The Star Wars Thread

[Benjamin]

I rewatched everything over the past three or so weeks, including Rogue One, and I got to say, Star Wars is pretty terrible  I only really like the newer ones in Rogue One and the Force Awakens. Both the main protagonists are just so much more compelling and bad ass as characters than Luke ever was. Rey and Jyn are just amazing, they're so much more likeable and incredible to get behind. 

[Colly]

Get out. 

[Skummy]

16 hours ago, Maxx said:

So we're rewatching the good ones leading up to Last Jedi and we just did Empire last night.  Wow and damn, there is a huge difference between Yoda in Empire and Yoda in the prequels.  I like to think he was driven crazy by years in isolation.  This is the best Yoda.  

Yoda is pretty much the biggest example of Lucas clearly just not "getting" his own characters, and drastically changing the character from the original films to the prequels. His is a weird mischievous imp when he first shows up, but only because he's teaching Luke a lesson about not judging based on appearances - and the odd syntax is, mostly, just a part of that. Then he becomes more of a Zen master, largely preaching avoidance of violence and so on.

By the prequels he's saying utter nonsense like "up with this I will not put", and having big flashy lightsaber battles - now, did you ever get the impression in Empire or Jedi that Yoda was somehow who ever used a lightsaber? He lifts X-Wings with the power of his mind, he's not some great sodding warrior.

15 hours ago, Adam said:

And I will say it again, another re-watch brings me no closer to understanding why people love Boba Fett. He says basically nothing in the whole film, does nothing useful bar follow the Falcon to Cloud City, and dies the death of a total chump in Jedi. If we're talking cool guys who go under the radar, the conversation starts and ends with Wedge.

Boba Fett is such a mystery. As a kid I loved him, because he's bad-ass bounty hunter with a cool action figure, and felt that his death was really unfair for such a "cool" character, but he does nothing in the entire series. And crowbarring Jango Fett into the prequels always just felt like George Lucas had been taken aback by how popular Boba Fett was, and the best way he could come up with to retrofit him into the prequels was, "oh, it can be his Dad" - rather than being creative enough to realise that no one knows what Boba Fett looks like under the armour, or what a "Mandalorian Guard" actually is, so he could have easily just shown up as himself, and been fleshed out enough to justify his reputation in the original trilogy. But nah, everyone is everyone's Dad.

[Colly]

I could've bought Yoda as a fighter (he is a Jedi Knight after all) but I'd have much preferred a slow more considered dueler than a spinny CGI Kermit. 

[Skummy]

I was always just got the impression that there are Jedi, and there are Jedi Knights, and the two aren't necessarily the same thing. Yoda's whole character seemed to be one who would rather think his way out of a situation, or who had focused his abilities in a different area of the Force, rather than on wielding a lightsaber with any proficiency. Watching Empire and Jedi, I never once got the impression that either Yoda or Palpatine would be characters likely to have an acrobatic, crazy lightsaber duel, or need to wield a lightsaber at all, because they had other ways of solving their problems.

There's also the issue with the timeline in general - the prequels are presented as if they must have happened decades and decades before the original trilogy, with the Jedi and the Force only being a legend in the present day, despite the events of the prequels actually only having happened 18-20 years earlier at most (Force Awakens, of course, has the same issue) - so we see Yoda, in the space of 18-20 years, go from flying around and somersaulting to having to make Luke Skywalker carry him in a papoose.

[Benjamin]

59 minutes ago, Have a Colly Jolly Xmas said:

Get out. 

Sorry! I'll leave you with your Luke Skywalker and his "Uncle Owen! I want to go be a pilot, okay?! Aw, shucks, let me go Uncle Owen! Let me go be with my friends! This droid's got a bad motivator!"  

[Colly]

Do that. 

[livid]

12 hours ago, Benjamin said:

I rewatched everything over the past three or so weeks, including Rogue One, and I got to say, Star Wars is pretty terrible  I only really like the newer ones in Rogue One and the Force Awakens. Both the main protagonists are just so much more compelling and bad ass as characters than Luke ever was. Rey and Jyn are just amazing, they're so much more likeable and incredible to get behind. 

I actually agree, though to a lesser extent with The Force Awakens. It's not bad but I'm really only interested in The Last Jedi because Rian Johnson's directing.

[Hobo]

This is long but it's interesting. Especially if you like editing.

[Bigal]

No spoilers, but I went to see it last night. I enjoyed it more on reflection that I did at the time, I think - definitely want to go again.

In all honesty, I probably just overhyped myself, as it was a really good film. Couple of things don't really work, but I think it does a good job of being Star Wars while also doing enough differently to allow the franchise to go off in different ways in the future.

