Sons of Anarchy, The Final Season **SPOILERS**

[EndOfAnEra]

Do we really need to talk spoiler tags for aired episodes? Anyways, Maxx:

i get why it happened, I called it last week, but I still think there's more that Opie could've done. Chibs dying could've been just as effective, and he doesn't have anything going on story-wise really.

And fr34k:

Clay dying would be a fitting end, which is why they're saving it for the end. As for Tigg's daughters death, how was that not effective? It opens up Tigg to go absolutely nuts.

Edited September 26, 2012 by EndOfAnEra

[Maxx]

Minus an s there bud. Yes, we do need spoiler tags because some people haven't seen it yet.

[Nerf]

I don't think I've ever felt as emotional as I did watching that.

[fr34k]

And fr34k:

Clay dying would be a fitting end, which is why they're saving it for the end. As for Tigg's daughters death, how was that not effective? It opens up Tigg to go absolutely nuts.

It was first of all not effective for the audience because we didn't actually know her besides the odd episode or two (it sucks for Tigg, that is true) but Tigg is one of those persons who got it coming for him. He did kill Pope's daughter AND Opie's wife - so using this as an opportunity for him to go nuts is not really working for me at least, because my reaction was "Well, dude had it coming." and not "OH THE GRIEF! KILL 'EM TIGG KILL 'EM GOOD!" It just felt empty.

Edited September 26, 2012 by fr34k

[EndOfAnEra]

Fair point.

[Maxx]

Anyways...retort to fr34k

Using a character's death to push the plot and evolve characters is not stupid, its fucking good television. It's never a problem if it adds something to the story and progresses things. You're missing the point entirely if you think this story should end with Jax rebuilding the club, which is especially egergious if you loved Opie's character as you say you do. From the first episode, Opie was struggling with the decision to leave SAMCRO to be with his family. He chose to stay with SAMCRO, lost his wife and eventually lost his Dad too. Opie represented that struggle, the same struggle Jax has been having. Jax learned nothing from Opie's struggles. He was still prioritizing the club over his family, right up until Opie forced his hand and volunteered to die. That whole "We decide our own fate" thing was just Jax still trying to protect the club and ignoring the risk it poses to himself and his family. So Opie made the choice Jax was unable to make, and it appears to have finally gotten Jax to realize he needs to do what is nessecary to protet his family instead of the club.

I get that people like Opie, I did too, but this is a far better way for the character to end. I'd rather see a strong supporting character be used in a way to futher the overall story, instead of just keeping him around and putting him through superfulous sub plots. That's exactly what anything else involving Opie would be. The guy had lost pretty much everything, aside from his kids who he was never comfortable raising on his own.

Also, I get that everyone hates Clay and wants him to die, but do you really want it without him? The entire series is setting up for the ultimate Clay Vs Jax showdown, and you want to give that up early and keep going? Yeah, no thanks. It's the same dumb arguement I had with people about The Shield. Everyone wanted to see Vic Mackey get his, regardless of the fact that it was obviously the end point of the show. Instead, they let the whole thing build for seven seasons and it all came to a head gloriously. That's exactly what Sutter is doing with SOA. It's kind of ridiculous for me to read you complain about Pope being boring and just filling the big bad role, but claim that Clay, the show's primary antagonist should have been killed already. If the show is going to run for 7 seasons, why would you wrap up the show's major plot arc in season 5? You'd just end up wrapping up loose ends for two seasons and then creating some other, lesser plot arc with some new big bad to finish things out with half the build of Clay's arc.

SOA, like The Shield before it, is designed to be one really long movie. Clay is still alive for the same reason they didn't kill off Darth Vader and the Empereror in Empire Strike Back.

[fr34k]

Maxx:

No, a character should die if their story has run it's course and death is the logical conclusion to the story of that character we've been told so far. Now, you might argue that Opie sacrificing himself for the club was the right move, but seeing Opie's death (by the hands of seemingly random people at that [Pope is the new evil and not important to the Son catalogue so far]) or rather his whole character, although certainly true in some aspects, just as a catalyst for Jax to evolve is lazy and bad writing - I have no problem with character death in general, but this one feels cheap. I have no problem with my favorite's dying in other shows, but it almost always felt real too me. This one doesn't, because I don't think it was the right move for the Opie character.

