yeah, there was no way they could take her with them. In summary, poor Mika

Nah, I had the same feeling. There was no out for Lizzie after what she'd proven she was capable of doing. I felt bad for the younger girl, but I was kind of calling for Lizzie to go away for a while now. Again though, I think it plays to how little I've been given a reason to care about her. If we'd got to know her past "hey, she's a tiny serial-killer in the making!", it might have hit home harder. But we didn't, so it was just kind of a case of "man, they need to do something about this kid". Mika brought out a few more feels because despite having even less of a character, she was a cute lil' kid that hadn't been established as batshit crazy.

I'm not sure it's a moral dilema outside of how horrible killing a kid is, but what else could she do?

[Benji]

I think that was kind of the point, Carol actually said something of the lines of her already being like that, and implying that it was just this world that had brought it out in her. I did feel bad for Lizzie, because she's just a kid and she's been through a lot, and somehow in her own twisted and fucked up way she retained her innocence whilst also being a terrifying psychopath. She still saw the humanity in the walkers, something which Carol no longer saw in this fragile human girl. I'm not sure I could have killed her, in some ways I kind of hoped they'd just abandon her, but that could've been even crueler.

The entire moral dilema was incredibly well done, there was no right answer to it - one might have been the safer option, but that doesn't make it any more right when it rests on your shoulders every day for the rest of your life. Carol is going to have some real trauma by the time this season is over, and I'm not at all convinced her struggle with this decision is going to be over quickly.

[I Don't Mind]

I liked The Grove, but it made me miss the other characters who I was more invested in. I did find this scene funny though:

When everyone is talking about Huck Finn and which characters they represent, I was so sure Tyrese would have to point out he's Nigger JIm. Of Mice and Men ending was brutal though. Felt really bad watching Lizzy cry

[Your Mom]

I think they said missing the characters was the point. Like they didn't do episodes with a little bit of everyone because they want to show just how separated everyone is and how horrible that is. Something they pointed out on Talking Dead which I hadn't realized is that this was the third straight episode without Rick in it. That's crazy! I mean it's good but he's the main character and you haven't seen him in like a month.

[MalaCloudy Black]

Yeah, the point of 4B is to show how fractured and separated the group's become. Also, wasn't there a pretty long stretch of time in the books without Rick or Carl? I could be misremembering, though.

[Thrilla]

Had I completely missed any previous reference to Lizzie being told to look at the flowers and count? When Mika pointed it out, it just seemed really shoehorned in to give Carol something to say before the end of the episode.

[Benji]

RE Thrilla:

Yeah, she did it in another episode in 4A, but it wasn't something I remembered until someone elsewhere mentioned it.

[MalaCloudy Black]

You did! Apparently! I guess! I only started watching again here in season 4B, so I missed it too. Yvette Nicole Brown was on Talking Dead and she said she went back and rewatched the first part of the season and saw count to 3/look at the flowers thing in an earlier episode.

[HailtotheYo]

I don't get people "calling it". Do I just not look deep enough or something?

Well, it was pretty obvious something was wrong with Lizzie (as in, actually wrong) last season (or 4A) .... with the 'teaser' for this episode and that put together i just pieced it together after the first couple of scenes.

[Your Mom]

I don't get people "calling it". Do I just not look deep enough or something?

Well, it was pretty obvious something was wrong with Lizzie (as in, actually wrong) last season (or 4A) .... with the 'teaser' for this episode and that put together i just pieced it together after the first couple of scenes.

Well yeah it was obvious she was off, but I don't get being able to call any of the big happenings from this episode. I thought if anything

Lizzie wanted to become a walker so she could play with them all day not that she wanted to make everyone else walkers

[HailtotheYo]

Lizzie wanted to become a walker so she could play with them all day not that she wanted to make everyone else walkers

I thought that at first, but it was her wanting to show them that got me to trigger ....

[Tits McGee]

It was easy to see if you have read the comic and know about Ben/Billy.

Why is no one else bringing up that there were 3 graves?

