Marvel Cinematic Universe Movie Thread

[Ruki]

It's already made 1.2 billion.....

[tristy]

That gives me fucking goosebumps. Incredible.

[Lint]

Come on lets de-throne Avatar!

[VerbalPuke]

So my wife and I took the boys to see the big marvel movie this weekend

Tons of fun, credit to the kids for sitting through a three hour movie and not complaining or anything. They loved the movie and I tend to agree. I don't really have any deep analysis like some of you guys because honestly I still haven't even seen all of the movies in this timeline. I've seen most of them, but haven't seen the first Avengers, Age of Ultron, Iron Man 2 and 3, and a few of the Captain America movies. Oh well, I'm late to the party on this, it was my kids that got me into these movies honestly. 

Anyway, yeah this was fucking good. I think my favorite part is honestly the huge battle and then the portals opening and mother fucking Black Panther rolls out. Then Dr. Strange, then Spiderman, and of course my beloved Guardians of the Galaxy. 

So yeah, a lot of the call backs to other films went over my head because I've not seen them.

[Azazel]

Spoiler

That was amazing.  Some random things that made me lost my mind:

Cap and Rumlow on the elevator AGAIN, i though there were going to redo the fight until he just said "Hail Hydra" and I lost it.

I've never heard a theatre pop as hard as they did once we heard "on your left" and the portal showed up.

I cried way more than I care to admit.  Thor and his mom, Stark and his dad and Scott and his daughter ruined me.

I'm blown away that they managed to build an entire story arc with Thanos, kill him, but then have past Thanos be the new bad guy with his army back.  It was just a fantastic way to go about the story.

Also, Loki got the Tessaract so now I guess past Loki is alive before he did his full face turn.

I like how they didn't kill off half a dozen characters, instead made us just feel for the loss of two.

Actual part of the movie that I didn't understand and could use help.

Spoiler

During the end funeral when the camera was going from character to character.  Wanda, Bucky and Falcon were together and then it showed one younger looking guy behind them and I honestly have no idea who that was.

 

[Szumi]

@Azazel your second spoiler 

Spoiler

It's the kid from Iron Man 3 that Tony spends a lot of the second act with after his house gets bombed and destroyed

 

[angeluzcr]

3 hours ago, It's Pronounced Zoom-E said:

@Azazel your second spoiler 

  Reveal hidden contents

It's the kid from Iron Man 3 that Tony spends a lot of the second act with after his house gets bombed and destroyed

 

To add to this,in case you haven't watched the movie mentioned:

Spoiler

The kid helped Tony overcome his panic attacks and reminded him that He wasn't as Hero just because he wears the armor.

 

[LittleDaniel]

Now that people have seen it, do y'all think we'd be missing anything too drastically important if our abridged re-watch order was Cap 1 => The Avengers => Winter Soldier => Ultron => Civil War => GOTG1 => Ant-Man => [maybe Raganrock and Homecoming because I really like them but Joey definitely saw them]=> IW => Ant-Man & the Wasp?  The Ant-Men being included because a) I thought they were fun and b) unlike most of the other origin stories my girlfriend didn't see that one.  But I also never ended up seeing Infinity War in theaters because I was waiting to get caught up and don't want to miss out again, so I'm worried about adding toooo much stuff to the list.

Also, I had one (major) thing spoiled for me about the movie, so I was wondering...

if I should include Iron Man 3 in the list to get that Stark arc

[Benjamin]

Yeah, do the thing in the spoiler after Avengers, I think it hits better. 

Also I think GOTG2 I feel is pretty important, so is Ragnarok. There's a few stuff you miss out on otherwise. 

[LittleDaniel]

Yeah, Guardians 2 is in the same 'we saw it together recently enough that I dunno if we need to see it again" pile as Ragnarock for us -- if we have time we'd watch it again but if not we're gonna skip it.

[tristy]

Russo Bros did a Q&A in China about the movie, it answers some burning (but ultimately dumb and very nitpicky/superfan type bullshit) questions.

It's translated from a Chinese website, so broken english ahead.

Spoiler

Q: Why Ironman has to be the one to do the final snap, couldn't the people like Thor, Starlord or Captain Marvel whom all previously have handled the power of Infinity Stones done it instead?

A: Thor in this movie couldn't do it, only Hulk was strong enough to do the snap without dying. We are still not sure whether Captain Marvel can also withstand all the power of Infinity Stones at once. The reason we choose to let Ironman do it in the end was because he was the closest one to Thanos at the time. In all the futures Doctor Strange foresee, Ironman was the only one who could get close to Thanos and do the snap. People usually think the death of a hero is a horrible tragedy. But we think this is different. When his death was able to bring back hope, to save half of the universe, then his death was powerful and meaningful. We shouldn't feel too sad or anger about it.

