2014 NFL Season

[Your Mom]

Kap needs to get over 300 total yards. 10k in Madden coins are on the line!

[Berober]

BLAINE GABBERT!

[Meacon Keaton]

I hope Plubby wasn't a butt-plug and took some pictures on this historical night.

[Plubby]

Took pictures.

Recorded the three downs leading up to it, including the Manning self-sack.

[DMN in the House]

Would it make me look like an asshole if I say that I don't think Peyton Manning is the greatest quarterback ever, with the bulk of that argument being the era he played in?

Imagine if Dan Marino had played in an era where you couldn't breathe on a receiver or a quarterback? He would have thrown for all the yards. ALL THE YARDS.

I'm going to hate saying this, but Peyton isn't even the greatest quarterback to play for the Broncos. John Elway is. Elway might have been the best combination of physical skills this side of, well, I guess Michael Vick, but I don't think anyone will try and argue that Vick is a better quarterback than Elway.

Shit, Dan Fouts would destroy teams in the era too. Steve Young... I could go on...

Stats, accomplishments, and ability all taken into account, I probably have Peyton (and Brady), somewhere between 4-8 on a list of all-time quarterbacks...

1. Marino

2. Montana

3. Elway

4a. Favre

4b. Brady

4c. Peyton

4d. Tarkenton

8. Aikman

9. Bradshaw

10. Unitas

I dunno... hard to talk about dudes I didn't see play (Tarkenton, Bradshaw, Unitas).

Honestly, I think that my problem isn't so much with Peyton Manning, who would have been a top of the league, Hall of Fame quarterback in any era, but with the rules. I hate the explosion of offense, and the de-emphasis of defense. I understand that dPeyefense, by it's very nature, is going to take a hit (no pun intended) in this era of concussion awareness, and I have absolutely no problem with the majority of the illegal hit rules put in place (though I do think that they go too far in protecting quarterbacks outside of blows to the head), but some of the rule changes in the passing game are...ugh...

Sorry, rant over. I miss defense.

[Plubby]

I mean, how many of 1 through 3 threw 111 touchdown passes after all but breaking their neck?

For those who have me on facebook, I uploaded the video of the record. It's on my phone so not the greatest quality.

Highlights include me calling the shot: "After a farcical second down, this has gotta be it."

[Mick]

The QB that got shafted in the greatness category was Warren Moon. Could've been the greatest the game's seen, but some asshole wanted him to be a tight end or a safety, and he said fuck that and went to Canada. Then he came to the NFL, and still put up Hall of Fame numbers.

Unitas is a class in his own. A lot of the old greats (Sammy Baugh, Sid Luckman) said Unitas was the best, and that's a hell of a thing for them to say. Unitas was a general on the field, called his own plays, was downright competetive, but by the time of the Super Bowl era, the game had largely passed him by (his one Super Bowl victory in Super Bowl V, his stats were kind of shit).

Then you get guys like Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw that won four Super Bowls, Jim Kelly with the hurry-up offense from hell calling plays on the fly (that took them to four fucking Super Bowls in a row), Tom Brady being the only QB to start in five Super Bowls, Drew Brees going apeshit, Favre being Favre, Kurt Warner lighting up the scoreboard. Or Warren Moon, who played for years in Canada, came back and put up Hall of Fame numbers against a ticking clock. Hell, guys like Bobby Layne,

It's hard to say who the greatest is. It's between Manning, Unitas and Montana for me. Winning a championship certainly helps the resume, but then again, you have guys like Dan Fouts that never went to the Super Bowl, and guys like Ken Stabler or Trent Dilfer (Hey, I love Dilfer, he was a staple of my early teens with the Bucs ), who nobody will accuse of being the greatest.

But what struck me with Manning was just how incredible he was with the Colts the year before he got hurt, when the entire offense was plagued with injuries. He didn't have his best guys, and the Colts were still a force to be reckoned with.

However, the problem is, the greatest QB debate is purely subjective. Greatest anything in sports is. Hell, last week I had a nice debate with my dad over great running backs, and he said Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, with something about being the only guys to average more than 5 yards per carry (I promptly pulled the stats to show prove him wrong. When he argued that guys play in more games, I showed him the games played ). But that's because he watched Jim Brown play and bled silver and blue for Barry Sanders.

Though, Jim Brown was the greatest running back .

So...yeah. If I had to give a list of the greatest QB's, Manning would be fighting for the top spot with Unitas and Montana. As for Marino...I have a strong bias against him from my childhood, so in this list, Marino's all "Can I play guys?" and everyone else is shouting "NO!"

[Your Mom]

Walter Payton was the best!

[DMN in the House]

Bo Jackson!

