Better Call Saul

[Hellraiser]

9 minutes ago, MDK said:

Its been ages since I've seen Breaking Bad but (spoilers for Better Call Saul, just in case):

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Is it mentioned in BB what happens to Chuck? I cannot remember. 

 

Spoiler

I haven't seen BB in a while too but I don't recall them mentioning anything about his past other than Saul himself explaining that Saul Goodman isn't his actual name and he chose it to attract Jewish clients.

 

[MDK]

2 minutes ago, Hellraiser said:

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I haven't seen BB in a while too but I don't recall them mentioning anything about his past other than Saul himself explaining that Saul Goodman isn't his actual name and he chose it to attract Jewish clients.

 

Spoiler

I cant even remember him mentioning his brother in BB. Probably wrong about that, but I cannot remember. 

 

[Adam]

Spoiler

I've been rewatching BB lately and am now into Season 5 with no mention whatsoever of Chuck or anyone from BCS that isn't in BB already. The closest we've got is when Saul is driven out to the desert and threatened by Walt & Jesse in ski masks back in Season 2, when Saul thinks they're the cartel and shouts "It wasn't me, it was Ignacio! He's the one!" which many have speculated refers to Nacho Varga. My guess on that would be him fingering Nacho for sabotaging Don Hector's pills.

@MDK - spoiler above concerns your question as well as speculation over another BCS character from Mike's arc.

[Arjen Robben]

14 hours ago, Joshy Roger said:

Was the Mike thing about finding the dead husband of the woman he met while helping the church?

 

I assumed his reaction to her talking about him and the never finding him to have that closure just caused him to go and find the guy who ended up getting killed cause of him because it was weighing on him that this guys family didn't have that closure either. Also last episode he said he "needed one more thing" from Nacho and takes out a notepad and pen, start of this episode as he's getting out of the car he looks at the notepad again.

Also, I read elsewhere, that Chuck describing to the doctor what he wants, i.e. music and being surrounded by friends and family also sounded like a description for a funeral.

[EndOfAnEra]

Well Jimmy finally went too far for me in this one.

Spoiler

It's funny that it took him making an old lady feel abandoned and sad to make me feel like he crossed the line.

 

[MalaCloudy Black]

I thought for sure that
 

Spoiler

Jimmy actually cared a little about his elderly clients, and at first I thought maybe he was actually trying to do it to benefit them. But nope. Howard called it, 100%. And then Jimmy goes and isolates an old woman from all of her friends, manipulates them, and all to benefit himself. And he couldn't care less about what Kim's working on or how busy she is, all he cares is that he's getting his 20% from the Sandpiper settlement.

That scene with Nacho and his father was heartbreaking. At this point, Mike and Nacho are really the only two people who seem even slightly redeemable. Which is funny, considering we know what they both are: an enforcer (albeit with morals) and a drug dealer. And yet, they're more sympathetic than Jimmy or Chuck at this point.

 

[GoGo Yubari]

Spoiler

Fucking Jimmy. There's a bit of gray area in terms of whether settling was really what's best for his ex-clients, but absolutely none in what his immediate reactions after meeting with Irene for the first time and after getting the settlement are.

Howard being besieged on both sides by the McGill brothers is hilarious. He's not exactly someone you really feel bad for, but man, he's not had the best time of it this season.

 

[Arjen Robben]

 

Irene 

Bloody Jimmy.

Also skating on some mighty thin ice there considering his end goal would surely result in Irene being back with her friends and them at some point mentioning all the shit Jimmy said to them.

[Hellraiser]

Spoiler

So do we think that Kims accident was caused by her being lost in thought going over what she was going to say to her new client or do we think she has some kind of illnes that causes temporary blackouts?

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by Hellraiser

[MalaCloudy Black]

Re: Kim

Spoiler

Jimmy mentioned that she pulled another all-nighter. All-nighter with no sleep + driving = usually a bad idea. She more than likely fell asleep at the wheel, and all it takes is just a few seconds in a situation like that for things to go wrong.

 

[Josh]

Well that was a real gut-punch of an episode.

[Bobfoc]

Spoiler

I didn't think I'd ever say it, but I'm sort of rooting for Chuck here a little bit. What he's doing isn't nice, but there's an interesting vengeance storyline going on after the man he tutored turned on him. After the way he treated Kim, I don't feel sorry for Howard.

Of course, there's a good chance that Chuck won't make it past the next episode, but the dream lives for now.

 

[Adam]

On 2017-6-13 at 07:58, Broken Cloyd said:

I thought for sure that
 

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Jimmy actually cared a little about his elderly clients, and at first I thought maybe he was actually trying to do it to benefit them. But nope. Howard called it, 100%. And then Jimmy goes and isolates an old woman from all of her friends, manipulates them, and all to benefit himself. And he couldn't care less about what Kim's working on or how busy she is, all he cares is that he's getting his 20% from the Sandpiper settlement.

