Guest Owned by Quickquid Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Is it really greed that you don't want to continue a project that will almost certainly result in a loss? Stopping it was financially a loss too due to marketing expense and such. The simplest solution would have been to say "OK, Jon doesn't want to fight Chael, whatever, that's his business. We promised you guys a show, and since it wouldn't be fair to make you pay $50 for this one on PPV now, we'll give it you for free on TV." And give the arena ticket-holders partial refunds, in line with what would normally be charged for a lower-quality card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Yay! I can post again. I am now moving away from the Jon Jones/UFC 151 blame game with a simple... If you think Jones is the devil and deserves to be punished, hit him where it hurts, don't buy 152, and he will not get the additional money due to him via his share of PPV revenue. He has said in the past he fights for money. That being said, I will be watching the card, and I still want to watch Jones fight, no matter what I believe about the way he has conducted himself. Let's move past this, and we can then consider other things going on in the world of the UFC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymbols Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Yay! I can post again. I am now moving away from the Jon Jones/UFC 151 blame game with a simple... If you think Jones is the devil and deserves to be punished, hit him where it hurts, don't buy 152, and he will not get the additional money due to him via his share of PPV revenue. He has said in the past he fights for money. That being said, I will be watching the card, and I still want to watch Jones fight, no matter what I believe about the way he has conducted himself. Let's move past this, and we can then consider other things going on in the world of the UFC... Matt Hamill (certified Jon Jones beater ) is back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Certainly a rematch with The Hammer is in order to determine the true GOAT of the UFC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolleje Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 What kind of a fucking world do we live in when people only do shit out of obligation?! Go the extra mile for someone. Try operating in karma/effort surplus, not debt. Fuck that attitude and fuck the jaded cunts who carry it on. (It should be noted that I feel Quom is arguing that this is what Jones' camp feels and it is not indicative of how Quom feels. I do not count Quom among these people, but it would seem I do Greg Jackson and whoever else advised Jones to take this course of action. I truly believe that Jones' natural instinct would be to take the fight, so I also don't yet count him among them.) I know it's a meme and everything, but this is literally why we can't have nice things. Because no one will do them unless they feel like they have to. So what you are saying is that Jon Jones should have risked his championship, a good portion of his career, and, well... his overal health, because once in a while you need to 'take one for the team'? Sorry, but in 'fighting' that's ridiculous. If Jon Jones finds it dangerous to go into a fight with Chael Sonnen unprepared, then Jon Jones should have at least the right to choose not to fight. We're not Rome and Jon Jones is not Spartacus. I don't blame anyone really for the UFC 151 failure, but I do blame Dana White for some of the worst communication in history. Like I mentioned some posts before, he could've made it for UFC, himself and Jon Jones a LOT easier by just explaining the situation as it is (or even not mention some things). "Dan Henderson is injured so that match is off, we couldn't find a worthy replacement (let's face it... Sonnen wasn't even one) in that short of a period so unfortunately we cancelled the event. I hope you fans understand it, we hope this never happens again, but some things can't be foreseen.". That would have still left the UFC with the money loss from UFC 151, but at least it wouldn't have led to this whole blaming game (and wouldn't have turned a lot of fans away from your top star.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 What kind of a fucking world do we live in when people only do shit out of obligation?! Go the extra mile for someone. Try operating in karma/effort surplus, not debt. Fuck that attitude and fuck the jaded cunts who carry it on. (It should be noted that I feel Quom is arguing that this is what Jones' camp feels and it is not indicative of how Quom feels. I do not count Quom among these people, but it would seem I do Greg Jackson and whoever else advised Jones to take this course of action. I truly believe that Jones' natural instinct would be to take the fight, so I also don't yet count him among them.) I know it's a meme and everything, but this is literally why we can't have nice things. Because no one will do them unless they feel like they have to. So what you are saying is that Jon Jones should have risked his championship, a good portion of his career, and, well... his overal health, because once in a while you need to 'take one for the team'? Sorry, but in 'fighting' that's ridiculous. If Jon Jones finds it dangerous to go into a fight with Chael Sonnen unprepared, then Jon Jones should have at least the right to choose not to fight. We're not Rome and Jon Jones is not Spartacus. I don't blame anyone really for the UFC 151 failure, but I do blame Dana White for some of the worst communication in history. Like I mentioned some posts before, he could've made it for UFC, himself and Jon Jones a LOT easier by just explaining the situation as it is (or even not mention some things). "Dan Henderson is injured so that match is off, we couldn't find a worthy replacement (let's face it... Sonnen wasn't even one) in that short of a period so unfortunately we cancelled the event. I hope you fans understand it, we hope this never happens again, but some things can't be foreseen.". That would have still left the UFC with the money loss from UFC 151, but at least it wouldn't have led to this whole blaming game (and wouldn't have turned a lot of fans away from your top star.). Why have people turned away from Anderson Silva/GSP over this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolleje Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Why have people turned away from Anderson Silva/GSP over this? Because Jones destroyed a couple of future Hall of Famers in a row? :-) No, I agree... Silva & GSP are at least at the same level as Jones, maybe higher. I should have written 'one of your top stars'. My bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naiwf Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Jon Jones is a piece of shit, bottom line. Not only did he take money out of the pockets of every single fighter on that card, but he also took time, money and enjoyment away from fans who would've booked flights, hotels, time off work, etc. to go see a UFC card. It's reprehensible and I seriously can't believe that he'd do something like that. Regardless of the fact that it's short notice, it's been mentioned a million times over that he is a world champion - well prepared versus someone who got called in at the last second. He is supposed to be the best of the best, and regardless of winning, losing - he is paid to go in there and fight. There's no excuse for this bullshit. There's no defending this. He's paid to go in there and fight the guy he's scheduled to fight. He's not paid to fight someone he hasn't prepared for, regardless of why the fight was changed. It's not like he's getting a check because he was ready and Henderson got hurt. This notion that he had to do it for the fans is laughable. NO athlete cares more about the fans more than they do the paycheck, which is why none of them play for free. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRN Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 I can't believe you are missing the bigger issue here; no Siver spinning kicks and his fight hasn't been rescheduled yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 To be fair, Colly's point stands. It would be nice if we lived in the world were we all went the extra mile just for the sake of being good people, but unfortunately it is just window dressing. It makes Jon Jones a prick but it doesn't make him responsible. Other than that I agree with this: Let's move past this, and we can then consider other things going on in the world of the UFC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Okay, um, Chad Mended was charged with battery? Edited August 28, 2012 by Ben D.D. Cuntface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Okay, um, Chad Mended was charged with battery? Wow! Chad Mendes was too! What are the odds?! But that aside, its always difficult when martial artists get in to fights, as essentially the courts will see them as trained weapons and as a result the impetus is put on them to not react and use their training. It sounds like Chad did react to something poorly (especially with the whole, punched the guy and then fled) and as a result is in a bit of trouble, I hope this doesn't go much further as I like Chad and would like to see him fight back up to contendership at 145. But if he is guilty then I think he can get 6 to 12 months in prison, correct me if I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnar hendershow Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Is there a real body of precedent right now with trained fighters as being trained weapons? I mean it obviously evolves from the argument that a football tackle was not battery but a streetfight was due to the difference in the sanctioning of the sporting activities. But since MMA is not a sanctioned sport, one has to wonder where outside conflict falls. Obviously punching is still punching, it's an assault charge at least no matter what if someone wishes to pursue it that far. And in Chad's case he can be charged with the legal definition of battery regardless. However it's an interesting discussion to bring up for the future. For example, if two people are fighting and a low level MMA fighter tries to pull them apart, but in order to do so he pulls the one person away very forcefully? That, in the now antiquated definition in the US, is battery as it is the unwarranted touching of another. We have moved beyond that to courts not looking at something of that nature with any sort of attention. But if an trained fighter did it, that would be interesting to see how the court tries to approach it. The plaitiff has a lot of arguments based in law, and there is the whole "trained weapons" notion going around. It would be a seminal trial were it to happen to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Is there a real body of precedent right now with trained fighters as being trained weapons? I mean it obviously evolves from the argument that a football tackle was not battery but a streetfight was due to the difference in the sanctioning of the sporting activities. But since MMA is not a sanctioned sport, one has to wonder where outside conflict falls. Obviously punching is still punching, it's an assault charge at least no matter what if someone wishes to pursue it that far. And in Chad's case he can be charged with the legal definition of battery regardless. However it's an interesting discussion to bring up for the future. For example, if two people are fighting and a low level MMA fighter tries to pull them apart, but in order to do so he pulls the one person away very forcefully? That, in the now antiquated definition in the US, is battery as it is the unwarranted touching of another. We have moved beyond that to courts not looking at something of that nature with any sort of attention. But if an trained fighter did it, that would be interesting to see how the court tries to approach it. The plaitiff has a lot of arguments based in law, and there is the whole "trained weapons" notion going around. It would be a seminal trial were it to happen to say the least. Its not really serious enough to be seminal in my opinion, I mean he threw a punch, its not like he really went wild on the other guy. I think there has to be a body of precedent, if people are trained martial artists of any kind, be it boxing, karate, Judo, anything, then they are skilled in using their body to inflict pain on others if the need arises, therefore they have to be considered a weapon, they know the techniques which they are good at and will use them to fight if needs be. I think if you had someone going out there and choking someone unconscious and then keeping the choke on to the point of killing them using a known martial art technique then, yes you would also have to consider that they have trained to that level of knowledge and must be accountable for those actions for which you have specifically trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Eric Koch is injured, so at UFC 153, we get to see Jose Aldo straight up murder Frankie Edgar instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 That's the best MMA news in quite a while. Also, I know it's not UFC, but Arlovski versus Sylvia 4 is tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieG Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Jose Aldo wins by controversial decision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hmmm, I was kinda hoping Korean Zombie would step in for Koch in the event of an injury. But oh well, at least that fight isn't a foregone conclusion any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 That's the best MMA news in quite a while. Also, I know it's not UFC, but Arlovski versus Sylvia 4 is tonight! Actually, it was last night. And it ended with a no contest when Arlovski soccer kicked Sylvia. Soccer kicks are legal in ONE FC but only when the ref says they are and Arlovski didn't ask permission to kick him first. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnar hendershow Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 You'd figure the potential competition for UFC would be smart enough not to have such idiotic rules and regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.