Official 2012/13 Premier League thread

[Matt]

I honestly don't think they would have signed anyone had Van Persie not been available. Beyond that who, realistically, could they have signed that would have earnt them that many points. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that 28 points (and counting) is probably the most any one player has been responsible for in one premier league season. The only exception I can think of is maybe RVP last season for arsenal.

[DavidMarrio]

I agree that saying "RVP has given you 25 goals so without him you wouldn't be doing as well" is a stupid argument. It's akin to having 10 shots, scoring none of them and then saying "well if it wasn't for the goalkeeper we'd have won easily".

This United team has not really stood out this season. Nor have many of the players, if any besides Van Persie. But they have been organised and excellent at grinding teams down which, for about 60% of this league is enough to beat them.

And yet it's a completely reasonable statement to make when you replace RVP with "Suarez" and United with "Liverpool."

When have I ever done that, even once? I feel I am quite pro-Liverpool on this board.

Matt, sure Welbeck/Hernandez/Rooney probably wouldn't have covered the goals to earn those additional 28 points, but does them not signing RVP also mean Fergie wouldn't have tried to spend £20 million on another striker? Surely it's fair to assume that Man Utd wanted to find a new striker when Berbatov left regardless of RVP's availability last summer?

I think Nerf's trying to point out that a lot of people say it not just with Suarez/Liverpool but its happened with Bale/Spurs, it happened with RVP/Arsenal its always happened take big goalscorer out the team and they'd be worse off.

I think this United team whilst its not the strongest XI they've had in a while, its probably the best squad in terms of the options they have for a long time. Plus whilst they may not have been outstanding in games they've done what they have had to do. I wish we could play shit and win games 1-0 etc, its what champions do they win despite playing shit in the match. Add into the fact that quite a few of the players in the squad are young its easy to say that this could be that quite a few of the players in that team will probably win the league a few more times for the rest of this decade. Players like Ferdinand and Giggs will disappear but they've already started to get their bases covered for the future.

Fucking Mancs

[Adam]

I honestly don't think they would have signed anyone had Van Persie not been available. Beyond that who, realistically, could they have signed that would have earnt them that many points. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that 28 points (and counting) is probably the most any one player has been responsible for in one premier league season. The only exception I can think of is maybe RVP last season for arsenal.

I'd like to see those stats too. RVP is undoubtedly one of the best but it's conjecture/speculation to say that they'd be worse off without his goals as we don't know what, if anything, Fergie would've done to address his striking options in the summer if he hadn't been able to sign RVP.

I agree that saying "RVP has given you 25 goals so without him you wouldn't be doing as well" is a stupid argument. It's akin to having 10 shots, scoring none of them and then saying "well if it wasn't for the goalkeeper we'd have won easily".

This United team has not really stood out this season. Nor have many of the players, if any besides Van Persie. But they have been organised and excellent at grinding teams down which, for about 60% of this league is enough to beat them.

And yet it's a completely reasonable statement to make when you replace RVP with "Suarez" and United with "Liverpool."

When have I ever done that, even once? I feel I am quite pro-Liverpool on this board.

Matt, sure Welbeck/Hernandez/Rooney probably wouldn't have covered the goals to earn those additional 28 points, but does them not signing RVP also mean Fergie wouldn't have tried to spend £20 million on another striker? Surely it's fair to assume that Man Utd wanted to find a new striker when Berbatov left regardless of RVP's availability last summer?

I think Nerf's trying to point out that a lot of people say it not just with Suarez/Liverpool but its happened with Bale/Spurs, it happened with RVP/Arsenal its always happened take big goalscorer out the team and they'd be worse off.

In that case fair enough, I don't agree with anyone saying it as justification for a team doing well be it with RVP, Suarez, Bale or anyone. These players are signed and put in these positions to score goals and win games, it's part of the game. Are Swansea well clear of relegation because of Michu's goals? Of course they are, that's why they signed him. Same principle.

[Matt]

I honestly don't think they would have signed anyone had Van Persie not been available. Beyond that who, realistically, could they have signed that would have earnt them that many points. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that 28 points (and counting) is probably the most any one player has been responsible for in one premier league season. The only exception I can think of is maybe RVP last season for arsenal.

I'd like to see those stats too. RVP is undoubtedly one of the best but it's conjecture/speculation to say that they'd be worse off without his goals as we don't know what, if anything, Fergie would've done to address his striking options in the summer if he hadn't been able to sign RVP.

Surely the entire discussion of how good the squad is is conjecture, it's all based on opinion and can't be proven. There's no reason why "they couldn't have realistically signed anyone that would contribute than RVP" is any less valid than "[insert players here] are good players".

[Ant]

I am hopeful we will bounce back with a win next week vs Sunderland. It's a must win game, it always was, but even more so now.