That scene with Nacho and his father was heartbreaking. At this point, Mike and Nacho are really the only two people who seem even slightly redeemable. Which is funny, considering we know what they both are: an enforcer (albeit with morals) and a drug dealer. And yet, they're more sympathetic than Jimmy or Chuck at this point.

 

Spoiler

 

Kim is the one true babyface in this show. Everything she does she does above board, she works harder than anyone else on the planet and is striving for a better career and life for herself and her clients, plus those she cares about around her (which right now is pretty much Jimmy).

I echo everyone's sentiments that this was the episode where Jimmy took it too far. What he did to Irene really sucked, it was cruel beyond belief and for such selfish reasons. Yes, he's desperate for cash and in his head wants the money so he can pay his way to Kim but still. I didn't see Jimmy this episode, I saw Saul Goodman. So much so that whenever the old folks referred to him as Jimmy I did a double take.

Howard snapping at Jimmy was a great scene, like he'd gone past his tolerance point and wasn't having any more of it. It's going to be hard seeing him feel guilty if (when?) Chuck dies because the circumstances that have led to this whole lawsuit is the doing of Jimmy.

I feel sorry for Nacho too, and I feel like his attempts to safeguard his Papa against danger are ultimately going to backfire, leading to a more immediate vengeance attack on Hector. Whether that also involves Mike and/or Gus remains to be seen, but I'd be surprised if it didn't. It feels like the slow, slow burn of this Gus - Hector conflict is coming to a head, and knowing what we know from BB, I'd be surprised if Gus didn't jump at the chance to gain a measure of revenge on Don Hector. It remained his one blindspot right up to his death, pure emotion clouding his otherwise impeccable stoic judgement.

I loved everything about the way this episode was shot too. Gilligan and co. (Yes, and co!) are my favourite screenwriters at the moment. There was some great foreshadowing of the expected season finale events surrounding Chuck, in his house after Howard leaves and the close-up of Hector flicking his lighter cap open and shut. The way the final scene lulled you into Kim's car crash was exquisite, almost as if we were dozing off with her. The jump-cut to the airbag and everything was so sudden it worked great to put us in her shoes. Hopefully this accident is a wake up call for her in some respect.

EDIT: I didn't even mention the foreshadowing of Kim's crash in the earlier incident at the oil field!

 

 

[Hellraiser]

Spoiler

What a gut punch of an ending. I suspected that Chuck would die. But I never would've guessed that he would commit suicide. I was sure that he would die in some kind of accident. Damn. 

 

[Arjen Robben]

Man, I sort of drifted in and out of thinking Chuck might commit suicide through this season, but eventually thought he seemed like it was turning around for him. This was such a sad episode for Chuck, watching him just frantically tearing his house apart was sad, and the end just.. yeah.

On the upside, nice to see Jimmy thrown himself under the bus to fix things with Irene, honestly, my heart broke in the last episode and this episode every time I saw looking lonely and sad.

[MalaCloudy Black]

Fuuuuuuuuuuck.
 

Spoiler

Excellent finale.

Loved the visual of Chuck looking down at everyone from HHM. Great stuff. It's a king looking down on his kingdom one last time. It's Howard, the heir apparent, deposing him.

My initial thought when Chuck said he didn't really ever care for Jimmy was "damn, that's cold". In hindsight, it's textbook suicidal ideation stuff. This was Chuck pushing Jimmy further away, in part to try and lessen the pain for him. It's an obvious lie as well, given what we saw of the two of them as children in the cold open. That whole extended scene with Chuck ripping out paneling and ripping his walls apart was incredibly unsettling to watch, because you're watching a man on the edge going over it. Excellently acted by Michael McKean.

Jimmy throwing himself under the bus to repair Mrs. Landry's relationship with her friends was, I think, maybe the last true, selfless act we get to see from Jimmy McGill. I said in this thread before that I think Chuck's death will be a major factor in the transformation of Jimmy into Saul, and I still believe that. Now the only person left that Jimmy really, truly cares about is Kim. I think losing Chuck will be what puts Jimmy on the edge, and losing Kim - which I assume will happen next season, though, hopefully not as fatal a loss - will be what pushes Jimmy over that edge. Loved that little touch with Jimmy throwing away the rolodex and saying that he's going to have to reinvent himself. He's already given up on Jimmy McGill, but Kim hasn't.