Q: Peggy Carter was probably already married and in her mid 40s in 1970, in that case what year was it that Captain America went back to dance with her?

A: We can't answer it for now, this is a story that happened in an alternate reality. Maybe it will be revealed in the future.

Q: Did Captain America's action at the end affect the timeline? Does that mean there was a time where two CA existed in a same universe?

A: To me, CA's action in the end wasn't the fact he wanted to change anything, it's more like me has made a choice. He chose to go back to past and lived with the one he loved for the rest of his life. The time travel in this movie created an alternate reality. He lived a completely different life in that world. We don't know how exactly his life turned out, but I'd like to believe he still helped many others when they were needed in that world. Yes, there were two CA in that reality, it's just like what Hulk said, what happened in the past has already happened. If you go back to past, you simply created a new reality. The characters in this movie created new timeline when they went back to the past, but it had no effect to the prime universe. What happened in the past 22 movies was still canon.

Q: In both IW and EG, the heroes tried their back to take the glove away from Thanos, so why didn't Doctor Strange just cut off Thanos' hand with his ability?

A: Thanos' skin is almost impenetrable, we don't know whether Doctor Strange had the capability to do it. If he failed to cut it on time, Thanos would still able to do the snap. Doctor Strange realized this issue during his millions test runs.

Q: Why did you make Thor fat? Did Chris also become fat for the roll or it was done throug CG?

A: It was mostly CGed. Thor suffered more loss than anyone else, he has been living in constant pain and regret.

Q: Was old Cap played Evans using make up? Or it was also post production CG?

A: 95%CG, 5% make up. But the voice was 100% Evans, no modification for that.

Q: Can you get the soul your sacrficed for the Soul Stone back when you return it?

A: No, the process is irreversible. Even if you have returned it to its original location, you wouldn't be able to get the person back. In fact, it's not really returning the stone, more like put it back properly. The tribute soul for the soul stone will forever be sealed in that place, therefore Black Widow is gone forever.

Q: How would Cap react when he encounter Red Skull when he returned the stone?

A: Red Skull would probably put the soul stone back to its location, and wait for the next unfortunate stone seeker to make sacrifice. Cap and Red Skull probably won't fight. It's because it's his mission to return the stone to its original place. The Red Skull is also no longer the same Red Skull from FA. He is more like a ghost, you could almost say he's a completely different entity now. He only exist to guard the stone, his past conscious may or may not exist anymore.

Q: In IW, Thanos used the time stone to reverse the time so he could the already dead Vision, and it didn't cause any time parallax. Why did no one use time stone to save Ironman's life in EG?

A: It's because even if you save Ironman, it will still not change the fact that Thanos will eventually win the war. Among the 14million possibilities that Doctor Strange has seen, Ironman's sacrifice is a must for that one win scenario. This answer is pretty confusing and doesn't make much sense.

Q: How did Thanos bring his army to the future?

A: There is a guy called Maw in his army, he was a great wizard. Thanos himself was a brilliant genius as well. Those two easily reverse engineered and mass produced Pym Particles.

Q: What about those people who got dusted? What did those five years mean to them? Why didn't they grow older when undusted?

A: Yes, those people whom was lucky to survive the snap are 5 years older than the people who just got back. The reason Spider Man saw his friend again in high school at the end was simply because his friends was unfortunately also dusted like Spider Man was. Of course, there are people in his grade whom didn't die and they are probably already in colleges by now. To those dusted people, they had no conscious in these past 5 years. They didn't know what happened. It's as if they had just woke up from a long sleep. The only one who was aware about how many years has passed was Doctor Strange, because he has already seen that when he was time mediating on Titan. Parker's reunion with Tony was a touching moment. There are also people whom indeed moved on but suddenly was reunited with their lost ones. Yeah it's kind a complicated world now.

Q: What if the mouse didn't press the button to turn on the quantum machine, wouldn't that stop EG from happening? Isn't this a bit too much a coincidence?

A: Yes, the MOUSE SAVED UNIVERSE. Among the many realities in those 14millions possible futures Doctor Strange foresee, the mouse failed to press button and thus the heroes failed in those futures.

Q: EG's plot, is it a parallel universe or a closed time loop?

A: Nope, not a time loop. Both Ancinet One and Hulk were right. You can't change the future by simply going back to past. But it's possible to create a different alternate future. It's not butterfly effect. Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline. For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam.

