NCAA Football 2014 Thread

[Plubby]

Baylor is the champion because they won on the field. That's the first tiebreaker!

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=1546006

Those are not the big 12 bylaws you have linked to. Further, that document is not used to determine a conference champion. The page you linked to quite specifically says what it's for. That's the requirements for tie-breakers when the Big-12 sends a competitor to the Sugar Bowl, which it does when the Sugar Bowl does not host a playoff game (as it is this year). In the event that the Sugar Bowl does host a playoff game (as it is this year), then an alternate game picks up the slack, which is why Baylor got the specific game it did.

It is not a universal Big-12 Bylaw of any description, and it does not apply to conference champions.

HttK: Your post combined being either factually inaccurate (see above), treating a subjective measurement as fact ("what is annually one of the hardest places to play" - WVU has a sub-.500 record over the last three years at home, so that point is just worthless), or yet more examples of not measuring each teams accomplishments equally (admittedly an inherently subjective measurement), I think the crux of just how wrong I think you are is summarised by yourself:

OSU can be argued over one of them, but not both of them. Literally the maths used show that.

I guess I never thought to add up both of them. OSU is not better than that, you've got me there. The 22-2 Big-12 co-champions do have a better record on totality than an 12-1 team. Good luck with your outrage.

[HailtotheYo]

'K plubs ....

OSU can be argued over one of them, but not both of them. Literally the maths used show that.

I guess I never thought to add up both of them. OSU is not better than that, you've got me there. The 22-2 Big-12 co-champions do have a better record on totality than an 12-1 team. Good luck with your outrage.

I'm not going to spiral this thread into a whole bunch of quoting metrics ..... they're out there. OSU falls short of TCU in most of them, and is a coin flip with Baylor in most of them. Google and a myriad of articles on the subject will show that's the case.

[gunnar hendershow]

Only Cooper, Mariotta, and Gordon were invited to New York for the Heisman ceremony. Seems absurd that Boykin, even though he won't win, didn't get an invite.

Anyway, my friend thinks Cooper is winning whereas I think Mariotta is winning. It'd be nice to see Gordon win but I think the team's win-loss record will hurt him (on the topic of archaic metrics).

[Plubby]

HttK: You can roll your eyes and ignore where I showed where things you actually said are actually wrong all you like...but that doesn't mean you didn't say them!

You say that the metrics can put OSU above one of TCU or Baylor but not both of them! You said that! That is the actual thing I copied and pasted from your post! You don't get to combine Baylor and TCU together to defeat OSU and then only put one of them into the bowl! You...you just can't! There are no triple-threat bowl games!

[GhostMachine]

Only Cooper, Mariotta, and Gordon were invited to New York for the Heisman ceremony. Seems absurd that Boykin, even though he won't win, didn't get an invite.

Anyway, my friend thinks Cooper is winning whereas I think Mariotta is winning. It'd be nice to see Gordon win but I think the team's win-loss record will hurt him (on the topic of archaic metrics).

I think it'll be Mariota, but wouldn't be surprised if its Cooper. Gordon should be a lock for the Doak Walker Award, though. It'll be a crime if anyone else gets that one.

[TCO]

Mariota is 1/80 on Paddy Power to win, so yeah he's winning!

[HailtotheYo]

HttK: You can roll your eyes and ignore where I showed where things you actually said are actually wrong all you like...but that doesn't mean you didn't say them!

You say that the metrics can put OSU above one of TCU or Baylor but not both of them! You said that! That is the actual thing I copied and pasted from your post! You don't get to combine Baylor and TCU together to defeat OSU and then only put one of them into the bowl! You...you just can't! There are no triple-threat bowl games!

they eye roll was for the literal adding of TCU and Baylor together ... I'm pretty sure you're the only person that took the statement that way. That's not at all what I said though. I said that you could argue OhST against one or the other if you wanted, but it couldn't be done against both schools. You can ignore all of the metrics out there that show TCU above OhST and Baylor to be a coin flip.

You can also ignore the Big 12 commissioner flat out saying that "we use a tiebreaker to determine bowl representatives" ...... which, is what is stated in what DMN quoted. They declared co-champions yes ... but in determining placement head to head is the tiebreaker.

Or what Briles stated: "That was kind of the gist of the conversation. I mean, don't go public and say that we're going to present as co-champs if our bylaws say head-to-head determines who goes into a bowl game if neither one of us are in the top four."

[HailtotheYo]

Bowl Pick'Em

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[Plubby]

This started when I disagreed with you when you first wrote:

Baylor IS the Big 12 champion

Unless you meant this as a "I'M THE TAG TEAM CHAMPIONS" reference, then no, they're not "the" big 12 champs - they're one of two Big 12 champions. That was where I disagreed with your statement. You reinforced what you said, and by implication you continued to disagree with me. Particularly when you reiterated

Baylor is the Big12 champion.

You've now said the exact same sentence twice. I've proven that it's wrong as you've written it - but you continue to argue the point, justifying it because both times you also mention the bowl placement thing. You have, twice, linked the tiebreaker for bowl placements to being "the big 12 champions" - that quite pointedly is not how it works. Putting a false statement next to a true one does not make both true.

Briles also links the two statements - he quite pointedly states that (bolded for future reference) one shouldn't say that there are co-champions where Baylor receives preference for a bowl game. Well, bowl placement preference is (currently) irrelevant for who is the champion. Further, the CFP team are not required to consider who receives bowl preference, so it actually doesn't matter.

