Superman 64 Discussion Thread

[Troy Maskell]

As saying we don't support indie developers and indie games or females in the industry. Why then are Gamergaters one of the biggest providers to the IndieGoGo of The Fine Young Capitalists?

Because TFYC had a dispute with Zoe Quinn, and to give yourselves the equivalent of the 'some of my best friends are black' routine.

I give up. I honestly fucking give up. If you truly believe that then you my friend are beyond redemption because you will never see anyway but your own.

[FestiveJack]

As saying we don't support indie developers and indie games or females in the industry. Why then are Gamergaters one of the biggest providers to the IndieGoGo of The Fine Young Capitalists?

Because TFYC had a dispute with Zoe Quinn, and to give yourselves the equivalent of the 'some of my best friends are black' routine.

I give up. I honestly fucking give up. If you truly believe that then you my friend are beyond redemption because you will never see anyway but your own.

/pol/ - the place where your lot were organising the fundraising campaign - called it 'Operation Chemotherapy', because "they would support the cancer" which would make them "PR-untouchable". Source: http://i.imgur.com/E7XZaKz.png

[Maxx]

Troy could you tell us how these favorable reviews given under suspicious circumstances have hurt you, and otherwise affected your life? I'm sure it's tough to talk about, but I think it'd really help us understand.

[Skummy]

As saying we don't support indie developers and indie games or females in the industry. Why then are Gamergaters one of the biggest providers to the IndieGoGo of The Fine Young Capitalists?

Because TFYC had a dispute with Zoe Quinn, and to give yourselves the equivalent of the 'some of my best friends are black' routine.

I give up. I honestly fucking give up. If you truly believe that then you my friend are beyond redemption because you will never see anyway but your own.

To be fair, it's a lot easier to do when your way is supported by facts and evidence.

[Troy Maskell]

As saying we don't support indie developers and indie games or females in the industry. Why then are Gamergaters one of the biggest providers to the IndieGoGo of The Fine Young Capitalists?

Because TFYC had a dispute with Zoe Quinn, and to give yourselves the equivalent of the 'some of my best friends are black' routine.

I give up. I honestly fucking give up. If you truly believe that then you my friend are beyond redemption because you will never see anyway but your own.

/pol/ - the place where your lot were organising the fundraising campaign - called it 'Operation Chemotherapy', because "they would support the cancer" which would make them "PR-untouchable". Source: http://i.imgur.com/E7XZaKz.png

I stand by my first reply to this quote.

[FestiveJack]

Then you're being wilfully fucking dumb.

[Skummy]

As saying we don't support indie developers and indie games or females in the industry. Why then are Gamergaters one of the biggest providers to the IndieGoGo of The Fine Young Capitalists?

Because TFYC had a dispute with Zoe Quinn, and to give yourselves the equivalent of the 'some of my best friends are black' routine.

I give up. I honestly fucking give up. If you truly believe that then you my friend are beyond redemption because you will never see anyway but your own.

/pol/ - the place where your lot were organising the fundraising campaign - called it 'Operation Chemotherapy', because "they would support the cancer" which would make them "PR-untouchable". Source: http://i.imgur.com/E7XZaKz.png

I stand by my first reply to this quote.

So, wilful ignorance in the face of evidence, then?

[Sousa]

Hey Troy, out of curiosity, how do you feel about Polygon's review of Bayonetta 2?

[Troy Maskell]

As saying we don't support indie developers and indie games or females in the industry. Why then are Gamergaters one of the biggest providers to the IndieGoGo of The Fine Young Capitalists?

Because TFYC had a dispute with Zoe Quinn, and to give yourselves the equivalent of the 'some of my best friends are black' routine.

I give up. I honestly fucking give up. If you truly believe that then you my friend are beyond redemption because you will never see anyway but your own.

/pol/ - the place where your lot were organising the fundraising campaign - called it 'Operation Chemotherapy', because "they would support the cancer" which would make them "PR-untouchable". Source: http://i.imgur.com/E7XZaKz.png

I stand by my first reply to this quote.

So, wilful ignorance in the face of evidence, then?

