NHL 15

[apsham]

Demo is out in case anyone didn't notice.

I love the work that they did on the presentation this year - the crowds look phenonemnal, I like the NBC branding even if that's not the way I usually watch hockey and the live action intros. I didn't get to play a lot of NHL 14 but I like the gameplay as well.. got in about five games this morning and they felt rather spectacular, had some good close and realistic scoring games.

Just a shame this comes out on the same day as Destiny but.. I might still end up getting both.

[FLiam]

I didn't play '14 either.

This game is incredible to look at and play though. Echo the comments about the crowds, they all look unique and make gestures.

The hits are really really good, and I've noticed a vast improvement in the keepers reactions and also deflections are a lot more realistic. I'll definitely be buying.

[Plubby]

I will be buying this just by sheer virtue of now I don't have to play it on mute. Yay Doc Emrick! Boo the other two jokers.

[RoyWill Rumble]

I was all about this until they removed an assload of modes.

Also, it isn't a dealbreaker, but they were touting how every player had several layers—jersey, equipment, and player. I didn't see it. The fluttering jerseys look fucking weird.

[Gabriel]

Current gen gamers lose out on EASHL and Be-a-GM Connected, as well as Live the Life.

Be a Pro is still in the game, and EA already said that Live the Life wasn't what they wanted it to be anyways, so they would have just been adding a broken and unwanted mode to a new game. GM Connected doesn't work like it should on the last-gen systems, so they didn't see a point in rushing it for current-gen. EASHL is an entirely different beast, and they just didn't have time for it.

People keep saying that they've removed things, but that's incorrect. NHL 15 on current gen systems had to be rebuilt because of the differences between generations. This is a brand new game built on what they had last-gen. The stuff that was broken didn't make sense to add to the game if they didn't have time to fix it. Online users can still play Ultimate Team online and versus games. Offline users have Be-a-GM and Be-a-Pro still.

Sure, it's bare bones, but the only REAL exclusion is EASHL, and that's something that wouldn't have worked properly if they added it this year anyways. NHL 16 will have the base to work off of, and you'll definitely have EASHL back, as well as the return of a few modes that needed to be fixed anyways.

[RoyWill Rumble]

Hm. Do you work for EA?

That's excuses out the asshole. The only thing they had to do with GM Connected was fix the load times and they had an awesome game mode in their hands. If they couldn't do that, that's pathetic.

And I'm not about making excuses for dudes. They couldn't get Live the Life to where they wanted it? They should have tried harder.

Games like MLB The Show had feature parity with the PS3 version, so saying games are "brand new" from the ground-up, to me, just doesn't cut it anymore. I'm paying $70 for a game, I want it to be more than a bare bones game. It shouldn't be bare bones for $70.

Even FIFA last year, which by no means took advantage of the hardware with features, still had just has many features as the last-gen games, and felt dramatically different in its gameplay. Granted, it's the demo, but NHL 15 feels like a very pretty version of NHL 14 with some sliders tweaked, an admittedly solid presentation package (with some really fucking weird frame-skipping and jerky transitions from players), and a lot less modes.

I'll probably end up buying this at Christmas or something, but this isn't what it could have or should have been.

[Gabriel]

You can't even compare The Show and NHL. I love NHL, I buy it every year... but it's a broken game. It's always broken. Not to mention that the Dev Team size is drastically different, as well.

The Show on PS3 this year was essentially an updated version of last year's game. The PS4 is where the differences really shine. It will be the exact same with NHL this year... the difference between the two franchises being, that The Show isn't littered with broken game modes. Everything is playable the way it was designed. NHL keeps adding modes to the series, but they keep ignoring glaring issues with the existing game modes in favor of doing that. Where the PS4 version is going to shine, is in the fact that they minimized what their already small team was working on.

I would rather have one fully functional game mode than three or four that are near-unplayable. The Show's transition to PS4 was smooth because there weren't any massive fuck-ups in the game modes that needed any quantity of time devoted to them.

To me, on the PS4 the NHL demo felt a lot smoother than 14 did on the PS3. The camera angles are more organic and the so was the action on the ice. I can clearly see steps forward in the developmental process of the game.