Now, if your point is simply that the statement I bolded is true - then that's an entirely different argument than the one I was making. And one that I think is worth having. I probably agree with him from a what should be perspective. However, you said that Baylor is THE Big 12 champion, I said "actually they aren't THE champion - only people from Baylor are saying that thing about bylaws and it isn't true" then you said "well actually the bylaws thing is true, see the link from DMN" and then I said "that only talks about bowls, not conference champions." I reiterate - I was only ever disputing your proclamation that they are THE champion. I was talking about what is currently the tiebreaking procedure for champions (there isn't one).

[Maxx]

Really seems like TCU's loss weighed heavier than all the rest, which is ridiculous considering it was to a team that ended up ranked higher than them.

[gunnar hendershow]

Really seems like TCU's loss weighed heavier than all the rest, which is ridiculous considering it was to a team that ended up ranked higher than them.

Ohio State actually lost to the 1999 Virginia Tech squad, it all makes sense now.

[gunnar hendershow]

Bowl Pick'Em

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Is this Bowl Mania on ESPN? It's not letting me search for EWB, it must be longer than four characters. That said, it is letting me rejoin last year's group.

[DMN in the House]

TCU had the best loss out of any of them, but outside of the Big XII pandering for a playoff spot, they wouldn't be champion in any league that ever had a round robin because first tiebreaker between two teams is always head to head. That's the fucking point of a round robin schedule!

Plubby can argue semantics all he wants, but with neither team going to the playoffs, Baylor gets the championship slot because, logic dictates, they're the conference champions.

OSU still didn't belong because they have a worse loss and play in a worse conference, so I don't know why he chose that hill to die on.

Mariota is going to win the Heisman, he's gonna be the first overall pick, and Hundley is going to be a better pro quarterback, so there.

Finally, it pains me to say this, but go Ducks.

I just threw up in my mouth a little. Gah.

[gunnar hendershow]

Yeah I'm firmly in Oregon's corner for this whole thing. What a strange world we live in.

[DMN in the House]

Yeah, they're the evil Nike empire, but they do have really nice throwback unis, Donald Duck as a mascot, they're from the PAC-12, and most importantly they're not Alabama, the Buckeyes, or the Noles.

[HailtotheYo]

This started when I disagreed with you when you first wrote:

Baylor IS the Big 12 champion

Unless you meant this as a "I'M THE TAG TEAM CHAMPIONS" reference, then no, they're not "the" big 12 champs - they're one of two Big 12 champions. That was where I disagreed with your statement. You reinforced what you said, and by implication you continued to disagree with me. Particularly when you reiterated

Baylor is the Big12 champion.

You've now said the exact same sentence twice. I've proven that it's wrong as you've written it - but you continue to argue the point, justifying it because both times you also mention the bowl placement thing. You have, twice, linked the tiebreaker for bowl placements to being "the big 12 champions" - that quite pointedly is not how it works. Putting a false statement next to a true one does not make both true.

Briles also links the two statements - he quite pointedly states that (bolded for future reference) one shouldn't say that there are co-champions where Baylor receives preference for a bowl game. Well, bowl placement preference is (currently) irrelevant for who is the champion. Further, the CFP team are not required to consider who receives bowl preference, so it actually doesn't matter.

Now, if your point is simply that the statement I bolded is true - then that's an entirely different argument than the one I was making. And one that I think is worth having. I probably agree with him from a what should be perspective. However, you said that Baylor is THE Big 12 champion, I said "actually they aren't THE champion - only people from Baylor are saying that thing about bylaws and it isn't true" then you said "well actually the bylaws thing is true, see the link from DMN" and then I said "that only talks about bowls, not conference champions." I reiterate - I was only ever disputing your proclamation that they are THE champion. I was talking about what is currently the tiebreaking procedure for champions (there isn't one).

Right after your bolded statement ... I emphasized the next sentence .... because it was the CFPC that places the "new years 6" teams in bowls. Guess what they use ? Guess why Baylor is in the Cotton on Jan 1 and TCU is in the Peach on Dec 30 ? No, it isn't irrelevant and what was quoted in the bylaws states that the tiebreaker is head to head (as is shown by the bowl placement for Baylor and TCU) but for some reason doesn't apply if they're considered for the playoff. I should have out and stated it this way from the get go admittedly, and I apologize.

Bowl Pick'Em

Group EWB

password EWB

Is this Bowl Mania on ESPN? It's not letting me search for EWB, it must be longer than four characters. That said, it is letting me rejoin last year's group.

Yes it is ...

Also, it's pretty telling when the CFPC chairman has to state constantly that conference strength wasn't a determining factor (because you can't justify OhST if it is).

I'm going Noles or nothing here and it isn't because I'm an FSU fan ... it's because Fuck Bama and the Buckeyes .... and Oregon has become everything wrong with college football.

[DMN in the House]

Lol at Oregon being everything wrong with football when you're supporting the Noles.

[HailtotheYo]

Lol at Oregon being everything wrong with football when you're supporting the Noles.

One is a corporate whore and mass media fellation while the other is doing what is done by everyone and has been done since before my dad was born.

Big difference.

[Maxx]

Helping protect a rapist?

[DMN in the House]

Well, yeah.