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Serial/Making a Murderer


Maxx

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Great research right off the bat with their first item being one of the first things mentioned in the series. :shifty:

A lot of that is either misleading, commented on from the writer's perspective which makes some things seem more 'fact' than they are or already gone over with evidence proving contrary from the reddit, which I would assume should've been a required resource for an article like that.

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Nearly all the evidence not presented is circumstantial. And much like season 1 of Serial it's stuff that makes you go "oh, that would definitely sway me" but then you look at the evidence presented and realize nothing matches up and wonder how you could ever find the guy guilty. Juries often seem swayed by emotions and think "well who else could it have been?" which isn't how they're supposed to handle murder trials.

That said, who else could it have been other than Steven Avery? Even if the prosecution planted evidence and tried to railroad him there weren't any other credible leads as to where she went. What happened to Brendan Dassey is far more infuriating.

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I'm kind of the mind that Avery is guilty, but at the same time, I feel like someone who is guilty isn't going to go through this much trouble - writing so many appeals, etc. - is guilty. In my own (limited, admittedly with my family) experience, people that aren't guilty don't spend years proclaiming their innocence and writing 38 page appeals to try and get new trials.

Honestly, like the Pajiba article says (paraphrasing), this is less of a case of "innocent vs. guilty" than it is a highlight of how incredibly fucked up our judicial system is. Especially so in Brendan Dassey's case, where it's been proven that his lawyer lied, lied on the stand, and then the emails about how they're an "evil" family who should be "wiped out".

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I also kind of think he's guilty. I think his appealing it might have a lot to do with his first trial. If you go to jail for 18 years for a crime you didn't commit, maybe you think you can get off with a murder you did actually commit.

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It's hard to rule out other people though. Lot of people in his immediate family didn't really have solid alibis at that time, and it's stated at a point in the show that Steven said she was coming. Like Steven seems like the guy who should have done it because of where all the bones were, but it's far from impossible for the body to be burnt there when he wasn't by it. I don't even know what to make of the bones being in other places, like you'd assume generally they're moved to the place most of them are but then there's that additional evidence not in the documentary that seems to show the forensic evidence showed it was far more likely they were burnt there.

There's also the issues with the jury in Avery's trial and it being such a small town it makes sense that someone would have been related to a cop and someone to a county employee. How are those people ever going to buy a defense that evidence was planted?

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Since this has kind of become a general true crime show/podcast/movie thread I'd like to suggest to everyone a documentary call The Imposter.

In a nutshell its the story of a French con man named Frederic Bourdin, who's M.O. is impersonating lost/orphaned teenage boys, only this time he steals the identity of a boy who's been missing for three years and after meeting the Texian family of said boy things aren't exactly what they seem.

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And now Steven Avery's mother is coming out to say that she doesn't think that Teresa Haibach is actually dead.

15 hours ago, FeniXMS said:

I stopped as soon as i saw "nancy grace."

That'll get you far. Regardless of Nancy Grace's horribleness, the general consensus across the reddit community for this is that Jodi doesn't exactly seem like someone who is lying, and honestly I'm not all that against the idea that Steven Avery is as harmless as the documentary portrays him as.

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Nobody is saying he's an angel, he's clearly not. (He ran his cousin off the road with his car, he killed his cat, wrote his first wife a bunch of threatening letters from prison), but there's no telling who or what has gotten to his ex-fiancé. 

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It's hard to rule out other people though. Lot of people in his immediate family didn't really have solid alibis at that time, and it's stated at a point in the show that Steven said she was coming. Like Steven seems like the guy who should have done it because of where all the bones were, but it's far from impossible for the body to be burnt there when he wasn't by it. I don't even know what to make of the bones being in other places, like you'd assume generally they're moved to the place most of them are but then there's that additional evidence not in the documentary that seems to show the forensic evidence showed it was far more likely they were burnt there.

 

 

Her ex-boyfriend being so gung ho in the search party and admitting he hacked her voicemail made him seem very suspicious 

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And now Steven Avery's mother is coming out to say that she doesn't think that Teresa Haibach is actually dead.

His father was the true star of that show. He needs to be a legal commentator calling every judge and prosecutor a "goddamn sunuvabitch."

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I meant to comment on that earlier. What Jodi said is kind of tough but doesn't mean too much in the grand scheme of things. Whether or not Steven Avery did it the police didn't investigate thoroughly, they didn't look at other possible leads, they settled on one guy and tried to figure out how to show he was guilty. Sadly a boy who was very likely free of any guilt is going to be old by the time he has the chance to get out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Finally went through Making A Murderer and some of this stuff is just astounding. I really don't know if Steven Avery did it or not but from what was presented, I don't see how anyone could think he got his right to a fair trial. The fact that the same county that he lived in and was suing during that period of time was allowed on the premises, even after it was stated that they wouldn't be because of the conflict of interest is ridiculous. The fact that they allowed her family and ex-boyfriend past checkpoints and onto the Avery property to conduct a search, in what they thought to possibly be a crime scene, is fucking ludicrous. The fact that there was no investigation into her ex-boyfriend about the possibility of him or the family being the one(s) responsible for disappearances or foul play. I don't know about this whole police department conspiracy but there were way too many coincidences and different links to his first case that look really shady.

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  • 2 months later...

So the final podcast of the 2nd season of Serial was released a few days ago. And I have to say I really did enjoy this Season. Wasn't as captivating as Season 1. But for someone like me who was only vaguely aware of the Bowe Bergdahl situation (I knew that he was a US soldier captured by the Taliban that was freed because of a deal the US government made but that was about it) it was very fascinating despite the lack of a "did he or didn't he do it?" mystery like Season 1 had.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 month later...

Also, something that just came up in the past few days, but a Redditor claims that fingerprints seen on Theresa Halbach's RAZR phone match Stephen Avery's.

of course, you know, internet detectives and all that. I find it hard to believe dude just saw it with the naked eye and was able to determine that "yup, that's Stephen Avery's fingerprint".

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5 minutes ago, Cloudy said:

Also, something that just came up in the past few days, but a Redditor claims that fingerprints seen on Theresa Halbach's RAZR phone match Stephen Avery's.

of course, you know, internet detectives and all that. I find it hard to believe dude just saw it with the naked eye and was able to determine that "yup, that's Stephen Avery's fingerprint".

Impossible, some would even say

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