TEW2013: Real World Update: September 2014

[Skummy]

How is it trolling? How about you answer the question, instead of just saying "NO HE'S NOT"? What's so bad about Roman Reigns that you'd put him amongst your arbitrary list of "bad performers"?

[Fxhd]

How is it trolling? How about you answer the question, instead of just saying "NO HE'S NOT"?

He can't wrestle.

He can't talk.

His cardio is atrocious.

He doesn't have any character and is just promoted as The Shield, even though he was the weakest guy in the Shield and he was completely expandable.

He is overpushed.

[Skummy]

The top two are clearly untrue, and not in any way helpful to the discussion. "His cardio is atrocious" is, aside from being something I've never seen evidence of, totally irrelevant to the stats that we're supposed to be debating.

Him "not having any character" and being "overpushed" have nothing to do with his talents, or the stats in question, and everything to do with how he's booked.

[Fxhd]

The top two are clearly untrue, and not in any way helpful to the discussion. "His cardio is atrocious" is, aside from being something I've never seen evidence of, totally irrelevant to the stats that we're supposed to be debating.

Him "not having any character" and being "overpushed" have nothing to do with his talents, or the stats in question, and everything to do with how he's booked.

Yep, they are true. He didn't have any good singles match and the only ones half decent were completely carried by his opponent. *punch**punch**punch**punch**punch**punch**punch**punch**punch*SOOPAMAN PUNCH*punch**punch**punch**punch**punch**punch**punch**punch*SPEAR*WOMAN WAINS WINS*. As for mic work, BeLLIeeEEEE THaaaaaTTTT.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Fxhd

[Skummy]

Oh, so it's a "Five Moves Of Doom" criticism, then.

[Fxhd]

Oh, so it's a "Five Moves Of Doom" criticism, then.

Yep, and it's completely deserved. His matches are unwatchable level of bad and boring.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Fxhd

[No1Thuganomic]

Roman Reigns, just like John Cena, Hulk Hogan and many others in WWE, are booked that way. Vince has an image in his head of what a WWE match should look like and the Agents (together with the wrestlers) book it that way. But that doesn't mean that the wrestlers can't perform more than 5 moves.

Hogan had some good matches in Japan and wrestled a totally different style. Cena, with his Rapper Gimmick, wrestled with a different style.

And in NXT Roman Reigns wrestled with a different moveset than today.

On the WWE Main Roster Reigns is booked as an agile Powerhouse. For Vince (and most of the WWE Universe) he has that special something that you need, to be a Main Eventer in WWE.

As for his matches being unwatchable: That is not an argument that is your own personal opinion.

I think that Cruiserweight/High Flying/Spot Monkey Matches are unwatchable and stupid and boring. That is my opinion but that doesn't mean that the wrestlers are bad or can't work.

Perfect expample: PAC (Adrian Neville) worked a lot of these matches that I personally don't like, but in NXT he wrestles a totally different style and now I enjoy his matches because he changed his style/the WWE changed his style.

[Gazz]

Oh, so it's a "Five Moves Of Doom" criticism, then.

Yep, and it's completely deserved. His matches are unwatchable level of bad and boring.

You're literally the only person I have ever encountered with this opinion.

Like I said, you're clearly biased against him for whatever reason and are unable to look at his skills from a neutral, subjective standpoint, so you're input should be discarded. You also clearly do not understand wrestling on a fundamental level.

It would like me being the Newcastle researcher for Football Manager and giving every player 20 for every attribute so that they're the best team in the world because I'm biased towards them but that level is blatantly not correct.

[Fxhd]

Oh, so it's a "Five Moves Of Doom" criticism, then.

Yep, and it's completely deserved. His matches are unwatchable level of bad and boring.

You're literally the only person I have ever encountered with this opinion.

Like I said, you're clearly biased against him for whatever reason and are unable to look at his skills from a neutral, subjective standpoint, so you're input should be discarded. You also clearly do not understand wrestling on a fundamental level.

It would like me being the Newcastle researcher for Football Manager and giving every player 20 for every attribute so that they're the best team in the world because I'm biased towards them but that level is blatantly not correct.

Except it is correct. Roman Reigns is a terrible ring worker and a bad mic worker. Damn simple, and you can't prove otherwise.

[Gazz]

You can't prove he is a bad one.

Given that he is positioned as a main event level talent, working with other main event level talent in the biggest professional wrestling company that ever has existed and is in the mix to headline the next Wrestlemania, the largest wrestling event that has ever existed, I'd say that he must be at the very minimum, a highly competent ring worker and a person with a natural charisma that enable him to connect with thousands of live attendees and millions of television viewers on a weekly basis, the vast, vast, vast majority of whom hold him in very high regard and enjoy his performances.

So, yes, I can prove he is a good worker.

[Fxhd]

You can't prove he is a bad one.

Given that he is positioned as a main event level talent, working with other main event level talent in the biggest professional wrestling company that ever has existed and is in the mix to headline the next Wrestlemania, the largest wrestling event that has ever existed, I'd say that he must be at the very minimum, a highly competent ring worker and a person with a natural charisma that enable him to connect with thousands of live attendees and millions of television viewers on a weekly basis, the vast, vast, vast majority of whom hold him in very high regard and enjoy his performances.