However, I see your point with Jax coming to terms that his family is what counts now - BUT the whole start of the series also had to do with Jax reading the manuscript his father left him, which clearly emphasized all the good the club can and should do, and how it got ruined. Rebuilding the club is at least as important as protecting his family, because the club is his family. I'm going to skip the stuff about The Shield because I haven't seen the show and don't want to get spoilered, but anyways.

Seven seaons is way too long for this show storytelling-wise anyways, but there would have been plenty of stuff to do for everyone still if Clay had died - and the reason why he is still hanging around and apparently wrecking havoc again is not particularly well done. The guy killed Jax's dad, Opie's dad, ordered a hit on Opie's wife and a failed hit on Terra. And after all that shit you are arguing that it took Opie dying for Jax to realize "Screw the club, I need my family!"? I mean come on. And I don't buy that Clay being around longer because he is the big evil isn't a valid point - his time had come. Jax finally realized all the shit the guy did and he should have ended it right there (or Opie for that matter). I mean, do you really want Clay to die in two seasons after he has done God knows what else and the audience thinking "Well, if that happened two seasons ago none of this shit would have happened" - just because it took Jax this long to realize that the club is not important?

I get where you're going from in parts at least, but it doesn't really add up in my opinion.

[Maxx]

If you think seven season is too long for this kind of storytelling, don't even bother watching The Shield. The whole show is a slow burn. People should be saying "well if only they had done X than Y wouldn't have happened. That's been the running narrative for the entire show. If Opie had stayed out of the club, his wife and his dad would probably be alive. If Jax had left with Tara earlier, everything would be different. Why do you choose to single out the fact that they're allowing Clay to live as an example of this you can't ever reconcile? Especially after it's been explained why Clay has to live. The wrong decisions have to be made and continue being made, it keeps the story moving, instead of things wrapping up neatly, we go deeper, we get more layers and the ultimate payoff becomes that much sweeter.

Yeah, Jax started out the series reading about the good the club could do, but he's abandoned that and realized the harm the club is doing to him. Lets not forget, the only reason Jax is even still a member of the club is because he has to be right now The guy wants out. He just didn't want the club to die as a result. That inability to choose between the club and his family led to problems, just like it did with Opie. In the end, Opie didn't care about the club dying, he cared more about his actual family and getting vengence. Now, thanks to his death, it appears Jax shares that mindset.

[MalaCloudy Black]

Couple things:

fr34k, I like that theory and want it to be true because I like Opie and - like I said - felt like there was still more story to be done with the character, but I don't know if you saw the preview for next week's episode. There was a brief moment of what appeared to be a wake for Opie. EDIT: And that theory kind of hinges on those 4 guys not realizing they didn't beat Opie to death. And then the guards, who I would assume have to move the body, not realizing he's not dead. I don't know what would make me more sad, Opie dying or if Sutter and co. deus ex'ed him back to life.

Also, there are photos of Ashley Tisdale's character Emma Jean on the back of someone's bike, so I doubt this is the only episode she'll be in. Why do people think that, anyway? Because Nero said she left? Doesn't mean it's her only episode.

ALSO also, I don't think Jax is that willing to sell Tig out. There was a sort of ambiguity in that part, I thought. I felt like he was just saying that to try and earn a little bit of - trust? I guess? - from Pope, but that he's not really going to hand Tig over to him after it's all said and done. We'll see, though.

[Your Mom]

fr34k has no soul! How does that not effect you?

[OctoberRaven]

I see Ope's sacrifice as something a bit different, at least from Ope's perspective. I don't think Ope was so much teaching Jax a lesson as just giving up. He's been hurt so much by everyone he was close to (well, Piney only by his death, but you get what I mean here), and feels Jax is going to do the same. He just can't deal with it anymore. He's taking a stand like Piney did, only he's sacrificing himself so nobody else has to.