Not wilful ignorance, Just a pointless argument. I could easily say "Not all Gamergaters are members of 4/8chan" or "Not every Gamergater agrees with their views" but what's the fucking point? You guys have already made up your minds and nothing I say will change that. That's been made ABUNDATELY clear over the 13 pages of this thread.

So fine, whatthefuckever. Believe what ever the fuck you want. Here I'll make it easy for you to add to your little circlejerk

"I'm a Gamergater and as such I deserve to die"

Happy now?

[Lint]

Just out of curiosity, what did their review say?

[FestiveJack]

As saying we don't support indie developers and indie games or females in the industry. Why then are Gamergaters one of the biggest providers to the IndieGoGo of The Fine Young Capitalists?

Because TFYC had a dispute with Zoe Quinn, and to give yourselves the equivalent of the 'some of my best friends are black' routine.

I give up. I honestly fucking give up. If you truly believe that then you my friend are beyond redemption because you will never see anyway but your own.

/pol/ - the place where your lot were organising the fundraising campaign - called it 'Operation Chemotherapy', because "they would support the cancer" which would make them "PR-untouchable". Source: http://i.imgur.com/E7XZaKz.png

I stand by my first reply to this quote.

So, wilful ignorance in the face of evidence, then?

Not wilful ignorance, Just a pointless argument. I could easily say "Not all Gamergaters are members of 4/8chan" or "Not every Gamergater agrees with their views" but what's the fucking point? You guys have already made up your minds and nothing I say will change that. That's been made ABUNDATELY clear over the 13 pages of this thread.

So fine, whatthefuckever. Believe what ever the fuck you want. Here I'll make it easy for you to add to your little circlejerk

"I'm a Gamergater and as such I deserve to die"

Happy now?

The persecution complex is strong with this one.

[Skummy]

No, because resorting to stupid reductive reasoning hardly helps your argument, does it? Nor does playing the victim.

People aren't criticising you because you're "a Gamergater", it's not a personal attack and you're not a victim - we're criticising what you're saying because it's verifiably false. That's how debate works.

You refuted the point that donating to Fine Young Capitalists was a concerted, orchestrated effort, you were proven wrong, you didn't accept it and were, quite rightly, criticised for not changing your opinion based on fresh information - something, by the way, you're accusing everybody else of, but I suppose it's fine when you do it? Can that be spelled out any more simply for you?

[Plubby]

If you really want me to.

Should video games be art? Well yes, there are plenty of clichés and I welcome new ideas. Saying Depression Quest is a "game" though is an insult to those true indie developers you speak of that actually put effort into their art form.

...

Like I said earlier, I'm tired of arguing, you believe one thing. I believe another. But don't try and tell me we're trying to control the narrative, we lost control of this argument long ago.

Hang on, you cannot unilaterally say that you do not wish to control the narrative and then try and objectively say that something is not art when art is an inherently subjective thing thereby excluding it from the discussion.

You...you just can't!

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Just out of curiosity, what did their review say?

The game takes every opportunity to sexualise the main character, with arse cleavage, slow camera pans up her body and with her hair-clothes (yeah, I had to look up what that meant) flicking around everywhere during some moves.

I've never played it or read about it before but read the review when Skummy mentioned it.

He gave it a 7.5/10. Cue angry "she's not being sexualised!" claims from many people and then very very angry verbal assaults on the reviewer from what I read....and then someone found out that he was a paid member of Suicide Girls and they all loved that.

[Troy Maskell]

No, because resorting to stupid reductive reasoning hardly helps your argument, does it? Nor does playing the victim.

People aren't criticising you because you're "a Gamergater", it's not a personal attack and you're not a victim - we're criticising what you're saying because it's verifiably false. That's how debate works.

You argued the point that donating to Fine Young Capitalists was a concerted, orchestrated effort, you were proven wrong, you didn't accept it and were, quite rightly, criticised for not changing your opinion based on fresh information - something, by the way, you're accusing everybody else of, but I suppose it's fine when you do it? Can that be spelled out any more simply for you?

IT'S NOT FUCKING VERVIFIBLY FALSE! Your source is a link to a fucking 4chan discussion. How the fuck do you know how much of the donations came from 4chan members and how much came from Gamergaters who don't know the fucking slightest thing about the thread?

