House of the Dragon (Game of Thrones) Thread

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

That's a pretty solid response.

Also, JCB (Do you mind if I call you JCB?)

Given the Targaryen incestuous marriages tradition, I think that gives yet another reason for Dany to exist.

OH SHIT... I just remembered! Three dragons. That means you need three riders. I believe they talk about how a dragon only has one rider it's entire life, though a rider may ride more than one dragon. That means you need Dany, Aegon, and one more, which gives you what is the easiest answer to why you can't get rid of her

Of course, this all ignores the white (undead, frozen) elephant in the room... which is that Dany, Aegon, or anyone else coming to Westeros might not matter, since the soon to be most pressing concern will be winter, and the massive army of white walkers.

Not at all, easier than typing my full username every time haha.

I suppose the incest thing is an argument for keeping her, it does seem to have high importance in some other character's stories.

Also, to quickly look at your last point before your second, I reckon the dragons, or at least one of them, are what slays the White Walkers. Obsidan/Dragonglass being the thing that kills them is obviously going to have some link to the dragons at some stage, otherwise why bother calling it dragonglass, as opposed to just obsidian, at all?

Your 'three dragon' argument is flawed the way you've presented it. Saying that there being three riders means we necessarily need Dany isn't true. Going off other information in the books here, but there's strong foreshadowing in one of Tyrions WoW sample chapters that he'll ride Rhaegal (the one who got wounded) and then it gets difficult to decide. Allow me to speculate (All assuming Dany and Tyrion are the first two riders):

On one hand, the obvious choice would be Aegon VI, but there's a lot of speculation that he's an imposter and has no actual relation to the Targaryens. If true, I don't see Dany trusting him with a dragon once she finds out. If he is for real, which I doubt, then he's a dead cert.

Second choice, playing off R+L=J, gives Jon as a candidate, which I feel has a strong case based off that theory. Especially if he turns out to be Azor Ahai (sp?).

Then there's the curveball of this 'Dragon horn' that Victarion Greyjoy apparently has. If the horn works, then I see no reason he can't be, which is why I went with him as the third rider in my previous theory. Albeit I took that as a plot device to tie up a loose end and give Aegon and crew the impetus to get over to Westeros, I still see it hold some weight if the horn is legit.

Then you have this warning that Quaithe gives Dany:

"Soon comes the pale mare (plague), and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame (Victarion and Morqhurro), lion and griffin (Tyrion and Connington), the sun's son (Quentyn) and the mummer's dragon (Aegon). Trust none of them."

Depending how you look at the quote, It could completely discount the previous candidates I mentioned. We already saw Quentyn try to release the dragons and betray her; Victarion plans to steal them and make her his bride, so I doubt it ends well for him either. We've already seen the plague, which leaves Tyrion as someone she shouldn't trust, along with JonCon and Aegon. That's the part that makes me doubt the legitimacy of his claim. So who the hell knows. For all we know the riders are gonna be Dany, Barristan and Daario (which would suck). It doesn't mention Jon though, which I think gives him more weight.

So to conclude, I reckon the actual riders will end up being Dany, Jon, and Tyrion. HOWEVER, that said, using my alternative storyline, I presented another three (Aegon, Tyrion, and Victarion) which I believe equally possible under the circumstances I suggested.

Ok, after mulling it over, I've decided what my main problem with Dany is - it's Aegon. There didn't need to be a second Targaryen candidate for the throne, so in my opinion there shouldn't be.

I should probably clarify what I mean by that a little, too. With the story as GRRM has written it, there is absolutely no way you can have the story without her. She's been written as a major character and will obviously have some important final say at the end. Her growth throughout the first three books was tremendous, and I was firmly behind it. But I disagree with the way Martin's taken it in DwD - she should be sailing over the sea in preparation for war at Westeros at the end of the book, not dumped back in the Dothraki Sea with characters she was done with in CoK. Knowing Martin, I'm now half-anticipating her to just die in a way no-one expects, much like he did with Robb, purely because it's starting to drag in my opinion. DwD should have been mostly learning to rule in Meereen and dealing with internal conflict, before overcoming it and deciding it's time to take the throne.

