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Some thread about the law surrounding parody


Serious Parody

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I hear what you're all saying and believe me if we could afford to give it away we would and if we could afford to make it cheap, we would but we've sank an awful lot of money into this game and we need to make it back so that we can keep paying our developers. This next part is from a conversation I had earlier, it's a bit ranty but I hope you guys can read it and understand where I'm coming from.

"The problem is, we've built a game for a very niche part of the market. If you're not a wrestling fan, chances are you won't look twice at it and even if you are a wrestling fan, you might not be a management games fan and then even if you are both of those, you might not like games that aren't licensed. There's over 100,000 games on the app store and we are the only wrestling management sim but THERE ARE 2 'ANGRY BIRDS--WITH-WWE-WRESTLERS' GAMES FOR GOD SAKE!

So we've done the crazy thing and instead of making a mass market piece of crap, we've tried to make a good game for actual wrestling game fans. The consequence of that is, we can't charge $0.99 because to do so would require us to sell 250,000 copies just to break even and I doubt there's even 25,000 wrestling management game fans in the world never mind 250,000. The killer is, Wrestling Manager has all kinds of things going for it. It's got 5 different stages of the game where you're trying to get TV and PPV deals, then it becomes about Ratings and improving the roster so that you can take part in the online 'Ratings War' league. There's over 400+ characters each with their own art work, a full blown real time auction system, there's some really deep gameplay in there too like how you improve your wrestlers, you can turn kayfabe mode off and pick who wins the matches, etc. There's automate systems to help you make events quicker and there's even a feature that lets you swap out our art work for what ever files you want (so that you can put in the real wrestlers if you wanted to).

You know it's funny, people complain that we get nothing but Angry Birds rip offs and shameless casual games but then when someone goes out of their way to make a hardcore niche game, they get criticised for trying to earn enough money back to pay their employees. Maybe we should have released an Angry Birds rip off too. "

Edited by Serious Parody
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This cost you $250,000 to develop?!?! (insert more ? and ! here)

Gambatte.

Like I said, we wanted to make it a great game.

The platform holder takes roughly 30% of all income. So if we sold 250,000 at $0.99 we'd get $175,000 back which still wouldn't be enough to break even but at least it would keep us going for quite a while.

Wow serious stuff :o

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This cost you $250,000 to develop?!?! (insert more ? and ! here)

Gambatte.

Like I said, we wanted to make it a great game.

The platform holder takes roughly 30% of all income. So if we sold 250,000 at $0.99 we'd get $175,000 back which still wouldn't be enough to break even but at least it would keep us going for quite a while.

Wow serious stuff :o

The reason so many people in here are skeptical about wrestling games popping up is because people say "I'm going to make one" but they don't realise just how complicated it is to do. That's why some people get part way through then stop and it's why I have a lot of respect for Adam Ryland for sticking it out all these years.

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It's a lot cheaper if you do everything yourself rather than actually pay people to do it. >_>

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First or all you need a business manager. I'm not one, but I do know that you can easily attain market share breakdowns of major wrestling shows by demographic. You can then easily find figures for the percentage of said demographic that own an iPhone or iPad. I would assume figures also exist for how much each demographic is willing to spend on an app for their Apple product. This sort of research is generally undertaken prior to manufacture or development so you know if there is an audience base, and how large that base is. It would also give you a good opening price point.

I don't think anyone wants you or expects you to give your product away. But I wouldn't spend $10 on an app/game unless it had rave reviews. Nobody was suggesting that you sell it for 99cents. Or if they were I missed it. But your argument is nearly as flawed as theirs. Why didn't you price it at $500,000 and that way if you only sold one copy you would have recouped and at least doubled your expenses? Because that would be a silly expectation. Now I have no idea how reviews work and all that sort of shit, but unless there is some major buzz that is suddenly created about this game I can't see people spending $10 on it as a casual purchase. I'd likely spend $5 on it but no way would I be willing to spend $10 on something I know nothing about. Either I need people telling me I have to play it game dev story style, or it needs to be have really solid reviews.

I mean as far as I'm aware there isn't even a website or somewhere I can go and look over the way the game works prior to purchase as far as I know (I have an Android device).