[lanky316]

There is an odd feeling about it I got afterwards, I enjoyed it but it had niggles that I can't really put my finger on. When I've woken up a bit more I'll try and put it into words better but for now I'll stick with "good film, perhaps too cute at times for its own good".

[stokeriño]

(Hoping this is sufficiently spoiler-less.)

I could probably split the film up into 6 or 7 segments that would run the pattern of "Amazing - Okay - Amazing - Okay - Amazing...".

I did really enjoy it. There are plenty of things I could niggle at, but then if I applied that kind of attitude to the original trilogy they would get torn to shreds. Hence I have very little inclination to do so.

Also, I came out of Force Awakens a bit annoyed of how much of a pastiche of New Hope it was...but while this had many, many beats plucked from both Empire and Return (I guess I can no longer refer to Episode 6 as 'Jedi' because that would be confusing?!), it was mixed up enough and had PLENTY of major subversions that prevented that problem from reoccurring. So yeah, good stuff.

Mark Hamill was brilliant throughout. Po's character was pretty strongly developed, but Finn much less so. All of Kylo Ren's plot/character points were so much better than in Force Awakens, and the interaction between him and Rey were some of the best parts of the film. General Hux continues to be so utterly out of place (like a ginger beacon amidst a sea of black, white and grey ) but I can't help but find him great fun to have around. 

 

[Just Joe]

Overall I enjoyed it but think there's a few parts that just didn't work or felt out of place. 

Spoiler

Leia freezing out in space, "dying" and then coming back to life and developing the ability to fly was a bit too far for me. We still have no clue who Snoke is, maybe he's "just" a Sith Lord but it always felt there was a secret to his true identity but that could just be down to internet theories/discussion.  Also feel like they tried to lift traits or scenes from other Franchises, the mirror scene with Rey was Harry Potteresque and also Matrix Luke. There was no real explanation into who Rey is either, which I thought we'd get in this film or is Rey just Rey? It felt like they were leading to Ben/Rey being Twins much like Luke and Leia but they revealed that was Snoke tricking both of them.

 

[stokeriño]

Spoiler

I didn't mind Leia using the Force to pull herself back into the ship (she wouldn't have been quite dead after just a few seconds' exposure anyway). The way it was shot looked silly though - very Mary Poppins.

I have to say, Rey being the daughter of nobody important was something I had been hoping for. I too feared they were building to a brother/sister reveal (even though I couldn't fathom how that would make sense), but I'm so glad in the end her parentage wasn't a 'thing'. It always felt like a 'because that's what we expect from Star Wars' kind of plot trap, and pretty much any of the possible alternative theories about it would have either resulted in a groan or an "eh, so what?" from me.

Am I the only one who was kind of hoping that Lando would turn up on the casino planet?  

 

[Just Joe]

Spoiler

I'm fine with Rey just being Rey, just thought it was odd how she was all who am I, who are my parents? and then Ben says, "aye you're no one and you're parents are no one you've always known" and she goes along with it that didn't really work, she doesn't have to be related to anyone at all but still feel like she is tbh. Again I think they've massively underplayed Snoke but again there's another movie to come so can't be sure if he's gone. 

The best scene was the bit with the Iron.

 

[Maxx]

Imagine how good the prequels would have been if an actor as good as Adam Driver had been playing Anakin. 

[Just Joe]

55 minutes ago, Maxx said:

Imagine how good the prequels would have been if an actor as good as Adam Driver had been playing Anakin. 

Even the best actor would struggle to do well with the way Anakin was written.

[zero]

Saw it twice... loved it both times. 

I've never seen a movie of this magnitude so unafraid of dividing its audience. It all worked perfectly for me though and fits in with the original trilogy and the new films. More thoughts!

Spoiler

I love how no one takes Hux seriously, even though he's the only one that's actually doing his job. Snoke, Kylo, and even Phasma are far too concerned with petty squabbles while Hux is like, "but no, we could literally destroy them right now. This very second. Guys. Guys. Eyes on the prize. Guys. Goddammit." No wonder why he's overcompensating so much.

Luke being bitter is probably the most divisive thing in the movie, but he's right. The Jedi order, the proper Jedi order, was arrogant, vain and obsessed with rules and tradition and it led to their downfall and disrupted the balance in The Force. I love the conflicting stories about what happened with Kylo, and once again showing that the truth is somewhere in a grey area.

Rose and Finn's subplot felt a little rushed, but I loved Rose as a character. 

In fact, the movie should've been called "Men Who Make Dumb Decisions and the Women Who Save Them." Poe's lesson was one of my favorite arcs in the movie and Laura Dern was a great twist on the "the bureaucrat obsessed with the rules just needs a cocky guy who gets things done!" trope. Man, her finale was just awesome and how have we not had a lightspeed crash like that in Star Wars yet?