Oh, and Mick, you're WAY under-playing Ken Stabler if you're going to put him on par with Trent Dilfer. While he also has a negative TD-INT ratio, that was far more common in Stabler's era (Joe Namath also has one). Stabler has a QB rating 5 points higher than Dilfer, 75.3-70.2, and a completion percentage that's practically 60% (59.8) compared to 55.5 for Dilfer. He was also a four time Pro Bowler (once for Dilfer), two-time All-Pro, made the All-NFL First Team and Second Team once each, and was the NFL MVP in 1974. He wasn't the best QB of his era, that was either Fran Tarkenton or Roger Staubach, but he's a hell of a lot fucking better than Trent Dilfer. All of Stabler's stats are hurt by the five years he played in Houston and New Orleans post-Oakland, where he was a shell of his former self.

Yeah, don't talk shit about the best quarterback in Raider's history...

[Mick]

All I'm saying is that a Super Bowl helps the resume, but then you get guys who won it who shouldn't even be considered for the Hall. See: Williams, Doug.

Hell, statistically speaking, Vinny Testaverde should go in the Hall, but that's never going to happen.

[Lint]

Saw this on Deadspin, but I can't make out what network its from

[munky]

Looks like NBC.

Blunt, but honest headline though.

[Thrilla]

When Peyton retires, will he go into coaching?

[HC]

When Peyton retires, will he go into coaching?

I believe he's been vague about that in the past, saying something like he's only good on the field or something. I'd love to see him on the Vols staff when he retires though.

[Nick Adams]

Being from Denver, I have to agree with DMN on his assessment of Elway being the greatest Denver QB. However, the criteria are a little bit different for me. If people want to say that Manning's loss to Seattle was the worst loss in Super Bowl history, though...yeah, that's unfortunately something that happened under the guise of Elway's run as QB. 55-10 against the 49ers. Not pretty at all. And three out of the five Super Bowls to which Elway led the Broncos ended in similar blowouts. Admittedly, Elway did also lead the Broncos to their only Super Bowl victories to date (though Tebow may have done it had Manning not been brought in instead). However, it is more likely that Peyton will be remembered as the QB of the Colts who finished out in Denver, sort of like how Favre will be remembered as the Green Bay QB who finished out his last three years playing elsewhere.

What it comes down to for me was that, watching Elway play, it's a little more crisp and put together. As much as I don't appreciate Richard Sherman's pride, he did get one thing right - Manning throws some wobbly balls. Moreover, if he falls apart, he doesn't really have a back-up plan. Meanwhile, Elway was able to marshal a running game together any time that he couldn't get off the passing game. Sure, Elway may have been destroyed for more Super Bowls in which he played than not (and the Broncos, as a franchise, are the only team to make as many Super Bowl appearances as they have while garnering only two victories), but he knew how to handle his team. It seems like Manning just takes four receivers and hopes he doesn't have to resort to the ground game.

[PatDaMan]

When Peyton retires, will he go into coaching?

I doubt it. I'd much easier see him in the booth or front office like Elway. I think I vaguely remember hearing him say something similar to what HeadCheese mentioned, where he's only good on the field. Truth be told, I think it would bother him too much to have a QB that wouldn't be able to live up to his insane standard.

[The Buscher]

Plus if he made for a bad HC/OC it just would be uncomfortable for everybody, especially if he coached for the Colts or Broncos. His legacy will still be as one of the best QBs ever but having to add "oh yeah, and he coached and led the Colts to a 3-13 season three years in a row and got fired" would suck.

[Meacon Keaton]

Elway took three very average teams to those Super Bowls. Denver didn't get blown out because of Elway. The only reason they got there in the first place was because of him.

When talking about "Best ever" I always compare a player to what other players were doing in their era. It's why I think Babe Ruth is the greatest baseball player ever. He was outperforming entire teams during his peak years, and people weren't even coming close to his numbers until forty years later when athletes started getting "bigger, stronger, faster".

That's also why I think Johnny Unitas is the best quarterback ever. What he did, during his era, was incredible and unmatched by any other quarterback of the time.

Elway and Marino both likely would have thrown for 500 touchdowns if they were playing in today's game. I'm not, and never, will take away what Peyton has done, because at the end of the day, you still have to throw 500 touchdowns, and have a long enough career to do it. But today's game is so much different to what it was even just twenty years ago. Quarterbacks are very rarely punished for going downfield. The majority of the time the receiver is going to catch it (because they don't have to fear having their head knocked off anymore) or there will be a pass interference call.

Peyton would have been a great quarterback in any era. He's incredibly talented, and even more intelligent. But when you see guys like Matthew Stafford throwing for 5000 yards in three or four straight seasons, you can't say that it's not a heavily quarterback-favored league.

And no one will ever come close to reaching John Elway-status in Denver. It's like Cal Ripken in Baltimore. There may be a "better" player that comes into the organization at some point, but no one will ever surpass what Elway did, or what he means to that franchise.

[Pizza]

Admittedly, Elway did also lead the Broncos to their only Super Bowl victories to date (though Tebow may have done it had Manning not been brought in instead)

Amazing.

[HC]

Tebow and Jesus would have surely lead them to victory.