I think two more wins should do it but i don't want to go to the DW on last day of the season needing a win. Either way im bricking it.

[Gazz]

Man Utd have done so well because teams seem to have bought into media hype and set themselves up to lose. Its been shown in both the last two seasons that if you press them, get in their faces and don't give them time on the ball, they go to pieces.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

So what you're saying is you don't rate rank how good a side is by comparing them like for like with their competition? Stop being silly.

And I don't think "this side will be great in the future" (and I'm far from convinced that Welbeck, Cleverley, Evans, Zaha, Powell and Smalling are going to be great players) is a good argument for why this is a good squad now, by that logic Arsenal have had a great squad for years now.

Take Fergie and RVP out of Manchester United and drop them in Manchester City or Chelsea and I reckon that team wins the league

On top of that, you're not even close to being as good as Barca, Madrid, Munich and Dortmund. Short of the game against Braga (?) you looked thoroughly unconvincing in Europe all season, you couldn't say that about any Man Utd team I remember.

You mean the same Madrid that we were about to defeat up until a referee decided to have a meltdown and send off a United player? Up until then we were undefeated in Europe, went to Madrid and probably should of won the game and then went home, got everything spot on and then got undone by a red card. That sounds a bit dickish and like a massive excuse really, but that's simply the way it went. People went into that game saying we'd get slaughtered, which we proved was sheer nonsense. Outside of Barcelona we match up well with all of the above three sides on paper, time will tell though.

That's not the logic either. The difference is that what we've put in place is getting results and bringing success, so no, it's nothing even remotely similar to Arsenal. It's quite tiring hearing the old line of "Take SAF out" or now that we've signed Van Persie "Take RVP out...". Of course Fergie is a fucking sensational manager, how we'll we'd be competing without him we simply wont know until it happens. You're using if's and but's, the facts are that we have these people and that'll always defeat the argument of "But if you didn't have so and so", realistically none of us know how we'd fair without either one of those. Funnily enough Van Persie hasn't even been our best player this season either.

My argument wasn't that this side will be great for the future and therefor it's a great squad now, that's just something I'm putting out there because it means added potential to what we're already producing. We've got the perfect balance of what we need right now and with a top midfield signing, we're sorted. Hey, if you see it differently, fair dues, because quite a few people I've had this discussion with do. But nothing's going to change my view on it, I think within time people will look back and realise how great this squad actually was. And as I said, it's only going to get better and with the gained experienced for the younger guys this season and gelling of the new additions, I'd expect even more next season.

Or the same Real Madrid that were the better team over 180 minutes and would have probably beaten you had Nani not been sent off (regardless of whether that was right and it's not as cut and dry as you're pretending it was) had Rafael been sent off minutes later for handball? And I have no idea why you think you were undefeated in Europe, #1 and #2. You also came from behind in all but one of your 4 CL wins. You were definitely unconvincing in Europe.

My point that RVP and Fergie's management skills have carried you this season is perfectly acceptable in arguing that you don't have a great squad because like I said, put those 2 into Chelsea or City and they'd probably be about as good if not better than you've been this season. Side note, I disagree with Adam about RVP's goals being a stupid argument, his goals have been responsible for exactly 1/3rd of their points tally, had RVP not gone there could you honestly imagine Welbeck/Hernandez/Rooney earning them an additional 28 points. it doesn't taint their achievement but it indicates that rather than being a great squad, they've got a few brilliant players, Van Persie being the key one.

Fucking hell

Not sure why I thought we were undefeated up until the Madrid game, my mistake man.

Man Utd have done so well because teams seem to have bought into media hype and set themselves up to lose. Its been shown in both the last two seasons that if you press them, get in their faces and don't give them time on the ball, they go to pieces.

I don't think that's as true as it once was. Lately more teams have been coming to OT or playing us and coming at us much more than what a lot of teams once would. Teams like Southampton came with no fear, pressed us like fuck and took the game to us. We still find ways to win Gazz

Edited April 23, 2013 by JohnnyPerfect

[Baddar]

Newcastle took the game to us at OT...and lost.

[Gazz]

We took the game to you last season and won 3-0. Tiote single handedly made your entire midfield four look like they were made of jelly.

[Hobo]

Man Utd have done so well because teams seem to have bought into media hype and set themselves up to lose. Its been shown in both the last two seasons that if you press them, get in their faces and don't give them time on the ball, they go to pieces.

I think that's been the case for longer than that. Liverpool under Rafa did so well against United in Rafa's last could of seasons because of pressing the hell out of their centre midfield and then the fact that Vidic could never handle Torres.

I would, overall, say this has not been a good season for many teams.

Half of England's champions league qualifiers didn't make it out of the groups. Including the current European champions.

