2013 NFL Season Thread

[gunnar hendershow]

Yeah ESPN's just trying to stir up some ratings from the New England media market with this.

[Plubby]

Pats totally got screwed at the end there

No they didn't, Gronk was no where near where the ball ended up, and wouldn't have been even without the pushing.

There is no way you can know that.

I guess it depends on whether or not the requirement for PI requires a receiver to be denied a certain catch, or merely denied an attempt to play the ball, but he was indisputably denied a chance to go get that ball. Gronk was curling in and it is at the very least going to be able to make that a jump ball (metaphorically speaking, no jumping would be required) As I said though, if the rule doesn't work like that, then picking it up was probably right.

[Your Mom]

That was a shit call last night. No question

[Maxx]

No, it wasn't. Watch the play again. No pushing, Gronk would still have been behind where the ball ended up. Considering it ended up in the hands of the Panthers and not on the ground, that makes it an uncatchable pass, and thus, no pass interference.

If that ball ended up on the ground, then you've got a case. As it was, the ball never would have made it to Gronk because it got cleanly picked off.

[livid]

I don't think it should've been called but picking up the flag after calling it is kind of lame. Glad the Patriots lost though. Don't think I could stand a week of ESPN's "DID YOU SEE THAT GAME? TOM BRADY IS GOD!" bullshit.

[Meacon Keaton]

Eeeeeee, there should have definitely been a penalty. Maybe not interference but Kuechly was molesting Gronk.

[Your Mom]

The guy practically tackled Gronk to the ground. Earlier they called one against the Patriots that also wasnt catchable. I just dont get the difference

[gunnar hendershow]

For Gronk to make a play on the ball he more than likely would have gotten OPI since the defender had that position completely locked up. Gronk would have come in from the top and had to push the player out of his position to even have a shot at the ball.

It's a lot different than had the ball landed on the ground, and the flag was picked up because it didn't land on the ground.

[Meacon Keaton]

Right, but you can't say that Gronk couldn't have made a play on that had he not been basically hugged and removed from the play.

Whether it was pass interference or defensive holding or illegal touching down field, there was definitely a penalty out there. I hate New England as much as the next guy, but they should have had another play.

I didn't watch the game, I caught the play at a sub shop, on ESPN while waiting for my sandwich to be made. A big issue I'm hearing is that the officials were strict with their calls all game and this last play was also very inconsistent with what they'd been doing all game.

[gunnar hendershow]

From what I saw of the game the referees were strict but also inconsistent throughout the game.

Patriots learned the hard way you need to keep the game out of the refs hands though, I believe Brady even said this in his post-game interview.

[NobBe Nobbs]

You can't, but the critical thing and something few people anywhere realise is that for pass interference to be called, there has to be a chance the receiver could make the catch. I don't have it on hand, but somebody on KSK provided a screenshot of one of the replays. Gronk is obviously being held, but he's nowhere near the ball or where he'd have to be to make the catch, and on top of that the Panthers DB is closer. For Gronk to make the catch, even without the hold, he'd have had to cause pass interference himself by getting in the DB's way.

Also, the Patriots have been getting bullshit calls their way for years, so fuck them and fuck all their fans whining about it. You're worse than the Bruins fans, who'll defend their guys and their filthy behaviour but bay for blood the second somebody looks at Tuukka Rask the wrong way.

[Your Mom]

Isnt it holding then and the INT should be negated? Or is it just because they thought he couldn't catch it then it doesnt matter what the Carolina guy did to him?

[Meacon Keaton]

Yes, that's the point I'm making. It's not pass interference, but it's definitely a penalty. Be it holding or illegal touching downfield.

[livid]

The only thing they could really call was pass interference. Holding and illegal contact happen before the ball is thrown. Kuechly was definitely impeding his path to the ball but they must have thought it was uncatchable so they didn't call it.

[HC]

As a victim of the Seattle Screwjob last year, I can't bring myself to give a shit about the Patriots here.

[Your Mom]

It shouldn't matter which team got screwed if it's a bad call though

[Maxx]

It wasn't a bad call.

[Cactus Drags]

Eeeeeee, there should have definitely been a penalty. Maybe not interference but Kuechly was molesting Gronk.

DPI was the only call possible, holding or can only be called before the throw or with the QB still in the pocket. But DPI doesn't apply because the ball was uncatchable short of Gronk phasigng through the Panthers DB, and I'm pretty sure that would have resulted in OPI.

[Plubby]

It wasn't a bad call.

If you keep saying this enough and you believe it enough, it may eventually come true, I believe in you Maxx!!

I don't really, you're still wrong.

My fundamental disagreement with the the refs' explanation here is on when the contact was initiated - I think it was far earlier than what they're claiming (which was basically at the point of the image that's going round the net of two guys dancing the tango).

My fundamental disagreement with what's being written by some of you is that you seem to be assuming that if no contact is made, that Gronk is only capable of continuing on the trajectory that he was travelling immediately before contact and wouldn't be able to complete the comeback/curl and get himself involved in the play. I think that what's being missed that the defender is slowing down Gronk's speed and that if he hadn't interfered that Gronk is athletic enough to be able to compete in that play. I don't think that the distance from the play is a mitigating factor when you consider that the defender angles Gronk away from the play at an angle perpendicular to how Gronk was travelling at point of contact, and not only that, he is pulled/pushed directly away from the ball. Gronk had curled left to right (possibly even attempting a curl route as I alluded to earlier) as the ball is travelling top-to-bottom (again using the famous huggy bear shot as a frame of reference - from the back of the end zone facing Brady.) The contact is made with Gronk before the defender jumps the route and what those of you who've seen the play (and as i'm sure Maxx would have seen too, being the one who has assumed the mantle of telling people to watch the play) the intercepting defender has to dodge around the entanglement to make the play - the other defender actually pulls Gronk into the path of the intercepting defender and he has to sidestep the whole thing.

Arguably if initial contact is not made then the intercepting defender would have to get around Gronk completing his route to intercept the ball - and as I said in the last post, I think that this becomes a metaphorical jump ball if no contact is made with Gronk. Gronk's a big dude to have to move around after all.

[Lint]

I read this earlier on why it wasn't a bad call

The flag on Kuechly, quickly picked up, was for defensive pass interference, and not the lesser fouls of illegal contact or defensive holding. This is very much an important distinction, because only a DPI call requires the ball to be catchable. Had one of the latter two been called, the ball's proximity to Gronkowskior lack thereofwouldn't have mattered, and the Patriots would have had one more shot. But as excellently broken down here, pass interference is the only penalty that could have been called correctly, since the ball was in the air when the contact occurred.

Let's go further, and stipulate that the referees were quite cleareventuallyabout why the flag was picked up. Here's referee Clete Blakeman, walking two pool reporters through the play:

The back judge saw that there was contact and the defender was not playing the ball and that led him to throw for defensive pass inference, was the initial call.

There were two officials that came in. One was the umpire and the other one was our side judge and there was a discussion at that point as to the, in essence, the catchability of the ball due to its location. So it was determined at that point in time that when the primary contact occurred on the tight end that the ball, in essence, was coming in underthrown and in essence it was immediate at that point intercepted at the front end of the end zone. So there was a determination that, in essence, uncatchability, that the ball was intercepted at or about the same time the primary contact against the receiver occurred.

Expand

The back judge saw the contact between Kuechly and Gronkowski, and threw his flag. He wasn't paying attention to Tom Brady's releasethat's not his jobor to the flight of the ball. Two other officials came in and overruled him, declaring that the ball couldn't and wouldn't have been caught anyway, and that was that.