So, as an alternative, instead of introducing a second Targaryen, who's ahead of her in the line of succession and is all too convenient and perfectly placed, why not just run the story with him? Rather than randomly appearing over half-way into the series' plot, he becomes a character people care about as the story progresses, and nothing overly dramatic has to change if you just give him the bulk of Dany's story. Viserys was just a pawn in Dany's character growth so isn't needed anyway; and I feel it could still have worked with Aegon as the sole Targaryen candidate.

As another alternative, don't introduce Aegon at all. My main problem is there being two Targaryen candidates; it just isn't needed. There's no reason why Varys can't be working to get Dany on the throne instead of adding in Aegon. No Aegon means no dispute over which Targaryen should really be in charge, and people love the character Dany has become through the books.

[deli]

Ugh at 'that' scene, just as I was getting really into the show as well.

[Cymbols]

Book readers-

R+L=J ?

Also, last nights episode, Pod

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Book readers-

R+L=J ?

Also, last nights episode, Pod

Book Spoilers

R+L=J => Rhaegar Targaryen + Lyanna Stark = Jon Snow.

The theory came about based on the secrecy around Jon's parentage, and the mystery surrounding Lyanna's dying words to Ned. (Or at least, that's my understanding on what it was based on).

The theory implies Jon is a Targaryen bastard, and will likely make him a front-runner for the throne and one of the dragon riders.

[Thrilla]

Re: above, my thought/predictions

Jon being a Targaryen is what will lead people to think he is Azor Ahai reborn, Melisandre will attempt to sacrifice him and he will walk out of the fire unharmed, as fire cannot harm a dragon. Melisandre and co will chose Jon over Stannis leading to Jon and Stannis duelling with Jon winning and killing Stannis. Jon will then defend the wall against the white walkers with Melisandre at his side, as things look their bleakest, Darnys and the dragons arrive to help out. Jon will discover his true lineage and that he is entitled to the throne but will refuse to break his vows and live at and reestablish the wall. One of the dragons will stay at the wall with Jon and he will one day be able to warg with the dragon in the same way that he does the wolf.

[DFF]

Re: above, my thought/predictions

Jon being a Targaryen is what will lead people to think he is Azor Ahai reborn, Melisandre will attempt to sacrifice him and he will walk out of the fire unharmed, as fire cannot harm a dragon. Melisandre and co will chose Jon over Stannis leading to Jon and Stannis duelling with Jon winning and killing Stannis. Jon will then defend the wall against the white walkers with Melisandre at his side, as things look their bleakest, Darnys and the dragons arrive to help out. Jon will discover his true lineage and that he is entitled to the throne but will refuse to break his vows and live at and reestablish the wall. One of the dragons will stay at the wall with Jon and he will one day be able to warg with the dragon in the same way that he does the wolf.

What of Bran and his storyline North of the wall? Do we assume he just becomes a fully fledged Greenseer?

[Thrilla]

Re: above, my thought/predictions

Jon being a Targaryen is what will lead people to think he is Azor Ahai reborn, Melisandre will attempt to sacrifice him and he will walk out of the fire unharmed, as fire cannot harm a dragon. Melisandre and co will chose Jon over Stannis leading to Jon and Stannis duelling with Jon winning and killing Stannis. Jon will then defend the wall against the white walkers with Melisandre at his side, as things look their bleakest, Darnys and the dragons arrive to help out. Jon will discover his true lineage and that he is entitled to the throne but will refuse to break his vows and live at and reestablish the wall. One of the dragons will stay at the wall with Jon and he will one day be able to warg with the dragon in the same way that he does the wolf.

What of Bran and his storyline North of the wall? Do we assume he just becomes a fully fledged Greenseer?

Bran will find out Jon Snow's parentage through greenseeing and contact Jon (Maybe through warging as I imagine he will end up as part human/part tree) and explain it all. This will be collaberated by Howland Reed, when he eventually appears to help with the defence of the Wall.