City mounted a lacklustre defence of their title.

Chelsea weren't really able to build much on the momentum of winning the CL.

Arsenal have ploughed the same furrow as last season more or less. But still might somehow make the top four.

Spurs, they're kinda in the same place as they were last year too, might make the top four might not.

Liverpool are a bit topsy turvey, but at least looking like there is a long term plan to stick with the current manager (which the club needs after the Hodgson debacle and Dalglish going off the rails).

It has probably been a better season for Swansea or West Brom or Everton than it has for either the traditional big four or the two teams most consistent in challenging for top places

[stokeriño]

Graham Poll writes in the Daily Mail about Mark Clattenburg returning to Chelsea on Sunday. It is entitled Chelsea should give a warm welcome to Clattenburg...or they may suffer the consequences.

He expands on what is meant by 'consequences' towards the end:

Chelsea released a statement after the Mikel case was over saying that they wanted 'to make it clear they would welcome Mark Clattenburg to Stamford Bridge in the future'.

Let's hope they do - but a word of caution to Chelsea fans is that when turned upon, Clattenburg can react.

Everton fans saw that at a derby in which Clattenburg failed to dismiss a couple of Liverpool players, Dirk Kuyt the most memorable, or award a couple of penalties to Everton as the Goodison fans made the referee's job almost intolerable.

So, go along and enjoy the game. Treat him as just another referee and he will be able to perform fairly and the best team should win.

In writing this Poll has essentially 1) admitted that referees aren't impartial (applaud their decisions or they'll make things even worse for you), and 2) delivered a thinly-veiled threat to Chelsea fans on that basis.

On the one hand, I'm staggered. On the other hand, I expected no less.

[Lineker]

I don't get the Utd bashing. It's their fault that the other teams are shit? You can only beat what's put out in front of you at the end of the day.

Harry Redknapp has denied committing two motoring offences in Dorset.

The Queens Park Rangers manager, of Panorama Road, Poole, is accused of speeding in The Avenue on 23 October last year.

He is also accused of failing to supply the driver's identity as required under section 172 of The Road Traffic Act.

Mr Redknapp, 66, did not attend Bournemouth Magistrates' Court on Monday but Jonathan Morrissey, defending, entered not guilty pleas.

A trial is scheduled at Bournemouth Magistrates' Court on 1 August.

[Nerf]

I don't get the Utd bashing. It's their fault that the other teams are shit? You can only beat what's put out in front of you at the end of the day.

No, but some people claimed that this is a great United team and... it's really not.

[Plubby]

I know it's not much to go on, but I watched United on Easter Weekend (I wanna say it was Sunderland they were playing) and they were just so much disgustingly better than their opposition it was actually a little sad to watch. Sometimes the other team didn't even realise how badly outclassed they were.

[Gazz]

I don't get the Utd bashing. It's their fault that the other teams are shit? You can only beat what's put out in front of you at the end of the day.

Harry Redknapp has denied committing two motoring offences in Dorset.

The Queens Park Rangers manager, of Panorama Road, Poole, is accused of speeding in The Avenue on 23 October last year.

He is also accused of failing to supply the driver's identity as required under section 172 of The Road Traffic Act.

Mr Redknapp, 66, did not attend Bournemouth Magistrates' Court on Monday but Jonathan Morrissey, defending, entered not guilty pleas.

A trial is scheduled at Bournemouth Magistrates' Court on 1 August.

His dog did it.

[Nerf]

I know it's not much to go on, but I watched United on Easter Weekend (I wanna say it was Sunderland they were playing) and they were just so much disgustingly better than their opposition it was actually a little sad to watch. Sometimes the other team didn't even realise how badly outclassed they were.

Pretty sure Sunderland took the game to United. I may be wrong, though.

[Hobo]

I did love last night that before the game the commentator said the Premier League was the 'most competitive league in the world'. Five different winners in twenty years, that's pretty competitive alright.

[Plubby]

Well I could have been wrong about the opposition. Whoever they played on easter weekend had their back broken, put in the camel clutch, and made humble.

[stokeriño]

Well I could have been wrong about the opposition. Whoever they played on easter weekend had their back broken, put in the camel clutch, and made humble.

On the Saturday they played Sunderland and only won 1-0. I didn't see the match but it wouldn't appear to have been a thrashing.

On the Monday they played Chelsea and lost.

[MJB]

I know it's not much to go on, but I watched United on Easter Weekend (I wanna say it was Sunderland they were playing) and they were just so much disgustingly better than their opposition it was actually a little sad to watch. Sometimes the other team didn't even realise how badly outclassed they were.

Pretty sure Sunderland took the game to United. I may be wrong, though.

Sunderland had their only shot on goal in the 91st minute.