Love the link between Kylo and Rey. Them joining up was one of the biggest jump out of my seat and cheer moments in the history of the franchise.

People also seem mad about the Snoke twist... I don't get it. I never found the character interesting and a new Emperor just seemed like doing a new Death Star. It was a good twist that blew up the story in a way I never saw coming. "Yeah, but who is he?!" He's some asshole that seized power when there was a power vacuum. A tale as old as time.

The whole finale on Crait was super intense... there is just this sense of dread that lingers over the whole movie. The film never lets you have even a shred of hope, the Rebellion can't win here, all they can do is run. Even when Luke finally shows up to save the day, it's another subversion of a familiar trope, as all he could really do was buy them time. The Jedi won't end, but one Jedi can't stop all this.

And that's challenging for audiences. You can't just sneak onto a ship and power down the McGuffin this time. We can't just use the Force. An Empire doesn't fall just because the Emperor is killed. This isn't Han, Luke and Leia. This is a new threat. A new story. And it doesn't play by the rules we have come to expect.

And yes, so glad Rey's parents are no one. "No.... Obi-Wan is your father!" or something would've been overkill.

Loved seeing Yoda. Loved watching Leia's powers finally awaken in a moment of extreme duress. PORGS! It all just clicked for me.

 

[Hellraiser]

Saw it a few hours ago. Biggest disappointment of the year by me by far. So many plotholes. So much wasted potential. 

[Red Devil-Taker316]

40 minutes ago, zero said:

Saw it twice... loved it both times. 

I've never seen a movie of this magnitude so unafraid of dividing its audience. It all worked perfectly for me though and fits in with the original trilogy and the new films. More thoughts!

  Hide contents

I love how no one takes Hux seriously, even though he's the only one that's actually doing his job. Snoke, Kylo, and even Phasma are far too concerned with petty squabbles while Hux is like, "but no, we could literally destroy them right now. This very second. Guys. Guys. Eyes on the prize. Guys. Goddammit." No wonder why he's overcompensating so much.

Luke being bitter is probably the most divisive thing in the movie, but he's right. The Jedi order, the proper Jedi order, was arrogant, vain and obsessed with rules and tradition and it led to their downfall and disrupted the balance in The Force. I love the conflicting stories about what happened with Kylo, and once again showing that the truth is somewhere in a grey area.

Rose and Finn's subplot felt a little rushed, but I loved Rose as a character. 

In fact, the movie should've been called "Men Who Make Dumb Decisions and the Women Who Save Them." Poe's lesson was one of my favorite arcs in the movie and Laura Dern was a great twist on the "the bureaucrat obsessed with the rules just needs a cocky guy who gets things done!" trope. Man, her finale was just awesome and how have we not had a lightspeed crash like that in Star Wars yet?

Love the link between Kylo and Rey. Them joining up was one of the biggest jump out of my seat and cheer moments in the history of the franchise.

People also seem mad about the Snoke twist... I don't get it. I never found the character interesting and a new Emperor just seemed like doing a new Death Star. It was a good twist that blew up the story in a way I never saw coming. "Yeah, but who is he?!" He's some asshole that seized power when there was a power vacuum. A tale as old as time.

The whole finale on Crait was super intense... there is just this sense of dread that lingers over the whole movie. The film never lets you have even a shred of hope, the Rebellion can't win here, all they can do is run. Even when Luke finally shows up to save the day, it's another subversion of a familiar trope, as all he could really do was buy them time. The Jedi won't end, but one Jedi can't stop all this.

And that's challenging for audiences. You can't just sneak onto a ship and power down the McGuffin this time. We can't just use the Force. An Empire doesn't fall just because the Emperor is killed. This isn't Han, Luke and Leia. This is a new threat. A new story. And it doesn't play by the rules we have come to expect.

And yes, so glad Rey's parents are no one. "No.... Obi-Wan is your father!" or something would've been overkill.

Loved seeing Yoda. Loved watching Leia's powers finally awaken in a moment of extreme duress. PORGS! It all just clicked for me.

 

I like to think of film sagas like pro wrestling sometimes. Put it this way. I wasn't completely feeling the booking of Kylo Ren in the Force Awakens. Got beat by someone who never used a lightsaber, etc. Snoke meanwhile, got over as the big bad Emperor-type....and in The Last Jedi Kylo Ren goes over him suddenly and decisively with no questions asked. Great booking of Kylo Ren. Arguably the best decision of all of Star Wars to put the focus squarely on Kylo Ren on the Dark Side of things.