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How, on a clear day, miles above the ocean, did Dany NOT see Euron's fleet?  Like, that makes zero sense.  Euron has basically been a deus ex machina for Cersei since he was introduced and its really old

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6 hours ago, Lint said:

 

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How, on a clear day, miles above the ocean, did Dany NOT see Euron's fleet?  Like, that makes zero sense.  Euron has basically been a deus ex machina for Cersei since he was introduced and its really old

 

Spoiler

The first camera shot they showed of the fleet, it looked like they were coming out of a bay surrounded by cliffs.

 

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D53V2fOUwAIYgZf?format=jpg&name=large

I’ve got a venti white chocolate mocha with a double shot for...Danayas?

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Spoiler

Ned kept the secret of Jon's parentage secret for years and years. Sansa must have kept it for about twenty minutes. This is why you don't trust teenagers.

 

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They're acting like Cersei's loss is a sure thing, if wrestling has taught me anything there might be a swerve!

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13 minutes ago, Moses Julep said:

 

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Spoiler

Looking at the comparative military forces, Cersei would be a significant favourite for anyone on the outside. I could possibly see Cersei "winning" a battle, but there's no way she's ending the story alive. The question is how many people she takes with her.

 

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C8u41UW.gif

This thread needs more Bobby B shooting lasers and fire.

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This was a great episode, but I hate like 90% of the choices they made.

Hug your dog you piece of shit.

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31 minutes ago, DMN said:

This was a great episode, but I hate like 90% of the choices they made.

 

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He did hug Tormund.

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I think I've come to terms with the fact this season isn't really going to satisfy me personally. It's fun, but they're sacrificing story telling for big moments, and that's a result of the shorter season. So I'm just going to enjoy it for what it is, and hope that over time I just start looking at it in the same way I do the LOST finale and Mass Effect 3 - a wonderful long journey, not defined by the way it ended.

The real Game of Thrones was the friends we made along the way, or something.

 

 

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I've really not been enjoying this season. I feel like the pace has been ramped up way too much while the 2nd episode was complete filler. It kinda feels like a montage of all the big moments rather than a traditional GOT season.

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They've adopted the WWE model of 'moments'.

Looking forward to King Kofi, first of his name.

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It’s weird that I’ve never watched this show but am still kind of fascinated by it and discussions about it anyway. 

At what point did the series overtake the books? Did it just take a sudden nosedive in quality when they stopped having the books to work from? I saw this earlier about the latest episode that sounds like something that’d annoy if I was a long-time fan of the show.

Spoiler

The Bronn scene in S08E04 is some of the worst writing the show has ever seen. I'm surprised that people are hardly mentioning how unbelievable and immersion-breaking this moment was.

So Bronn arrives in Winterfell with a massive crossbow in hand. He literally attacked Dany’s army last season. Are we supposed to believe he got in unquestioned or unnoticed? He then happens to find the exact two characters he’s looking for sitting together, alone, in the same room. He must have some sort of telepathic ability, having worked out that they both survived the recent battle - against all odds - and that they would be sitting together ready to have a private conversation. He must also have telepathically realised that walking into this room with a giant crossbow would be fine because noone else would be in there except for the two Lannister brothers. These characters could not have been more forced together for this awkward, contrived scenario. Once the conversation is over, Bronn gets up and leaves Winterfell again with his giant crossbow in hand. No worrying about the possibility of being seen or questioned. No mention of the fact that he presumably marched for weeks to get to the North and is probably rather tired and would probably be wanting at least a meal or a bed before heading back down South. No, he came to Winterfell to walk in and out of this room for this exact conversation, with total ease and no obstacles. The room is treated like a theatre set, in which the correct characters need to assemble and hash out said conversation. The world outside of that room may as well cease to exist. Point A must move to Point B. Beyond that, the showrunners do not care. Viewer immersion is no longer a concern. The only thing that matters to them is that the plot speeds ahead.