Q: There were some metal smashing sound when the movie ended. Was that easter egg? or just a tribute to Ironman, or maybe an implication that Ironman will return?

A: It was our way to say goodbye to him.

Q: Why there was no Ironman's body in his funeral, only his arc reactor? And is there any secret messages for bring back that kid from Ironman3?

A: We just feel that he should participate in Ironman's funeral. As for whether he will appear again in future, who knows.

Q: Why didn't Black Widow get a funeral as well?

A: Did you forget when the heroes where mourning for her after when they returned from past? Maybe her funeral happened off screen. Maybe it will be shown in future installment, because there are still tons of stories in MCU that are waiting to be tell.

 

[Gabriel]

Thoughts after seeing Endgame

I heard a few people in the theatre after the movie ended wondering about how Black Widow is still getting a solo film, despite sacrificing herself and the confirmation that you cannot bring back someone who was exchanged for the soul stone.

My theory here, is that they aren't bringing her back. So the next question is, will it be a prequel? I don't believe that it will be... and here is why:

They make a point throughout the film of bringing up that no one really knows the ramifications of screwing with the time-stream the way that they did. It's also brought up that time travel doesn't work like in Back to the Future (because how could it?), and instead, what you do when you travel back in time doesn't have any affect on the future from which you came.

So I believe that Marvel used Endgame as a way to introduce Divergent Timelines, or Alternate Realities if you'd prefer... which is really quite genius. This is going to allow Marvel the freedom to kill off characters in our main MCU timeline, which we'll call the 616 Universe, like in the comics and as referenced in The Dark World. How does it allow that freedom? Well, realistically, if say Chris Hemsworth is wanting to be done with Thor after his next film appearance, they could have Thor die in the 616 Universe... but if he decides he wants to return to the role in any form later on, they don't need to come up with some contrived way to bring him back. Leave him dead in the 616 Universe, but have him show up in films that take place in the other universes created by the Avengers time travel from Endgame.

Adding to that, it allows them the ability to re-cast roles without having the same issues that most franchises do when they attempt that. If Hemsworth decides he's done and then doesn't want to come back, they can cast someone else as Thor in one of the divergent timelines and it won't be nearly as jarring for the fans.

Now, I know that someone is going to come in and say something about The Ancient One's explanation. This is what she said: "The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone and that flow splits. Now, this may benefit your reality, but my new one, not so much. In this new branch reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world would be over-run and millions would suffer. Tell me, Doctor, can your science prevent all that?"

So, according to her, removing the stones from a reality and not replacing them would be catastrophic. EXCEPT... when Thanos returned to Titan and used the stones one more time, allowing the heroes to find him, he used the stones to destroy the stones. Therefore, there would be no stones in that reality anymore. So, unless Phase 4 is about a cosmic big bad that comes from the lack of stones, Marvel used that as a way to throw people off the scent a little bit, in regards to alternate realities/divergent timelines.

It is established in the film that going back in time cannot change the future, so even if Captain America returned the Infinity Stones to the exact moment when they were taken, they would still have been taken, meaning that their exploits in the past would have changed what happened, forcing the creation a divergent timeline.

In 2012, instead of Loki being taken to Asgard after the events of the original Avengers film, he escapes with the space stone. I would expect that Loki's Disney+ series will be focused on that timeline. Again, as it is a different timeline, the show will be able to feature other characters without affecting the main 616 Timeline. Interestingly, this timeline's Captain America is believed to be an agent of Hydra because of how Steve Rogers convinced them to let him take the scepter... though, this timeline's Cap is unaware that this happened. I would imagine that something will be done with that, after how Chris Evans said goodbye to the franchise when production wrapped, followed by comments from Kevin Feige and the Russo's saying that we may see more of him. This would be the way to do it, without ruining the ending he was given in Endgame.

In 2013, Thor speaks to his mother Frigga in Valhalla. There isn't anything crazy done here, but it's worth noting that she would have been able to piece it together. The state of her son, the way he told her that there was something she needed to know, and how she reacted to him being there... though nothing crazy happened, it's possible that Frigga figured it out and winds up not dying during the events of The Dark World, in this potential new timeline. Though, it's also possible that because of who she is and what she knows, that she would allow it to happen, hoping that it wouldn't create a new timeline.