[Benji]

Keep clicking spoiler tags not thinking about them being book spoilers (not having a go, just my own bad habit). That's a lot of words I don't understand >_<

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Re: above, my thought/predictions

Jon being a Targaryen is what will lead people to think he is Azor Ahai reborn, Melisandre will attempt to sacrifice him and he will walk out of the fire unharmed, as fire cannot harm a dragon. Melisandre and co will chose Jon over Stannis leading to Jon and Stannis duelling with Jon winning and killing Stannis. Jon will then defend the wall against the white walkers with Melisandre at his side, as things look their bleakest, Darnys and the dragons arrive to help out. Jon will discover his true lineage and that he is entitled to the throne but will refuse to break his vows and live at and reestablish the wall. One of the dragons will stay at the wall with Jon and he will one day be able to warg with the dragon in the same way that he does the wolf.

What of Bran and his storyline North of the wall? Do we assume he just becomes a fully fledged Greenseer?

I can see Bran's strength will grow and he'll warg one of the dragons somehow, which may be the event that leads to Jon being a rider.

[Ruki]

Keep clicking spoiler tags not thinking about them being book spoilers (not having a go, just my own bad habit). That's a lot of words I don't understand >_<

I've just stopped clicking spoiler tags that don't say "This is about the episode."

Much safer, that way.

[livid]

I've pretty much given up on trying to avoid spoilers considering I was spoiled on the last two major events. If those got spoiled and I still loved everything, I can't imagine knowing anything else that will ruin the experience.

[Benji]

I didn't have Red Wedding spoiled, but I've had Joffers' death and his murderer spoiled, which has annoyed me because it's going to be rubbish watching a season long "whodunnit" when I know the answer.

[Benjamin]

It's really not that hard to avoid so many spoilers, guys >_>

[Ruki]

I didn't have Red Wedding spoiled, but I've had Joffers' death and his murderer spoiled, which has annoyed me because it's going to be rubbish watching a season long "whodunnit" when I know the answer.

I knew of the Red Wedding, just not what happened.

I also knew Joffery died at this wedding, but not who the murderer is (although, really, it's pretty obvious. Although....this is Game of Thrones....)

[MalaCloudy Black]

I'd like to know who you think it is! PM me or something.

[Ant]

Are the books easy enough to follow/get in to? I imagine its a chapter per character or something?

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Yeah, it'll cover the events of one area from Character A's view point, then jump to Character B and explain what's happening somewhere else, then to Character C, Character D, etc. before going back and progressing Character A's story for another chapter and progressing in that format.

Not all characters get a viewpoint though. Only nine characters get viewpoints in A Game of Thrones, whilst in A Dance with Dragons, there are twice as many. As the story progresses and expands, more narrators give you viewpoints and opinions.

[NobBe Nobbs]

To answer a question a little way back about claims:

By Westerosi law, Dany's claim trumps Aegon's. Dany was the child of the king - the only person who ever had a stronger claim was Viserys, who would take precedent because he was older than her, and now he's dead, Dany is Aerys' "rightful" heir. Aegon is of noble blood, but as Rhaegar's son, he'd only get on the throne if all of Aerys' line were extinguished. Dornish law concurs in this as well - the only difference between the laws of succession in Dorne and the rest of the realm is that Dorne doesn't discriminate based on gender, the oldest child is the heir. It's the same system as we've just switched to, I understand.

[TKz]

Only downside to reading the books post-show is that the more you've watched, the less interesting some of the earlier stuff can be. I think I'll enjoy it more on a re-read, but the first time through, it's a little tough working through the early books waiting for things you saw in the show to happen. It can be a little weird adjusting to the smaller differences of events, too.

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

To answer a question a little way back about claims:

By Westerosi law, Dany's claim trumps Aegon's. Dany was the child of the king - the only person who ever had a stronger claim was Viserys, who would take precedent because he was older than her, and now he's dead, Dany is Aerys' "rightful" heir. Aegon is of noble blood, but as Rhaegar's son, he'd only get on the throne if all of Aerys' line were extinguished. Dornish law concurs in this as well - the only difference between the laws of succession in Dorne and the rest of the realm is that Dorne doesn't discriminate based on gender, the oldest child is the heir. It's the same system as we've just switched to, I understand.

I've seen conflicting reports as to who has the better claim, but you appear to be right.