On top of all that, it must also be said that the scene itself is entirely devoid of tension. For some bizarre reason, no one is very surprised to see each other, despite the ridiculous nature of Bronn's appearance in Winterfell. We also don't believe for a moment that this will be how either Tyrion or Jaime dies, given the prior dynamics established between Bronn and both Tyrion and Jaime, making the entire point of this scene defunct. All in all, the ‘set-up’ of Bronn with the crossbow three episodes ago was proved to be (like so many others recently) a pointless and meaningless threat. This scene is indicative of the show’s complete disregard for logic, its contrivance of fake tension, and its ignorance of its own canon in order to move the characters into the showrunners' desired positions.

The thing I’ve always thought about Game of Thrones, as an outsider, is that it’s all about shades of grey rather than good and evil. Like that’s what I thought the point in some ways was. Like a guy can simultaneously be a fan favourite and generally “decent” character, while at the same literally trying and murder a child to cover up that he’s banging his sister. Mostly honourable, but occasionally does downright repulsive acts.

But when I watch bits and see someone like Cersei she is basically like comic book evil. I don’t get just relentless cartoon evil. Like the other character played by that Welsh actor from Misfits (I think?). Does it ever get to a point even as a fan where it just gets exhausting how relentless and unerringly evil they are. Like at a certain point it just seems like an exercise in seeing how psychotic a character they can make with torture scene after torture scene and needless, senseless murder for no real purpose other than to go “I know right! He’s so evil!”

Even Daenarys when I see bits with her, seems like an absolute power-hungry maniac. Refusing to help unless someone bends the knee, just a mad lust for power, executing people via incineration by dragon. I’m aware there’s 99.9% of her I’ve not seen but the bits I do leave me bewildered as to why she’s a fan favourite.

Maybe I should just watch it properly from the start :shifty:

The thing I think I’m most put off by is the opening credits going on for like ten minutes every episode.

Are the books good? 

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5 hours ago, Arjen Robben said:

It’s weird that I’ve never watched this show but am still kind of fascinated by it and discussions about it anyway. 

At what point did the series overtake the books? Did it just take a sudden nosedive in quality when they stopped having the books to work from? I saw this earlier about the latest episode that sounds like something that’d annoy if I was a long-time fan of the show.

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The Bronn scene in S08E04 is some of the worst writing the show has ever seen. I'm surprised that people are hardly mentioning how unbelievable and immersion-breaking this moment was.

So Bronn arrives in Winterfell with a massive crossbow in hand. He literally attacked Dany’s army last season. Are we supposed to believe he got in unquestioned or unnoticed? He then happens to find the exact two characters he’s looking for sitting together, alone, in the same room. He must have some sort of telepathic ability, having worked out that they both survived the recent battle - against all odds - and that they would be sitting together ready to have a private conversation. He must also have telepathically realised that walking into this room with a giant crossbow would be fine because noone else would be in there except for the two Lannister brothers. These characters could not have been more forced together for this awkward, contrived scenario. Once the conversation is over, Bronn gets up and leaves Winterfell again with his giant crossbow in hand. No worrying about the possibility of being seen or questioned. No mention of the fact that he presumably marched for weeks to get to the North and is probably rather tired and would probably be wanting at least a meal or a bed before heading back down South. No, he came to Winterfell to walk in and out of this room for this exact conversation, with total ease and no obstacles. The room is treated like a theatre set, in which the correct characters need to assemble and hash out said conversation. The world outside of that room may as well cease to exist. Point A must move to Point B. Beyond that, the showrunners do not care. Viewer immersion is no longer a concern. The only thing that matters to them is that the plot speeds ahead.

On top of all that, it must also be said that the scene itself is entirely devoid of tension. For some bizarre reason, no one is very surprised to see each other, despite the ridiculous nature of Bronn's appearance in Winterfell. We also don't believe for a moment that this will be how either Tyrion or Jaime dies, given the prior dynamics established between Bronn and both Tyrion and Jaime, making the entire point of this scene defunct. All in all, the ‘set-up’ of Bronn with the crossbow three episodes ago was proved to be (like so many others recently) a pointless and meaningless threat. This scene is indicative of the show’s complete disregard for logic, its contrivance of fake tension, and its ignorance of its own canon in order to move the characters into the showrunners' desired positions.