The entire time when Nacho was stalking Hector I was saying to myself "Nacho please Nacho FUCK Nacho come on AH FUCK". I thought for sure that Nacho had been caught when Arturo showed up, but nope, turns out they were supposed to be there anyway. And the pill switch worked! And Gus saves Hector's life (which isn't really that surprising)! And that side-eye from Gus when the ambulance is taking Hector away makes me think he's figured out that Nacho had something to do with it. It's hard not to figure that out, considering the pure euphoria on Nacho's face as the ambulance drives off.


All in all, excellent season. Excellent finale. Can't wait for season 4.

EDIT:

Oh, man. This theory from one commenter on AVClub re: Kim:

 

Spoiler

"Beyond the chilling final scene, the excruciating interactions with the elderly, and the constant spiral of downward momentum that all these characters constantly face, the line that sent chills down my spine the most was Kim’s, “Always go for the good stuff.”

New Mexico has one of the highest opioid overdose rates in the entire world. And where I went to high school teens popped Oxy like candy. Don’t forget the constant warnings that opioid addiction frequently begins with painkillers for injuries. With that one line and subtle suggestion all I can feel is fear for the future of Kim Wexler."

 

[Josh]

Jesus.

[Adam]

On 20/06/2017 at 13:59, Broken Cloyd said:

Fuuuuuuuuuuck.
 

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Excellent finale.

Loved the visual of Chuck looking down at everyone from HHM. Great stuff. It's a king looking down on his kingdom one last time. It's Howard, the heir apparent, deposing him.

My initial thought when Chuck said he didn't really ever care for Jimmy was "damn, that's cold". In hindsight, it's textbook suicidal ideation stuff. This was Chuck pushing Jimmy further away, in part to try and lessen the pain for him. It's an obvious lie as well, given what we saw of the two of them as children in the cold open. That whole extended scene with Chuck ripping out paneling and ripping his walls apart was incredibly unsettling to watch, because you're watching a man on the edge going over it. Excellently acted by Michael McKean.

Jimmy throwing himself under the bus to repair Mrs. Landry's relationship with her friends was, I think, maybe the last true, selfless act we get to see from Jimmy McGill. I said in this thread before that I think Chuck's death will be a major factor in the transformation of Jimmy into Saul, and I still believe that. Now the only person left that Jimmy really, truly cares about is Kim. I think losing Chuck will be what puts Jimmy on the edge, and losing Kim - which I assume will happen next season, though, hopefully not as fatal a loss - will be what pushes Jimmy over that edge. Loved that little touch with Jimmy throwing away the rolodex and saying that he's going to have to reinvent himself. He's already given up on Jimmy McGill, but Kim hasn't.

The entire time when Nacho was stalking Hector I was saying to myself "Nacho please Nacho FUCK Nacho come on AH FUCK". I thought for sure that Nacho had been caught when Arturo showed up, but nope, turns out they were supposed to be there anyway. And the pill switch worked! And Gus saves Hector's life (which isn't really that surprising)! And that side-eye from Gus when the ambulance is taking Hector away makes me think he's figured out that Nacho had something to do with it. It's hard not to figure that out, considering the pure euphoria on Nacho's face as the ambulance drives off.


All in all, excellent season. Excellent finale. Can't wait for season 4.

EDIT:

Oh, man. This theory from one commenter on AVClub re: Kim:

 

  Hide contents

"Beyond the chilling final scene, the excruciating interactions with the elderly, and the constant spiral of downward momentum that all these characters constantly face, the line that sent chills down my spine the most was Kim’s, “Always go for the good stuff.”

New Mexico has one of the highest opioid overdose rates in the entire world. And where I went to high school teens popped Oxy like candy. Don’t forget the constant warnings that opioid addiction frequently begins with painkillers for injuries. With that one line and subtle suggestion all I can feel is fear for the future of Kim Wexler."

 

Didn't think of that re: the last theory there. Fits doesn't it?

Your entire post is spot on regarding everything that happened, from how it made me feel to what I think will happen next.

[BUDOKANGAIJINDREAM]

I've often heard the comparisons between Breaking Bad and BCS, but I feel like both shows are an extension of their central focus.

 

Breaking Bad went from a dark comedy to a chilling drama as Walter White lost aspects of the doofus school teacher and transformed into the venomous, treacherous monster he was by the end. It's upfront, it's not subtle about it because White was never genuinely good at being subtle about it either. Whenever steered into the topic on the show, White would always slip up and hand a clue over to someone he really shouldn't have.

 

Better Call Saul is on the surface a comedy, but there's a much darker edge to it just underneath the surface. It's very much Jimmy/Saul, who greets people with a smile and a joke, and a laugh but can be something of a monster himself underneath all of that window dressing. It lulls you far more than Breaking Bad did before it goes for the gut punch.

 

I love both shows, but man, I really think after this season Better Call Saul might be my favorite of the two.

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

Finished Season 3 last night. Man, that was some good shit. I really like Kim, she is just fantastic.