So again... The Show: no holes in need of filling, pretty much just a straight adaptation of the PS3 game while taking advantage of the power of the new hardware... NHL: broken and in need of repair. Now is the time to do it. Not everyone has a current-gen console, so a lot of people will still be able to play these modes on the last-gen hardware and they're going to be fine. If you only have a PS4 or Xbox One, then yes, you are light on game modes, but the ones that are there should be better than before, and will get the attention that they deserve going forward to make sure that the game is as good as it possibly can be.

EDIT: You're essentially asking the NHL team to do the work of a team five-to-ten times the size of theirs, if you wanted everything to be brought over to the current-gen version of the game and made to work properly. "They should have tried harder" is a bullshit response, when in reality they simply scrapped the mode because they didn't like it, and they're going to work on bringing in a similar, better mode in the future.

[RoyWill Rumble]

Which is great for next year, but is a shitty excuse for this year when they're demanding $70. And team size doesn't mean shit to me. Many of my favourite games of the past few years were made by studios of like... five people. Were they trying to simulate a sport? No. But that argument is kinda flawed to me, because the NHL team has been big enough to try to recreate the NHL for YEARS now, and they know their engine inside and out. They know what they're capable of. It's not about man power so much as it is talent and drive, and to be completely honest, I think the NHL team is pretty fucking lazy.

And none of the modes that were axed this year were broken, aside from, arguably, GM Connected.

Live the Life was just stale. If they wanna change that? Go for it. But when they're axing that, along with GM Connected, EASHL, AND Online Team Play (to be expected in a patch, to be fair), that looks bad. I can tolerate Live the Life being axed, but when it's being axed along with several other key game modes, things look bad.

GM Connected wasn't really broken at all. It just needed to be more stable. And if they can't code that in a year then I dunno what to say about that.

EASHL was by no means broken in the least bit. It had its exploits, but that can be connected back to the core gameplay of the game. The systems in place to make you be able to connect to dudes and play an online team game worked well. They don't have much of an excuse to me to omit this mode, to be honest.

And I'm not doubting that they did quite well with the presentation of this game. It looks fantastic and the commentary and presentation package got a much-needed overhaul, even if player movements still look kinda jerky and robotic (I'm hoping that's just a demo thing). But I just feel like they focused way too much on presentation and tweaked the gameplay just a bit and kinda just gave up on features. I'd be more forgiving if this felt noticeably different from NHL 14, but it just feels like a slower version of the game that looks really, really, really good.

If this game is gonna be light on game modes, it's gotta fucking blow me away when it comes to gameplay. It is by no means BAD, but it just doesn't feel like its utilizing the PS4/XBone for anything but graphics, and for a few animation/physics things here and there. The presentation is being brought to old consoles, too. It won't look as good, but it'll have the same overlays and such. Is it a step up from the last gen versions, as far as gameplay? I god-damned hope so. But for me, right now, I haven't seen enough, nor have I been wowed enough by the demo to feel like it's the massive step forward from the last gen in terms of gameplay, and it certainly isn't when it comes to the feature set.

And again, it's great that this game COULD BE good next year. I still don't think it'll realize its potential because I think the NHL team rests on its laurels way too much. But I'm looking at this game now and thinking "Eh, this should be so much better for $70." Especially when I compare it to many other sports games on PS4 and XBone. The NHL team may be smaller than say, the FIFA or Madden team, but that doesn't mean shit to me as a consumer. I'm not gonna give them a break. If they intend to make an accurate recreation of hockey, I expect it, especially when a last generation version of the game has a lot more features and seems like it will play very similarly. This game ought to be the best it can be and it isn't even close. Something like FIFA, even if it has a bigger team, looks like a next-gen ass game and it looks like it's utilizing the systems well. Yeah, they've had another year, but FIFA 14 on the XBone and PS4 felt like a big step up from last gen too. And again, as a consumer, I'm not going to give the NHL team the benefit of the doubt. They're coming off as lazy dudes who promised way too much and now aren't being all that humble about their missteps.

This is all coming from a dude who mostly plays Franchise Mode, too. Like I said, I'll probably end up getting this game, but I don't think the NHL team should be given a pass just because it's their debut year on PS4 and XBone. The gameplay is solid, but not fantastic to me, and it doesn't make up for the axing of a lot of modes that will be in the last gen versions of the game. They were lazy as shit in several key aspects of the game and this game should get rightly criticized.

[Gabriel]

Most studios the size of the EA NHL team work on games for years on end before it gets released. The NHL team puts one out every season.