[Johnny Latino Heat]

It was easy to see if you have read the comic and know about Ben/Billy.

Why is no one else bringing up that there were 3 graves?

Wasn't there already a grave at the house? I seem to remember Lizzie and Mica looking at it when Carol and Tyreese were checking the house for walkers. It makes sense that they put the other graves next to the already existing one.

[Nerf]

Holy fucking Jesus, that was brutal.

[HailtotheYo]

It was easy to see if you have read the comic and know about Ben/Billy.

Why is no one else bringing up that there were 3 graves?

Wasn't there already a grave at the house? I seem to remember Lizzie and Mica looking at it when Carol and Tyreese were checking the house for walkers. It makes sense that they put the other graves next to the already existing one.

Yes there was ... it had baby shoes on it

[Colly]

Speaking of the moral dilema...

Was I the only one not that affected emotionally by Carol shooting Lizzie? I know she's a child and I know she's fucked up to a point where she'd be judged mentally disturbed but I had no problems with her being executed. I mean obviously I felt really bad for Carol but at no point was I crying "Noooo she's just a kid!" I get that vibe she'd possibly grow up to be a serial killer in a normal world. Even with my personal feelings aside, I know it's something they had to do. It's not like how Rick let Carol leave would have worked with Lizzie and yeah, there was no way they could take her with them. In summary, poor Mika

Nah, I had the same feeling. There was no out for Lizzie after what she'd proven she was capable of doing. I felt bad for the younger girl, but I was kind of calling for Lizzie to go away for a while now. Again though, I think it plays to how little I've been given a reason to care about her. If we'd got to know her past "hey, she's a tiny serial-killer in the making!", it might have hit home harder. But we didn't, so it was just kind of a case of "man, they need to do something about this kid". Mika brought out a few more feels because despite having even less of a character, she was a cute lil' kid that hadn't been established as batshit crazy.

I'm not sure it's a moral dilema outside of how horrible killing a kid is, but what else could she do?

Speaking as someone who'd got so annoyed with her I wanted the walker she was messing with to get her, I still can't see how you can be emotionally unaffected by the shooting of a child. In the context of the show it was unquestionably the right decision, but they made it clear that only Carol was prepared to do it, and the revelation that she could was what led to her confessing to Tyreese.

Great episode, and Srar absolutely echoed my wifes feelings of 'that was rough'.

[TKz]

Speaking of the moral dilema...

Was I the only one not that affected emotionally by Carol shooting Lizzie? I know she's a child and I know she's fucked up to a point where she'd be judged mentally disturbed but I had no problems with her being executed. I mean obviously I felt really bad for Carol but at no point was I crying "Noooo she's just a kid!" I get that vibe she'd possibly grow up to be a serial killer in a normal world. Even with my personal feelings aside, I know it's something they had to do. It's not like how Rick let Carol leave would have worked with Lizzie and yeah, there was no way they could take her with them. In summary, poor Mika

Nah, I had the same feeling. There was no out for Lizzie after what she'd proven she was capable of doing. I felt bad for the younger girl, but I was kind of calling for Lizzie to go away for a while now. Again though, I think it plays to how little I've been given a reason to care about her. If we'd got to know her past "hey, she's a tiny serial-killer in the making!", it might have hit home harder. But we didn't, so it was just kind of a case of "man, they need to do something about this kid". Mika brought out a few more feels because despite having even less of a character, she was a cute lil' kid that hadn't been established as batshit crazy.

I'm not sure it's a moral dilema outside of how horrible killing a kid is, but what else could she do?

Speaking as someone who'd got so annoyed with her I wanted the walker she was messing with to get her,

I still can't see how you can be emotionally unaffected by the shooting of a child. In the context of the show it was unquestionably the right decision, but they made it clear that only Carol was prepared to do it, and the revelation that she could was what led to her confessing to Tyreese.

Great episode, and Srar absolutely echoed my wifes feelings of 'that was rough'.

Because it's a television show. And though I like the show, it's not well enough written that I can't look past it as just another plot device. I'm just not invested enough for it to affect me.