In 2014, Peter Quill gets knocked the fuck out by War Machine before he gets to the power stone. It gets returned, but by this point, Thanos has figured out the Avengers plan and dispatched Ronan to Morag. It would stand to reason that a new timeline is created here by Ronan being the one to obtain the stone, while arresting or murdering Star-Lord. So, in that timeline, the events of Guardians of the Galaxy wouldn't come to pass, and with Thanos gone to 2023 with his armies, Ronan would be the one in possession of the power stone, and arguably one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

Also in 2014, Black Widow sacrifices herself so that Hawkeye can claim the soul stone. This releases The Red Skull from his imprisonment as the keeper of the stone. Thanos has gone to the future and died... so the events of Infinity War and Thanos playing puppet-master throughout most of the films don't happen. Ronan is now a very powerful evil, and maybe uses his newfound power to head to Earth in an effort to bring out Captain Marvel. She escaped him once, but at this point, he would be vastly superior to his past self, and may see Earth as a weakness for Carol. She has been accused, and Earth will be judged. That could very well be her next film.

So, now that I've touched on all of that... the Black Widow solo film. I believe that she is completely and utterly dead in the 616 Universe. That being said, her solo film can take place in the 2012 Divergent Timeline. After the Battle of New York, SHIELD and the Avengers believe that Captain America is a Hydra agent. He took the scepter from the Hydra double agents in the elevator, and they don't know where the stone has gone. We know Loki took it, but good luck telling the authorities that. So Cap is on the run, which probably fractures the Avengers team, or causes major changes. Natasha ends up leaving the team in the aftermath and doing solo work for SHIELD. Maybe part of what she's doing is trying to find Steve Rogers, but I wouldn't have him in the film as anything more than a cameo or small part. You don't want to take that attention away from ScarJo.

Of course, in that timeline, Thanos is still alive and working on his master plan...so that has to be considered as well. Not that Black Widow should necessarily be doing anything about that, especially because the Avengers didn't even know about Thanos at that point. But there's a rumored Eternals movie coming. Maybe that movie takes place in this timeline, and they learn about what Thanos has planned and shut him down before he can do it. Or maybe it's Adam Warlock.

There's also the WandaVision show coming to Disney+. Olsen said something that led people to believe that it may be a period piece, but after seeing Endgame and Vision not being brought back, my best guess is that it also will take place in one of the divergent timelines... however, they don't time travel to a point where Vision is still alive. He is created in Age of Ultron, which I believe takes place in 2015. So, for that to work, one of the divergent timelines would need to be similar enough that Tony and Bruce still create Vision, and Scarlet Witch still becomes an Avenger.

Oh, and I didn't even touch on the fact that Captain America and Iron Man traveled back to 1970. They didn't cause much havoc, but it's possible that someone recognized Steve Rogers and that sets off a series of new events, leading to a new timeline. Or it's possible that the missing Pym Particles do the same thing.

What about when Steve went back and stayed with Peggy? I can't imagine he'd be dumb enough to just show up and tell people he was Steve Rogers, but he placed himself in the past, which would HAVE to create a new timeline.

So, beyond the possibilities for all that... why else is this a genius move from Marvel? Because they have the X-Men and Fantastic Four to bring on board at some point. Now, they can choose to plop them into a divergent timeline instead of the 616 Universe... or they could do both. Maybe someone recognizes Steve Rogers in the past, knows that Captain America is alive and sets off to re-engineer the super solider serum, instead creating genetic mutations and leading to the X-Men?

The possibilities are endless here.

[Lint]

So saw a theory today, minor spoilers for Endgame

When Okoye is talking about the earthquakes in the ocean around Africa, some people have taken that to be a hint towards Namor, who has had conflicts with Wakanda in the comic

[TMM]

9 hours ago, Gabriel said:

Thoughts after seeing Endgame

 

  Hide contents

I heard a few people in the theatre after the movie ended wondering about how Black Widow is still getting a solo film, despite sacrificing herself and the confirmation that you cannot bring back someone who was exchanged for the soul stone.

My theory here, is that they aren't bringing her back. So the next question is, will it be a prequel? I don't believe that it will be... and here is why:

They make a point throughout the film of bringing up that no one really knows the ramifications of screwing with the time-stream the way that they did. It's also brought up that time travel doesn't work like in Back to the Future (because how could it?), and instead, what you do when you travel back in time doesn't have any affect on the future from which you came.

So I believe that Marvel used Endgame as a way to introduce Divergent Timelines, or Alternate Realities if you'd prefer... which is really quite genius. This is going to allow Marvel the freedom to kill off characters in our main MCU timeline, which we'll call the 616 Universe, like in the comics and as referenced in The Dark World. How does it allow that freedom? Well, realistically, if say Chris Hemsworth is wanting to be done with Thor after his next film appearance, they could have Thor die in the 616 Universe... but if he decides he wants to return to the role in any form later on, they don't need to come up with some contrived way to bring him back. Leave him dead in the 616 Universe, but have him show up in films that take place in the other universes created by the Avengers time travel from Endgame.