[Maxx]

I see Ope's sacrifice as something a bit different, at least from Ope's perspective. I don't think Ope was so much teaching Jax a lesson as just giving up. He's been hurt so much by everyone he was close to (well, Piney only by his death, but you get what I mean here), and feels Jax is going to do the same. He just can't deal with it anymore. He's taking a stand like Piney did, only he's sacrificing himself so nobody else has to.

I'm not saying he intentionally set out to teach Jax a lesson this way, I'm saying the whole thing was a plot device used to do that.

[LL!]

I am completely on Maxx's side in this one.

First of all, killing off characters to evolve other characters isn't something stupid. Characters are driven by more than one thing throughout the course of a story. Jax is primarily driven by his family, but he's also driven by the club and his strong allegiance to Opie. In a sense, Opie is an extension of Jax, especially when you take a look at how similar their arcs are. By the end Opie's run he wanted out of the club (twice), lost his father, and lost his wife. Jax currently wants out of the club, lost his father, and has almost lost his wife. Both thanks to Clay, by the way. Opie's story is so entrenched in Jax's story that it only makes sense that Opie is a huge influence on Jax. It makes perfect sense that Jax was blinded by what he truly needed to do until Opie, essentially his conscious, sacrificed himself to get Jax to understand. Opie felt like he had nothing left. He told Lyla he doesn't know if he loves anything anymore. He never wanted to see his kids; it hurt too much. Donna is all he really cared about, and his kids were an extension of her. He lost her, and he couldn't see his kids the same again. Then he lost his dad, at the hands of Clay. Clay being the President of the club, he felt like he lost the club. Opie's character was done and now Jax has a clear vision of what he needs to do. He needs to make things right, not just for his family and the club, but, now, for Opie. Opie can't die in vain.

And you wanna talk about lazy writing? Let's kill off a character and bring him back. That's lazy writing. That wild theory is so crazy, it'd really be a huge put off. Not to mention, it'd be full of holes.

Killing off Clay at the end of season 4 would've killed the main story arc of the series. Clay is causing mayhem with these home invasions, and still has outside cards he can play. Maybe he's not as functioning as he once was thanks to Opie, but he still wields quite a bit of power. You see characters use leverage so much in this series. Clay has major leverage over the club right now. He may not be president, but he holds the cards to the club's demise. As soon as Clay feels that he can no longer use outside sources to his advantage, he's going to try and set the club on fire in a way that mirrors a god destroying his own creation. And that's going to be season 7. And it's going to make for excellent television. I can't wait to see it.

[LL!]

For the record, Opie's death shook me to the core. Opie is, obviously, a huge fan favorite and it's always tough to see one of those go. As soon as Pope laid out his plan, I knew it was Opie that needed to die because Chibbs, not being in a bigger storyline at the moment, would've been an anticlimax. Much like seeing Tig suffer for his mistakes also shook me because while I knew it was deserved in an "eye for an eye" way, it was still so cold and callous. You weren't supposed to care about Tig's daughter, you were supposed to care about Tig and how he feels at that moment. Tig is, essentially, a failed father and a misguided soul. Acting on a whim cost him one of the things he cared about the most, something he regretted not cherishing while he still could. Seeing him break down, the incredibly tough guy that he is, was heartbreaking.

[fr34k]

Couple things:

fr34k, I like that theory and want it to be true because I like Opie and - like I said - felt like there was still more story to be done with the character, but I don't know if you saw the preview for next week's episode. There was a brief moment of what appeared to be a wake for Opie. EDIT: And that theory kind of hinges on those 4 guys not realizing they didn't beat Opie to death. And then the guards, who I would assume have to move the body, not realizing he's not dead. I don't know what would make me more sad, Opie dying or if Sutter and co. deus ex'ed him back to life.

Also, there are photos of Ashley Tisdale's character Emma Jean on the back of someone's bike, so I doubt this is the only episode she'll be in. Why do people think that, anyway? Because Nero said she left? Doesn't mean it's her only episode.

ALSO also, I don't think Jax is that willing to sell Tig out. There was a sort of ambiguity in that part, I thought. I felt like he was just saying that to try and earn a little bit of - trust? I guess? - from Pope, but that he's not really going to hand Tig over to him after it's all said and done. We'll see, though.