I really think you have done something amazing by actually getting a game out there and available to the general public. I'm just worried about the price. Then again Adam Ryland's games to me are way too expensive and yet people buy the new editions every time they come out. I think the difference there though is that he'd developed a fairly massive user-base through EWD and EWR. As such people were willing to pay the money knowing that if it was anything like his previous work it would be excellent.

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First or all you need a business manager. I'm not one, but I do know that you can easily attain market share breakdowns of major wrestling shows by demographic. You can then easily find figures for the percentage of said demographic that own an iPhone or iPad. I would assume figures also exist for how much each demographic is willing to spend on an app for their Apple product. This sort of research is generally undertaken prior to manufacture or development so you know if there is an audience base, and how large that base is. It would also give you a good opening price point.

I don't think anyone wants you or expects you to give your product away. But I wouldn't spend $10 on an app/game unless it had rave reviews. Nobody was suggesting that you sell it for 99cents. Or if they were I missed it. But your argument is nearly as flawed as theirs. Why didn't you price it at $500,000 and that way if you only sold one copy you would have recouped and at least doubled your expenses? Because that would be a silly expectation. Now I have no idea how reviews work and all that sort of shit, but unless there is some major buzz that is suddenly created about this game I can't see people spending $10 on it as a casual purchase. I'd likely spend $5 on it but no way would I be willing to spend $10 on something I know nothing about. Either I need people telling me I have to play it game dev story style, or it needs to be have really solid reviews.

I mean as far as I'm aware there isn't even a website or somewhere I can go and look over the way the game works prior to purchase as far as I know (I have an Android device).

I really think you have done something amazing by actually getting a game out there and available to the general public. I'm just worried about the price. Then again Adam Ryland's games to me are way too expensive and yet people buy the new editions every time they come out. I think the difference there though is that he'd developed a fairly massive user-base through EWD and EWR. As such people were willing to pay the money knowing that if it was anything like his previous work it would be excellent.

When did $10 for a game that you can play for months become such a bad investment? I had a pizza last night that cost more than that and it lasted 10 minutes.

But hey, if you guys think $10's is too much for a good wrestling management game, then I guess you'll have to go enjoy the other wrestling games on the iPhone - like Angry Birds. How much is TEW again?

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But we don't know we can play it for months - we only have your word for it, and most people won't even have that. People aren't going to spend $10 on something they know absolutely nothing about.

But hey, if you guys think $10's is too much for a good wrestling management game, then I guess you'll have to go enjoy the other wrestling games on the iPhone - like Angry Birds. How much is TEW again?

Also, you might want to work on your public relations there, business guy.

EDIT: Just to make that last statement marginally less dickish; when somebody gives you advice, or points out a flaw in your business model, don't act like it's them that are at fault.

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I paid $40 to buy TEW for a friend of mine and he got bored of it after half an hour.

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It's a lot cheaper if you do everything yourself rather than actually pay people to do it. >_>

Assuming I had the skills needed to draw the cards and to write every line of code, etc the game would have taken me 5-6 years to make on my own and that's assuming I was at it full time which I couldn't be because I'd need to work to pay my bills..

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I don't buy TEW cos it's too expensive and I don't have enough love for the product.

However I DO spend 30 quid a year on Pro Cycling Manager cos it's proven for about 8-10 years now that it's worth the money and offers a lot of quality entertainment on my PC.

There are also a LOT of people who drop that kind of money on Football Manager each year. Why? It's proven to be the best. Proven.

Even then SI games offer a free Football Manager demo every SINGLE year so people can try it out. They take NOTHING for granted with regards to the target audience.

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Guest JukeboxHero

When did $10 for a game that you can play for months become such a bad investment? I had a pizza last night that cost more than that and it lasted 10 minutes.

But hey, if you guys think $10's is too much for a good wrestling management game, then I guess you'll have to go enjoy the other wrestling games on the iPhone - like Angry Birds. How much is TEW again?

You gotta admit, he has a point.

I have purchased the game. Dunno how much I'll be able to play this weekend, but I look forward to it! (Y)

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If 100 people bought it at $9.99 that means $999

If 200 people bought it at $4.99 that means $998 BUT an extra hundred people who have it and may well be telling friends about it if it's any good.

That is solid logic.

Halve the cost and you'll sell twice as much with the potential to sell more via word of mouth from twice as many satisified customers.

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