Adding to that, it allows them the ability to re-cast roles without having the same issues that most franchises do when they attempt that. If Hemsworth decides he's done and then doesn't want to come back, they can cast someone else as Thor in one of the divergent timelines and it won't be nearly as jarring for the fans.

Now, I know that someone is going to come in and say something about The Ancient One's explanation. This is what she said: "The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone and that flow splits. Now, this may benefit your reality, but my new one, not so much. In this new branch reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world would be over-run and millions would suffer. Tell me, Doctor, can your science prevent all that?"

So, according to her, removing the stones from a reality and not replacing them would be catastrophic. EXCEPT... when Thanos returned to Titan and used the stones one more time, allowing the heroes to find him, he used the stones to destroy the stones. Therefore, there would be no stones in that reality anymore. So, unless Phase 4 is about a cosmic big bad that comes from the lack of stones, Marvel used that as a way to throw people off the scent a little bit, in regards to alternate realities/divergent timelines.

It is established in the film that going back in time cannot change the future, so even if Captain America returned the Infinity Stones to the exact moment when they were taken, they would still have been taken, meaning that their exploits in the past would have changed what happened, forcing the creation a divergent timeline.

In 2012, instead of Loki being taken to Asgard after the events of the original Avengers film, he escapes with the space stone. I would expect that Loki's Disney+ series will be focused on that timeline. Again, as it is a different timeline, the show will be able to feature other characters without affecting the main 616 Timeline. Interestingly, this timeline's Captain America is believed to be an agent of Hydra because of how Steve Rogers convinced them to let him take the scepter... though, this timeline's Cap is unaware that this happened. I would imagine that something will be done with that, after how Chris Evans said goodbye to the franchise when production wrapped, followed by comments from Kevin Feige and the Russo's saying that we may see more of him. This would be the way to do it, without ruining the ending he was given in Endgame.

In 2013, Thor speaks to his mother Frigga in Valhalla. There isn't anything crazy done here, but it's worth noting that she would have been able to piece it together. The state of her son, the way he told her that there was something she needed to know, and how she reacted to him being there... though nothing crazy happened, it's possible that Frigga figured it out and winds up not dying during the events of The Dark World, in this potential new timeline. Though, it's also possible that because of who she is and what she knows, that she would allow it to happen, hoping that it wouldn't create a new timeline.

In 2014, Peter Quill gets knocked the fuck out by War Machine before he gets to the power stone. It gets returned, but by this point, Thanos has figured out the Avengers plan and dispatched Ronan to Morag. It would stand to reason that a new timeline is created here by Ronan being the one to obtain the stone, while arresting or murdering Star-Lord. So, in that timeline, the events of Guardians of the Galaxy wouldn't come to pass, and with Thanos gone to 2023 with his armies, Ronan would be the one in possession of the power stone, and arguably one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

Also in 2014, Black Widow sacrifices herself so that Hawkeye can claim the soul stone. This releases The Red Skull from his imprisonment as the keeper of the stone. Thanos has gone to the future and died... so the events of Infinity War and Thanos playing puppet-master throughout most of the films don't happen. Ronan is now a very powerful evil, and maybe uses his newfound power to head to Earth in an effort to bring out Captain Marvel. She escaped him once, but at this point, he would be vastly superior to his past self, and may see Earth as a weakness for Carol. She has been accused, and Earth will be judged. That could very well be her next film.

So, now that I've touched on all of that... the Black Widow solo film. I believe that she is completely and utterly dead in the 616 Universe. That being said, her solo film can take place in the 2012 Divergent Timeline. After the Battle of New York, SHIELD and the Avengers believe that Captain America is a Hydra agent. He took the scepter from the Hydra double agents in the elevator, and they don't know where the stone has gone. We know Loki took it, but good luck telling the authorities that. So Cap is on the run, which probably fractures the Avengers team, or causes major changes. Natasha ends up leaving the team in the aftermath and doing solo work for SHIELD. Maybe part of what she's doing is trying to find Steve Rogers, but I wouldn't have him in the film as anything more than a cameo or small part. You don't want to take that attention away from ScarJo.

Of course, in that timeline, Thanos is still alive and working on his master plan...so that has to be considered as well. Not that Black Widow should necessarily be doing anything about that, especially because the Avengers didn't even know about Thanos at that point. But there's a rumored Eternals movie coming. Maybe that movie takes place in this timeline, and they learn about what Thanos has planned and shut him down before he can do it. Or maybe it's Adam Warlock.