If, as a consumer, you don't feel like it's worth your $70, that's totally cool... especially since there are so many games coming out between now and NHL 16 that deserve your attention too. I personally traded in 14 because I felt like it was largely a regression from the steps forward they took in 13. I traded it towards MLB 13: The Show and played the shit out of that until 14 came out.

So having only played 14 briefly (in comparison to previous years where I had a franchise going until the next game came out), I can clearly see improvements to what I thought was a game that wasn't good enough. I personally hate online play, so the missing modes don't bother me any because I just update my rosters and equipment, and then go ahead with a franchise anyways.

As someone who works within the industry at the retail level, it's incredibly frustrating to have people going off about how awful the game is. I'm all too aware of the process that goes along with pumping out one of these games every year, and every year I hear the same complaints about things. This year, they're addressing some of that in exchange for not bringing a couple of modes over to the PS4/XB1 right away... and now that's all that I'm hearing about. I can't even count how many times I've had to explain what's happening to customers who were going to skip the game over, but whom the omissions won't actually affect. All they hear is how the game is bullshit and it's not going to be as good for features as the last-gen versions of the game.

So yes, I understand how as a consumer, if it's not worth your money, it's just not worth your money. I'm constantly having to decide what's worth me picking up, and lots of interesting things just don't make the cut. It's just important to me that people understand the difference between "This isn't for me" and "This game is fucking terrible".

[apsham]

Gabriel is right on most every level with this - don't be ridiculous calling the last gen edition "bare bones". This is the same exact kind of stuff that was happening when everything moved from PS2 to PS3 etc, and there was never a stink about it then. Frankly, we're lucky that last generation is even being supported this well.

[Toe]

My only complaint after playing the demo is that I still recognize some animations that have been in the game since NHL 07.

[RoyWill Rumble]

Gabriel is right on most every level with this - don't be ridiculous calling the last gen edition "bare bones". This is the same exact kind of stuff that was happening when everything moved from PS2 to PS3 etc, and there was never a stink about it then. Frankly, we're lucky that last generation is even being supported this well.

There was quite a lot of stink about it last time around too, in fact. Developers ought to be held accountable for releasing games that don't meet the expectations of their fanbase. A large part of the fanbase expected things like EASHL to be in. It isn't. The fanbase has every right to be pissed about that. It isn't a downright awful game by any means, but it's a game that's severely lacking key features (for me), and when I look at other games that have feature parity with last generation games or go far above and beyond last generation games, I'm not too excited to shell out $70 for what I believe is a let-down. I played quite a lot of EASHL and I was excited to play it on PS4. And that sentiment is shared by a lot of people. The development team deserves the criticism it gets. If it had been a bit more transparent about the development process earlier on, instead of revealing all this mere WEEKS before the game came out, I'd give them a bit of sympathy.

And the EA team is by no means ginormous, but it's been doing this for years, so to me there's no excuse. This isn't a few guys fresh out of college in their basement making a game. These guys have been making NHL games for years upon years, and this year on PS4 and XBone is severely disappointing from a features perspective, just like NHL 07 was severely disappointing when it debuted.

I am fully aware that this is a "building year", but hey, guess what? FIFA didn't fuck it up in their first year. MLB didn't fuck it up in their first year. Those games were fully-featured. And I just can't accept the argument of "BUT THE TEAMS ARE BIGGER". Talent is talent. These dudes made successful, fully-featured games before. On brand new hardware, no less.

And why is it frustrating to you as someone who works at a games store that the NHL game does bad? It's not like NHL needs to sell well for you to keep your job.

[SeanDMan]

I dunno how "most dev teams the size of the NHL team have years to work on a game, the EA team puts out a game every year" IS IN WHATEVER WAY CONSIDERED TO BE OPTIMAL.

[Gabriel]

Gabriel is right on most every level with this - don't be ridiculous calling the last gen edition "bare bones". This is the same exact kind of stuff that was happening when everything moved from PS2 to PS3 etc, and there was never a stink about it then. Frankly, we're lucky that last generation is even being supported this well.

