Euro 2016 qualifiers

[METALMAN]

goddamn it Norway

But it's not over yet! After all, maybe Croatia will get themselves DQed.

Croatia's check board flag (and thus their kit) was used by Croatian nazis in the Second World Was who killed a LOT of people. It was outlawed by Tito and then revived in the early 1990's as part of the nationalist wave that swept through Yugoslavia.

The point of that story being Croatia's flag and kit are symbols of nazism as well. So I can't say I'm that surprised by the swatstika.

Well that's made me far less sad that I didn't pick up that awesome Nike home kit they had about a decade or so ago.

I used to love true Croatia kit until I found this out. I'm still kind of gutted about it.

That's dumb. The red and white chequered pattern and the basis of the coat of arms have existed for centuries. The fact that nazis choose to appropriate it doesn't make it a nazi symbol.

The BNP used to use the British flag whenever they could. That doesn't mean the British flag ought to be considered a symbol of the BNP.

[Colly]

Yay!

[Bobfoc]

Good point for Northern Ireland, and Faroe Islands managed to beat Greece 2-1.

[Lineker]

France lost to Albania.

[Twist]

goddamn it Norway

But it's not over yet! After all, maybe Croatia will get themselves DQed.

Croatia's check board flag (and thus their kit) was used by Croatian nazis in the Second World Was who killed a LOT of people. It was outlawed by Tito and then revived in the early 1990's as part of the nationalist wave that swept through Yugoslavia.

The point of that story being Croatia's flag and kit are symbols of nazism as well. So I can't say I'm that surprised by the swatstika.

Well that's made me far less sad that I didn't pick up that awesome Nike home kit they had about a decade or so ago.

I used to love true Croatia kit until I found this out. I'm still kind of gutted about it.

That's dumb. The red and white chequered pattern and the basis of the coat of arms have existed for centuries. The fact that nazis choose to appropriate it doesn't make it a nazi symbol.

The BNP used to use the British flag whenever they could. That doesn't mean the British flag ought to be considered a symbol of the BNP.

The BNP didn't fly the Union flag over concentration camps while murdering ethnic minorities from their own country (Serbs in this case). They also didn't revive the flag forty years later in the knowledge it would put those same Serb minorities on edge and make them feel persecuted again in their own homeland. The two are not comparable.

And because a symbol has existed for hundreds of years doesn't mean it can't inherit new conotations. The swastika should be proof enough of that. The check board might not be the most prominent of Nazi symbols, and it definitely isn't worldwide, but it definitely does still carry memories of Nazism across the former states of Yugoslavia. A lot of Serbs out there that will immediately link the check board with nazism

It most certainly isn't 'dumb'.

[METALMAN]

No, sorry, it is dumb. And my comparison does stand. Perhaps not if we are looking at the relative seriousness of the acts carried out by Croatian fascists versus the more stunted actions of the BNP, but that's something that you've inferred. It wasn't my point.

My point is that just as we ought to be aware that any symbolic significance of the BNP using British flag is diluted by the greater cultural context of the other uses of the flag over the last 200 years, the same must apply to Croatian fascists and their use of symbols of Croatian identity such as the chequered pattern and the nation's coat of arms.

For these symbols have been associated with Croatia for centuries. They have been as central to Croatian identity as the shamrock to Ireland or the golden eagle to Mexico. For centuries. As symbols of the Croatian nation, it is only natural that they are going to be appropriated by far-right Croatian nationalists. Just the same way as far-right nutjobs have used treasured national emblems in so many other countries. The thing is, these are symbols of Croatia and that is by far their most significant context.

To suggest that these symbols - which have redolent of Croatia for centuries - are actually those of a genocidal far-right movement is offensive to the multitudes of Croatians who fly their flag and wear their strip for no reason other than to support their country in a football match. It is narrow minded. And dumb.

[Cymbols]

Stay classy English fan

[Cymbols]

Great finish.

[Gazz]

I do understand how a professional footballer human being cannot throw a football at a target six yards away.

[Twist]

I do understand how a professional footballer human being cannot throw a football at a target six yards away.

Making an assumption there that Phil Jones is of this world.

[Liam]

Excellent move and finish.

[Colly]

Two crackers there. Wowsers.

[Berober]

What a beauty.

[Colly]

Something something traction engine.

[unitedツ]

Disgraceful from Slovenia #5. Not even booked.

[TCO]

Jack Wilshere would really be a great player if he could stay fit and stop being a complete knob.

[Cymbols]

Disgraceful from Slovenia #5. Not even booked.

Total overreaction from the commentators though, yellow at worst.

[Berober]

Rooneh!

[TCO]

That was just a case of noted Irishman Andy Townsend being a completely biased bellend and overreacting. There was no real malice in, should have been booked though.

[Whisper]

"Rooney has won it for England".

There's a good 8 minutes left yet Clive.