There's also the WandaVision show coming to Disney+. Olsen said something that led people to believe that it may be a period piece, but after seeing Endgame and Vision not being brought back, my best guess is that it also will take place in one of the divergent timelines... however, they don't time travel to a point where Vision is still alive. He is created in Age of Ultron, which I believe takes place in 2015. So, for that to work, one of the divergent timelines would need to be similar enough that Tony and Bruce still create Vision, and Scarlet Witch still becomes an Avenger.

Oh, and I didn't even touch on the fact that Captain America and Iron Man traveled back to 1970. They didn't cause much havoc, but it's possible that someone recognized Steve Rogers and that sets off a series of new events, leading to a new timeline. Or it's possible that the missing Pym Particles do the same thing.

What about when Steve went back and stayed with Peggy? I can't imagine he'd be dumb enough to just show up and tell people he was Steve Rogers, but he placed himself in the past, which would HAVE to create a new timeline.

So, beyond the possibilities for all that... why else is this a genius move from Marvel? Because they have the X-Men and Fantastic Four to bring on board at some point. Now, they can choose to plop them into a divergent timeline instead of the 616 Universe... or they could do both. Maybe someone recognizes Steve Rogers in the past, knows that Captain America is alive and sets off to re-engineer the super solider serum, instead creating genetic mutations and leading to the X-Men?

The possibilities are endless here.

 

Give me all of that

[Kaney]

9 hours ago, Gabriel said:

Thoughts after seeing Endgame

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I heard a few people in the theatre after the movie ended wondering about how Black Widow is still getting a solo film, despite sacrificing herself and the confirmation that you cannot bring back someone who was exchanged for the soul stone.

My theory here, is that they aren't bringing her back. So the next question is, will it be a prequel? I don't believe that it will be... and here is why:

They make a point throughout the film of bringing up that no one really knows the ramifications of screwing with the time-stream the way that they did. It's also brought up that time travel doesn't work like in Back to the Future (because how could it?), and instead, what you do when you travel back in time doesn't have any affect on the future from which you came.

So I believe that Marvel used Endgame as a way to introduce Divergent Timelines, or Alternate Realities if you'd prefer... which is really quite genius. This is going to allow Marvel the freedom to kill off characters in our main MCU timeline, which we'll call the 616 Universe, like in the comics and as referenced in The Dark World. How does it allow that freedom? Well, realistically, if say Chris Hemsworth is wanting to be done with Thor after his next film appearance, they could have Thor die in the 616 Universe... but if he decides he wants to return to the role in any form later on, they don't need to come up with some contrived way to bring him back. Leave him dead in the 616 Universe, but have him show up in films that take place in the other universes created by the Avengers time travel from Endgame.

Adding to that, it allows them the ability to re-cast roles without having the same issues that most franchises do when they attempt that. If Hemsworth decides he's done and then doesn't want to come back, they can cast someone else as Thor in one of the divergent timelines and it won't be nearly as jarring for the fans.

Now, I know that someone is going to come in and say something about The Ancient One's explanation. This is what she said: "The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone and that flow splits. Now, this may benefit your reality, but my new one, not so much. In this new branch reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world would be over-run and millions would suffer. Tell me, Doctor, can your science prevent all that?"

So, according to her, removing the stones from a reality and not replacing them would be catastrophic. EXCEPT... when Thanos returned to Titan and used the stones one more time, allowing the heroes to find him, he used the stones to destroy the stones. Therefore, there would be no stones in that reality anymore. So, unless Phase 4 is about a cosmic big bad that comes from the lack of stones, Marvel used that as a way to throw people off the scent a little bit, in regards to alternate realities/divergent timelines.

It is established in the film that going back in time cannot change the future, so even if Captain America returned the Infinity Stones to the exact moment when they were taken, they would still have been taken, meaning that their exploits in the past would have changed what happened, forcing the creation a divergent timeline.

In 2012, instead of Loki being taken to Asgard after the events of the original Avengers film, he escapes with the space stone. I would expect that Loki's Disney+ series will be focused on that timeline. Again, as it is a different timeline, the show will be able to feature other characters without affecting the main 616 Timeline. Interestingly, this timeline's Captain America is believed to be an agent of Hydra because of how Steve Rogers convinced them to let him take the scepter... though, this timeline's Cap is unaware that this happened. I would imagine that something will be done with that, after how Chris Evans said goodbye to the franchise when production wrapped, followed by comments from Kevin Feige and the Russo's saying that we may see more of him. This would be the way to do it, without ruining the ending he was given in Endgame.