There was quite a lot of stink about it last time around too, in fact. Developers ought to be held accountable for releasing games that don't meet the expectations of their fanbase. A large part of the fanbase expected things like EASHL to be in. It isn't. The fanbase has every right to be pissed about that. It isn't a downright awful game by any means, but it's a game that's severely lacking key features (for me), and when I look at other games that have feature parity with last generation games or go far above and beyond last generation games, I'm not too excited to shell out $70 for what I believe is a let-down. I played quite a lot of EASHL and I was excited to play it on PS4. And that sentiment is shared by a lot of people. The development team deserves the criticism it gets. If it had been a bit more transparent about the development process earlier on, instead of revealing all this mere WEEKS before the game came out, I'd give them a bit of sympathy.

And the EA team is by no means ginormous, but it's been doing this for years, so to me there's no excuse. This isn't a few guys fresh out of college in their basement making a game. These guys have been making NHL games for years upon years, and this year on PS4 and XBone is severely disappointing from a features perspective, just like NHL 07 was severely disappointing when it debuted.

I am fully aware that this is a "building year", but hey, guess what? FIFA didn't fuck it up in their first year. MLB didn't fuck it up in their first year. Those games were fully-featured. And I just can't accept the argument of "BUT THE TEAMS ARE BIGGER". Talent is talent. These dudes made successful, fully-featured games before. On brand new hardware, no less.

And why is it frustrating to you as someone who works at a games store that the NHL game does bad? It's not like NHL needs to sell well for you to keep your job.

I wasn't happy with the lack of information about what was going on, and I still think there's way too much we don't know less than two weeks away from launch. The excuse that Rammer had for the community was that they have been trying to get these things into the game and didn't want to announce that they weren't there until they knew that they couldn't fit them in.

The EA team has been making NHL for years, but it's not a matter of simply porting over the game. It's similar to the difference between operating systems on the computer, and why Adam Ryland hasn't made TEW available for Windows 8. It's not a simple process. There are so many little differences that can break the game, so you do in fact have to go through and practically re-code everything. What the EA team has done for years is tinker with a game that was already stable. What they did this year, was try to make a new game stable. There's a massive difference in what a developmental process entails for a first year game.

So when you say that you don't think that Dev Team size is an excuse, what you're really saying is "I'm not getting what I want, and because of that, not only am I choosing not to buy the game, but I don't accept any excuses because I don't care about logistical issues. They should have just worked harder."

The only way we would have gotten a fully featured NHL on current-gen is if they had a two year developmental cycle, or if EA actually spent some money and brought in extra developers to finish the game on time.

I'm totally cool with you being disappointed, because yes, it is disappointing. But you're being ridiculous.

[apsham]

Yeah - opinions are opinions, disappointment is disappointment but as a developer you have to understand that it is no where near as clear cut as you think and continue to imply. At the same time, saying FIFA was fine and MLB was fine doesn't really cut it either because they are entirely different studios working on an entirely different game, adding in entirely different features at an entirely different time. I mean sure, use it as a lynch pin here but it really doesn't hold up if you look at the bigger picture.

[SeanDMan]

no one is saying the team should have worked harder, what people are saying is that ea is one of the biggest and most profitable games production companies in the western world, they should stop pinching pennies and actually hire a bigger team if the current one is undersized to the task at hand.

[apsham]

They should have tried harder.

[Gabriel]

no one is saying the team should have worked harder, what people are saying is that ea is one of the biggest and most profitable games production companies in the western world, they should stop pinching pennies and actually hire a bigger team if the current one is undersized to the task at hand.

He was saying exactly that they should have worked harder. I'm hearing that from a lot of people, and it's just ignorant.

What you're saying, Sean, makes sense. There's absolutely no reason why EA shouldn't have hired more people and put out a more complete game. EA, the publisher, completely botched the NHL 15 move to current-gen. The EA NHL team, on the other hand, did what they could with what they had.

[Twist]

The developers have made a game that theyve have put a value on. If you don't agree with that value then don't buy the game. They owe you nothing. Even if you have bought the game year on year, they still owe the consumer nothing because each time they have provided you with a product for the money you have given them having been told a price and agreeing with it.

Hell, they could release a game with just exhibition mode and not a damn person would have a right to complain because as a customer you are only entitled to expect that which you have agrees to pay for. At this point no one has actually paid for the game, so how the fuck can anyone have a right to complain that they are not getting their monies worth for a game they haven't spent any bloody money on?

[SeanDMan]

I am an asshole, I complain liberally.