The thing I’ve always thought about Game of Thrones, as an outsider, is that it’s all about shades of grey rather than good and evil. Like that’s what I thought the point in some ways was. Like a guy can simultaneously be a fan favourite and generally “decent” character, while at the same literally trying and murder a child to cover up that he’s banging his sister. Mostly honourable, but occasionally does downright repulsive acts.

But when I watch bits and see someone like Cersei she is basically like comic book evil. I don’t get just relentless cartoon evil. Like the other character played by that Welsh actor from Misfits (I think?). Does it ever get to a point even as a fan where it just gets exhausting how relentless and unerringly evil they are. Like at a certain point it just seems like an exercise in seeing how psychotic a character they can make with torture scene after torture scene and needless, senseless murder for no real purpose other than to go “I know right! He’s so evil!”

Even Daenarys when I see bits with her, seems like an absolute power-hungry maniac. Refusing to help unless someone bends the knee, just a mad lust for power, executing people via incineration by dragon. I’m aware there’s 99.9% of her I’ve not seen but the bits I do leave me bewildered as to why she’s a fan favourite.

Maybe I should just watch it properly from the start :shifty:

The thing I think I’m most put off by is the opening credits going on for like ten minutes every episode.

Are the books good? 

I'll give what answers I can:

  • Seasons 4-6 are about where the show outpaced the books plotwise. The siege of Riverrun and the Kingsmoot on the Iron Islands were, to my recollection, the last of the surviving book scenes to make it to film intact.
    Spoiler

    Shireen Baratheon's death and how Hodor came to be Hodor are reputedly canonical albeit unpublished, but that's a discussion for whenever The Winds of Winter finally drops.

    Golden Company does appear in the books but not involved with Cersei, instead choosing to support a lad called Young Griff in his quest to take the Iron Throne. Now let's back it up to before the books and show and set the scene to explain why he's coming for the throne:
         King's Landing, tail end of Robert's Rebellion. The presumptive heir Rhaegar Targaryen's dead at the hands of Bobby B, which technically is a minor bit of kinslaying*. I'll explain how at the end of the post.

    During the sacking, Gregor Clegane brutally murders Rhaegar's son Aegon. HOWEVER, according to some, that boy wasn't actually him. Young Griff is reputedly actually Rhaegar's son, alive and well and raring to take the crown. I emphasize the reputed part because some things don't quite add up but that's enough sidetracking for now.
  • Closest to being exhaustingly evil is Euron Greyjoy, but only because book Euron is a fucking walking living breathing power metal album and would be a more bearable kind of evil.

  • In Cersei's defense, she has passed the point of giving a fuck. Girl's been through stuff, but still is pretty dark. There's glimpses of a decent-enough person at times, especially that time where she openly tells Sansa in Season 2 how much of an utter gobshit Joffrey is and asks her to love any of their potential kids if she can't love Joff.

  • Dany doesn't seem power-hungry to me, more unable/unwilling to adequately think things out before making radical moves i.e most of her story arc in Slaver's Bay.

  • Depends.

    Main series-wise, the last two books (A Feast For Crows, A Dance With Dragons) do drag on somewhat, considering that they take place at roughly the same time in different locations. The Winds of Winter will be released whenever and there's a chance A Dream of Spring will never see the light of day considering GRRM wants his notes on the future of the series destroyed upon his death.

    Side projects? Currently reading Fire and Blood, which is a pretty good read on the first half of the Targaryen's time on the Iron Throne. (roughly from Aegon the Conqueror's initial conquests to the end of Aegon III's regency after The Dance of The Dragons, which would make for a fucking cool albeit expensive spinoff)


*=Robert Baratheon's paternal great-grandfather was Aegon V Targaryen, his grandmother on that side being Aegon's youngest daughter Rhaelle. She had three brothers: Duncan, Jaehaerys, and Daeron; of which, Jaehaerys is the only one we need to be concerned with, for he a son named Aerys, who in turn was the father of Rhaegar.