In 2013, Thor speaks to his mother Frigga in Valhalla. There isn't anything crazy done here, but it's worth noting that she would have been able to piece it together. The state of her son, the way he told her that there was something she needed to know, and how she reacted to him being there... though nothing crazy happened, it's possible that Frigga figured it out and winds up not dying during the events of The Dark World, in this potential new timeline. Though, it's also possible that because of who she is and what she knows, that she would allow it to happen, hoping that it wouldn't create a new timeline.

In 2014, Peter Quill gets knocked the fuck out by War Machine before he gets to the power stone. It gets returned, but by this point, Thanos has figured out the Avengers plan and dispatched Ronan to Morag. It would stand to reason that a new timeline is created here by Ronan being the one to obtain the stone, while arresting or murdering Star-Lord. So, in that timeline, the events of Guardians of the Galaxy wouldn't come to pass, and with Thanos gone to 2023 with his armies, Ronan would be the one in possession of the power stone, and arguably one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

Also in 2014, Black Widow sacrifices herself so that Hawkeye can claim the soul stone. This releases The Red Skull from his imprisonment as the keeper of the stone. Thanos has gone to the future and died... so the events of Infinity War and Thanos playing puppet-master throughout most of the films don't happen. Ronan is now a very powerful evil, and maybe uses his newfound power to head to Earth in an effort to bring out Captain Marvel. She escaped him once, but at this point, he would be vastly superior to his past self, and may see Earth as a weakness for Carol. She has been accused, and Earth will be judged. That could very well be her next film.

So, now that I've touched on all of that... the Black Widow solo film. I believe that she is completely and utterly dead in the 616 Universe. That being said, her solo film can take place in the 2012 Divergent Timeline. After the Battle of New York, SHIELD and the Avengers believe that Captain America is a Hydra agent. He took the scepter from the Hydra double agents in the elevator, and they don't know where the stone has gone. We know Loki took it, but good luck telling the authorities that. So Cap is on the run, which probably fractures the Avengers team, or causes major changes. Natasha ends up leaving the team in the aftermath and doing solo work for SHIELD. Maybe part of what she's doing is trying to find Steve Rogers, but I wouldn't have him in the film as anything more than a cameo or small part. You don't want to take that attention away from ScarJo.

Of course, in that timeline, Thanos is still alive and working on his master plan...so that has to be considered as well. Not that Black Widow should necessarily be doing anything about that, especially because the Avengers didn't even know about Thanos at that point. But there's a rumored Eternals movie coming. Maybe that movie takes place in this timeline, and they learn about what Thanos has planned and shut him down before he can do it. Or maybe it's Adam Warlock.

There's also the WandaVision show coming to Disney+. Olsen said something that led people to believe that it may be a period piece, but after seeing Endgame and Vision not being brought back, my best guess is that it also will take place in one of the divergent timelines... however, they don't time travel to a point where Vision is still alive. He is created in Age of Ultron, which I believe takes place in 2015. So, for that to work, one of the divergent timelines would need to be similar enough that Tony and Bruce still create Vision, and Scarlet Witch still becomes an Avenger.

Oh, and I didn't even touch on the fact that Captain America and Iron Man traveled back to 1970. They didn't cause much havoc, but it's possible that someone recognized Steve Rogers and that sets off a series of new events, leading to a new timeline. Or it's possible that the missing Pym Particles do the same thing.

What about when Steve went back and stayed with Peggy? I can't imagine he'd be dumb enough to just show up and tell people he was Steve Rogers, but he placed himself in the past, which would HAVE to create a new timeline.

So, beyond the possibilities for all that... why else is this a genius move from Marvel? Because they have the X-Men and Fantastic Four to bring on board at some point. Now, they can choose to plop them into a divergent timeline instead of the 616 Universe... or they could do both. Maybe someone recognizes Steve Rogers in the past, knows that Captain America is alive and sets off to re-engineer the super solider serum, instead creating genetic mutations and leading to the X-Men?

The possibilities are endless here.

 

I think my only major concern with Endgame is basically everything here.

 

I know it's a different medium but one of the things I really liked about the MCU over comics is the fact that it's all streamlined, one specific reality and that's it. In the comics world you have Astonishing XMen, Uncanny XMen etc etc and they're all separate and have their own stories and so on, I could never be motivated to keep up with them all. In the MCU, theres already more than 20 individual films, and it sort of stresses me out to think that there might end up being a line where Black Widow does this but also Gamora doesn't do this and in this crossover episode Ronan is the bad guy but not that Ronan, the other one and bleh.