So, yes, I can prove he is a good worker.

His push and position do not reflect his skill set. The only reason he is even pushed is because Vince gets boners for every guy with more muscle than the average wrestler, every single one of them. His skill set is extremely minimal and weak.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Fxhd

[Gazz]

How's the weather back in 2003?

If that was the case, Chris Masters would be a World Champion and if it was just about muscles, Reigns wouldn't be wrestling in gear that covers up most of his body.

[Skummy]

Please, tell me more about this "minimal skill set", and roughly how many skills Roman Reigns should have to be considered a competent wrestler, rather than falling back on bizarre, outdated and unfounded criticism of WWE and Vince McMahon.

"He doesn't have any moves!" isn't sufficient. Moves are the least important part of a wrestling match.

[lanky316]

To be honest it looks like he's indirectly arguing Roman Reigns should have much higher star quality. He hasn't got any assets yet somehow connects with crowds because of "something" he has. There's only so far the WWE hype machine can push you and the crowds really buy into it.

[caucasianheat]

His push and position do not reflect his skill set. The only reason he is even pushed is because Vince gets boners for every guy with more muscle than the average wrestler, every single one of them. His skill set is extremely minimal and weak.

You're yet to make a compelling point on this topic, which sort of throws some shade on the dozens and dozens of other suggestions you try to bulldoze through these threads.

You need to keep in mind that this is data for everyone to use. It's not going to be tailored to your whims because you aren't the objective evaluator of all wrestling talent. You're just another dick with an opinion (and a dated one at that).

[Fxhd]

Yeah, and Roman Reigns's stats ACTUALLY matching his real life stats, which are all-round mediocre, is what's stopping geeks from pushing him to the moon like the WWE does, because WWE does it and quite frankly the product is unwatchable, completely marginalized and nerfed so the people won't see how much WOMAN WAINS sucks. Read a couple of other forums or every post on Facebook on WWE pages, every top comment is about how overrated he is and how much he sucks.

How's the weather back in 2003?

If that was the case, Chris Masters would be a World Champion and if it was just about muscles, Reigns wouldn't be wrestling in gear that covers up most of his body.

He wrestles in gear so the people wouldn't see he has a flabby stomach and so he wouldn't need a character. Rip-off.

Please, tell me more about this "minimal skill set", and roughly how many skills Roman Reigns should have to be considered a competent wrestler, rather than falling back on bizarre, outdated and unfounded criticism of WWE and Vince McMahon.

"He doesn't have any moves!" isn't sufficient. Moves are the least important part of a wrestling match.

He doesn't have any moves. All his matches consist of punches. He is dubbed as a powerhouse yet the only move he does that resembles any kind of power is a Samoan Drop. He gets gassed 5 minutes into the match. He looks lost all the time. His psychology is to the ground, gets DDT'd, gets up after 5 seconds.

To be honest it looks like he's indirectly arguing Roman Reigns should have much higher star quality. He hasn't got any assets yet somehow connects with crowds because of "something" he has. There's only so far the WWE hype machine can push you and the crowds really buy into it.

And the crowd is beggining to stop buying into it. His reactions are getting thinner by the day, a few boos started and Ambrose was constantly outperforming and outpopping him.

His push and position do not reflect his skill set. The only reason he is even pushed is because Vince gets boners for every guy with more muscle than the average wrestler, every single one of them. His skill set is extremely minimal and weak.

You're yet to make a compelling point on this topic, which sort of throws some shade on the dozens and dozens of other suggestions you try to bulldoze through these threads.

You need to keep in mind that this is data for everyone to use. It's not going to be tailored to your whims because you aren't the objective evaluator of all wrestling talent. You're just another dick with an opinion (and a dated one at that).

And this ain't a compelling point either.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Fxhd

[TheWho87]

I'd like to suggest maybe going for a compromise, I've seen these arguments before and it wont be long till a bunch of trolling donators come here and start spamming the topic with bullshit leading the argument to escalate till you get banned.

[caucasianheat]

You're yet to make a compelling point on this topic, which sort of throws some shade on the dozens and dozens of other suggestions you try to bulldoze through these threads.

You need to keep in mind that this is data for everyone to use. It's not going to be tailored to your whims because you aren't the objective evaluator of all wrestling talent. You're just another dick with an opinion (and a dated one at that).

And this ain't a compelling point either.

I'm not invested in your silly debate. I am telling you to relax before you're excused.

[cpt.charisma]

Hi everyone, can you please stop arguing over reigns stats and stop this debate, Fxhd does provide me with lots of good updates and he is allowed to express his opinion but at the end of the day I make the final call

So far I've updated pretty much everything suggested including the new workers you wanted adding and importing

[Gazz]

I'd like to suggest maybe going for a compromise, I've seen these arguments before and it wont be long till a bunch of trolling donators come here and start spamming the topic with bullshit leading the argument to escalate till you get banned.

Several donators are already here and trying to have a reasoned debate regarding the allocation of skill points and the moderation of them measured against other workers but all we're getting back is invalid arguments that died 10 years ago, caps lock and Facebook posts as admissible evidence.