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So speculation:

The big thread I've felt since very early in my time reading the books was that there was too much finality to Daenerys taking the Iron Throne. It seemed a guarantee, she had dragons and legions of followers. It's not very subtle, despite GRRM being typically really good at this, that she isn't going to reach the logical end. I think this was the trigger that causes her to snap. Varys knows about Jon's parentage and by knowing it will never not be a secret again. This along with seeing Missandei die are going to work to cause her undoing. There's a bit of a parallel with Cersei, who despite being evil from the start would do anything for her children. Watching Joffrey die and then Myrcella caused something to break. Tommen siding with High Sparrow was the trigger that turned her. I think with Daenerys there's similar factors. She says she desires to be the just queen, who breaks chains, etc. But she needs to have unlimited power to do that, and she's letting that could some of her judgment. And now having seen two of her dragons die as well as her closest friend in Missandei, as well as her lover in Jon growing distant from her, it's just a matter of time until everything boils over.

I've known it for 15 years now. Daenerys is the end boss.

Also, on the topic of Jaime riding south. I think it's a fakeout. He has some plan and he can't let anyone in on it. That really out-of-place scene with Bronn I think was forced in only so we have Jaime, on the record, tell someone he expects Daenerys to win and is planning for it. Him deciding to ride south as soon as he hears about Cersei and Euron destroying Dany's fleet at Dragonstone combined with that makes me think he realized he has to stop Cersei. It's just, so forced, either he did a 180 in record time (even for this show) or it's fakeout.

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So uh...what about Daario? :shifty: 

 

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1 hour ago, Mick said:
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Recast him again, then have Daario 1 and Daario 2 fight him to decide which one is the real one.

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3 minutes ago, Dickon Manwoody said:

Recast him again, then have Daario 1 and Daario 2 fight him to decide which one is the real one.

How about no one? 

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Just now, Mick said:

How about no one? 

So Jaqen=Daario=Euron confirmed?

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Daario won't be relevant to the end, he never was.

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I'm still really enioying this season and most story beats make sense.

I think there's a lot to be said for that thought someone posted the other day about people predicting/deciding what's going to happen then being disappointed when something else does. Enjoy the ride. I can't think of much this season that didn't make logical sense, at all, really.

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Yeah it's been a perfectly good season. Maybe feels a tad rushed because they've got less episodes to work with, nothing has time to breathe because they're immediately onto the next big event.

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5 hours ago, Adam said:

I'm still really enioying this season and most story beats make sense.

I think there's a lot to be said for that thought someone posted the other day about people predicting/deciding what's going to happen then being disappointed when something else does. Enjoy the ride. I can't think of much this season that didn't make logical sense, at all, really.

This feels nitpicky because it's a TV show, but just about all of the battle from last week. 

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The biggest thing that bothered me...

Spoiler

Does Dany really not have any scouts moving ahead that would have noticed a large moving fleet of ships with ballistae? How on earth did they get the element of surprise to that level?

Other stuff bugged me and like I say I'll just have to accept, but that really annoyed the crap out of me and felt like a super cheap and lazy way to kill off one of the dragons.

 

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8 hours ago, Adam said:

I'm still really enioying this season and most story beats make sense.

I think there's a lot to be said for that thought someone posted the other day about people predicting/deciding what's going to happen then being disappointed when something else does. Enjoy the ride. I can't think of much this season that didn't make logical sense, at all, really.

I have no problem with the outcomes. It's just the whole thing has been shit and nothing at all like Game of Thrones. Jon and Daenarys' Alladin style dragon ride was just so bizarre and out of place for one example of many.. They're racing through plots and shuffling characters around the continent in seconds and the dialogue doesn't even sound like Game of Thrones anymore. Look at this compared to season 1-4 and it's like a completely different show. I don't even care how it ends anymore.

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