I have faith that itll be handled better than that but I just generally dislike the whole idea of alternate but concurrent realities when it was all so straightforward to begin with. I'm probably alone on this though.

[TMM]

21 minutes ago, Kaney said:

I think my only major concern with Endgame is basically everything here.

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I know it's a different medium but one of the things I really liked about the MCU over comics is the fact that it's all streamlined, one specific reality and that's it. In the comics world you have Astonishing XMen, Uncanny XMen etc etc and they're all separate and have their own stories and so on, I could never be motivated to keep up with them all. In the MCU, theres already more than 20 individual films, and it sort of stresses me out to think that there might end up being a line where Black Widow does this but also Gamora doesn't do this and in this crossover episode Ronan is the bad guy but not that Ronan, the other one and bleh.

I have faith that itll be handled better than that but I just generally dislike the whole idea of alternate but concurrent realities when it was all so straightforward to begin with. I'm probably alone on this though.

Spoiler

While I agree with this, as long as it's made clear that it's separate (subtitle of Ultimate?) and they are stand alone tales, I think it's a very smart idea. It allows people like Chris Evans to come back for a one-off if he wants to because there's enough meat for a fun, alternate reality film that can do whatever they want because it's not linked

 

[Szumi]

Spoiler

I'll be pretty surprised if they do any alternate reality timeline movies. In the Disney+ streaming service, I totally see it. But I would hope the brains behind MCU know how much of a convulted mess that would be.

For Disney+, you have a divergent timeline of Loki getting the Space Stone and avoiding capture after Avengers; you have a divergent timeline of Cap being alive in the past with Peggy, potentially out in the open and still fighting crime; and a 2014 timeline where there's no Thanos, Gamora, Nebula, or any of the Children of Thanos now.

I would really love to see a few episodes of Cap in the Past. Cap fighting fucking Russians, preventing Bucky from being turned into the Winter Soldier, and preventing the secret rise of Hydra. Give me all of that.

One thing that is still just so lazy writing to me though in Endgame

Spoiler

How Thanos got all his children and army to show up. I saw the Q&A that said they could've easily recreated the Pym Particles, which I can believe. But Thanos bombed the shit out of the facility and destroyed the Time Heist Machine. So what, am I supposed to believe that Thanos' right hand man not only mass replicated the Pym Particles, but also figured out time travel and created a machine too?? 

I'm just not seeing that.

 

[Kaney]

1 hour ago, It's Pronounced Zoom-E said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I'll be pretty surprised if they do any alternate reality timeline movies. In the Disney+ streaming service, I totally see it. But I would hope the brains behind MCU know how much of a convulted mess that would be.

For Disney+, you have a divergent timeline of Loki getting the Space Stone and avoiding capture after Avengers; you have a divergent timeline of Cap being alive in the past with Peggy, potentially out in the open and still fighting crime; and a 2014 timeline where there's no Thanos, Gamora, Nebula, or any of the Children of Thanos now.

I would really love to see a few episodes of Cap in the Past. Cap fighting fucking Russians, preventing Bucky from being turned into the Winter Soldier, and preventing the secret rise of Hydra. Give me all of that.

One thing that is still just so lazy writing to me though in Endgame

  Hide contents

How Thanos got all his children and army to show up. I saw the Q&A that said they could've easily recreated the Pym Particles, which I can believe. But Thanos bombed the shit out of the facility and destroyed the Time Heist Machine. So what, am I supposed to believe that Thanos' right hand man not only mass replicated the Pym Particles, but also figured out time travel and created a machine too?? 

I'm just not seeing that.

 

Did they not all just come with Thanos? It was the entire ship that Nebula transported through the time heist machine, not Thanos on his own. And it showed the big fucking gorilla things being brought out the ship with the rest of the army so I just assume they travelled with him, no?

[Szumi]

6 minutes ago, Kaney said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Did they not all just come with Thanos? It was the entire ship that Nebula transported through the time heist machine, not Thanos on his own. And it showed the big fucking gorilla things being brought out the ship with the rest of the army so I just assume they travelled with him, no?

 

Spoiler

But there were those other ships that come down when the huge battle starts. There was WAY too many guys and machines there, unless they were all shrunk using Pym Particles until Maw made them big again

 

[Tigerstyle]

One of the huge problems with the DCU is no coherency, it’s why it doesn’t work and won’t work. The idea of alternative MCU realities won’t go down well with the masses. It’s a bad idea