Partly in response to Cloudy as well as LL:

Fully agreed Cloudy - like I said, the theory is completely out of the way, and like LL mentioned full of plotholes, BUT and this is where Cloudy and I agree and the rest of you don't - I'd much rather have a wild twist, totally ridiculous but true to the character of Jax always finding some way out or an angle that he can play (which you can make a case for happened with his play with Tigg) AND something that is true to the Opie character. I don't get Opie's self-destructive behavior, even in the last couple of episodes. To me, Opie was always the one good guy, the guy who fought against all odds to do the right thing, never giving up. And it seems weird to me, that on a show that is all about increasing violence, that one of the first important members to die is Opie - yes Sutter loved inflicting pain on him, but he always seemed like the one guy who would never give up despite everything, so sacrificing himself did not make sense to me at all (from Opie's point of view, I understand the arguments that it was important for Jax's character, but that's not what it should be about, like I said).

Again, to LL. I'm not saying that a character death in general is lazy writing (and it will always advance the plot in some ways) and yes, my theory is completely ridiculous (I never said it was going to be true, especially since it's also insulting to the fans) I just brought it up because I don't feel like this was the right end for Opie's character - it makes a certain sense for Jax, but then we are arguing again that the death was used to bring the plot forward (not in totally uninteresting directions) but I believe, and you may think differently, that this was not the right end for Opie and that's why I didn't "feel" it. I thought he was the one guy worthy of some kind of, let's say redemption, on this show and he now didn't get it for reasons that didn't make sense to me. You can now say, well boy, the real world isn't working like that either, but than the whole series would fall to pieces.

EDIT: It seems like Sutter agrees with you guys.

Edited September 27, 2012 by fr34k

[LL!]

I'm happy to read that Sutter thing cause it does a bit of a better job explaining this situation for me. I don't understand what's not to get about Opie "giving up." Which I think is worded wrong cause I don't think he gave up. He had no love left for anyone or anything, but that's just the nature of human sensibility. How would you feel if you lost your wife and your father from one year to another? How would you feel if you knew that both of those came from the club full of guys you loved so much? Not to mention the DECISION MAKERS of the club. And when you're trying to turn your life around with your new wife, you find out you guys aren't on the same page? Granted, it wasn't properly thought out, but at this point he was desperate. You said it yourself, Sutter loved to inflict pain on Opie. The extent of that pain would crush any man. I lost my father. I know how that feels. I couldn't imagine losing him under the circumstances Opie did. Lump that in with everything else, and you become a broken man. I feel like you might be blinded by how much you actually liked Opie and how much you don't want him to go to realize that.

But back to the point. Opie went out in the grandest of ways given the circumstances. If Opie was gonna go, he was going to do so for the one person he truly cared about. When Jax was going to go in there and end himself for the sake of his club, Opie couldn't let him. Jax had too much to live for, Opie didn't. And Opie sacrificed himself nobly, leading Jax to the realization of how he needs to handle things, and, thus, leading to that moment you wanted where Jax finds a play to use against Pope.

Opie will get his redemption. He got his two shots in on Clay, which is more than most showrunners would do for a supporting character, but, obviously, that isn't enough. Through Jax, Opie will be able to rest in peace. Jax must be the one to kill Clay for all his transgressions, and, through that, Opie will find redemption.

And on a somewhat unrelated matter:

WTF HALF SACK?! http://abcnews.go.com/US/sons-anarchy-actor-johnny-lewis-found-dead/story?id=17336120#.UGRtgFEkXTp

[MalaCloudy Black]

Woah, what the fuck.

[TKz]

Finally watching the latest episode. Harold Perrineau should slap the writers of Lost. I had him being pegged as awful for all these years... turns out he's fantastic.

[Steeb]

It freaked me out that he was Mercutio.

Incredible season thus far. My God.

[EndOfAnEra]

So did anyone watch episode 4? Seemed like just a transitional episode to me. Also:

i get that Jax is supposed to be level-headed, but am I the only one getting sick of his "no retaliation" policy? Your best friend just died, at least start looking into how to get at Pope.