Edited February 23, 2015 by Troy Maskell

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

I read this article recently. It was very interesting when it came to online anonymity and something called "catfishing".

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/oct/18/am-i-being-catfished-an-author-confronts-her-number-one-online-critic

[Skummy]

No, because resorting to stupid reductive reasoning hardly helps your argument, does it? Nor does playing the victim.

People aren't criticising you because you're "a Gamergater", it's not a personal attack and you're not a victim - we're criticising what you're saying because it's verifiably false. That's how debate works.

You argued the point that donating to Fine Young Capitalists was a concerted, orchestrated effort, you were proven wrong, you didn't accept it and were, quite rightly, criticised for not changing your opinion based on fresh information - something, by the way, you're accusing everybody else of, but I suppose it's fine when you do it? Can that be spelled out any more simply for you?

IT'S NOT FUCKING VERVIFIBLY FALSE! Your source is a link to a fucking 4chan discussion. How the fuck do you know how much of the donations came from 4chan members and how much came from Gamergaters who don't know the fucking slightest thing about the thread?

Okay, by the same logic, how do you know how much of the donations came from Gamergate at all to make your big proud statements of supporting a feminist group?

The fact that the thread exists, in which it is suggested that GamerGate donate to their IndieGoGo, and then GamerGaters did exactly that kind of suggests a cause and effect, though, doesn't it? And the fact that the people responsible for said thread were then given the opportunity to design a video game character would suggest that their donations were substantial, wouldn't it?

The evidence is there to support our side of the argument. It isn't there to support yours. How are we the ones getting accused of blindly clinging to our side of the story here?

[Troy Maskell]

No, because resorting to stupid reductive reasoning hardly helps your argument, does it? Nor does playing the victim.

People aren't criticising you because you're "a Gamergater", it's not a personal attack and you're not a victim - we're criticising what you're saying because it's verifiably false. That's how debate works.

You argued the point that donating to Fine Young Capitalists was a concerted, orchestrated effort, you were proven wrong, you didn't accept it and were, quite rightly, criticised for not changing your opinion based on fresh information - something, by the way, you're accusing everybody else of, but I suppose it's fine when you do it? Can that be spelled out any more simply for you?

IT'S NOT FUCKING VERVIFIBLY FALSE! Your source is a link to a fucking 4chan discussion. How the fuck do you know how much of the donations came from 4chan members and how much came from Gamergaters who don't know the fucking slightest thing about the thread?

Okay, by the same logic, how do you know how much of the donations came from Gamergate at all to make your big proud statements of supporting a feminist group?

The fact that the thread exists, in which it is suggested that GamerGate donate to their IndieGoGo, and then GamerGaters did exactly that kind of suggests a cause and effect, though, doesn't it? And the fact that the people responsible for said thread were then given the opportunity to design a video game character would suggest that their donations were substantial, wouldn't it?

The evidence is there to support our side of the argument. It isn't there to support yours. How are we the ones getting accused of blindly clinging to our side of the story here?

Because you won't see any other way. Your narrative is "It started on 4chan, therefore it must be". You won't even entertain the POSSIBILITY of it being otherwise. What am I supposed to do? Hack into IndieGoGo, find EVERY person who donated to TFYC and then hack into 4 AND 8chan to see if they have an account or not?

[Skummy]

My "narrative" is supported by ample evidence. Your's is supported by "YOU GUYS ARE WRONG AND HATE ME". Do you at least understand why I might be more inclined to side with one side of that argument than the other?

Not to mention, you were confident enough to claim that GamerGate supported them at all - so surely you must have some evidence to back that up?

[Troy Maskell]

My "narrative" is supported by ample evidence. Your's is supported by "YOU GUYS ARE WRONG AND HATE ME". Do you at least understand why I might be more inclined to side with one side of that argument than the other?

But do you see also that it's possible a majority didn't come from 4chan? I'm not denying money DID come from 4Chan. I'm simply saying you can't prove that that's the only source or even the majority. I'm not saying you have to believe me, you can believe that it's a 4Chan stunt. I just want you to accept the notion that a discussion on a message board doesn't automatically mean "Guilty as charged"

Edited February 23, 2015 by Troy Maskell