SirMichaelJordan

Not necessarily a tribute show but it's a indy event that brings in legends and top indy guys in the business. Its one of the biggest indy shows in the year.

Any plans to add annual wrestling events like Wrestlecade?

This insight could help with setting some personalities. These quotes come from Adam Ryland. paraphrasing

I agree with the colour comentary observation also. Personaliies is something thats really underuse in TEW IMO. It really is a miscellaneous category. Celebs fit here if they were to be added. Someone like Jojo, Eve or Renee (probably rate Renee on ENT) could be added to a angle to give interviews and you probably would base them on sex appeal for the fact they will most likely just be holding the mic vs someone like Coachman who would also be a colour commentators and would get rated on entertainment during a interview segment. Or maybe a old school type of interviews where there isn't much entertainment going on from the interviewer but just asking of questions, he'd be rated on mic.

Note that ring announcer aren't really represented in the game. Annoucer is refering to PbP announcer. Closes thing to a ring announcer in the game and would be more realistic is Personlity. Someone like Lilian Garcia and Jojo should be personalities. I don't ever think Jojo would be calling matches so I would remove announcer from her.

Nice. Some really good ratings over there.

I use to have the B shows on the same day as the A shows so they would tape Raw and Superstars then Smackdown and Main Event however the AI would pick the venue to cater for the B show and not the A show thats why the A and B shows are seperate. As for Smackdown on Wednesdays, likley down to human error. the NXT callups are included, might have missed Parker though. I thought the A/B show venue bug was fixed.

How about Reality Of Wrestling could you add that as a none active also?

Reigns selling should be bumped a bit if its on the low end and Brock's Psychology deserves to be increased a little bit (if its on the low end as well) That WM main event had some pretty decent psychology in it and there were power moves to start the match

I am not sure where you got this idea but I never said EVERY guy from 20-30 years ago where better at in ring story telling than today's wrestlers nor did I suggest that all old school wrestlers should be rated higher than every modern wrestler...That is where you are getting at with your rant. I am sure there are old school wrestlers that are poorly rated at psychology in the mod and besides that, I am not talking about how Random Joe Texas from the 80's should be better than Indy guy #2 because he was from a era...again, I'm sure there are tons of old guys in the mod with poor psychology. I did say that one era were more advance at the art of psychology then the other but that doesn't mean Ultimate Warrior should be rated much higher than Adam Cole...So I am not understanding where you are coming from with that. I am talking about a gap between the upper echelon psychology master from the old school (Taker, Flair, Hogan, etc) vs the upper echelon of today and not Sid Vicious or someone who sucked in that area to fit your narrative. Besides, Im sure Sid has better in ring story telling than some random Indie guy so I am not seeing your point there either. Fact is, Sid worked live matches on TV for both big companies, I don't see how indy wrestler #24500 is so much better with less experience. They both might suck but I am sure the vet sucks a little less... A company tailored to be a spot fest or not is irrelevant as psychology is all about knowing when to or not to perform a spot, how to use the many moves in your arsenal its about drawing emotion from the crowd with great timing and in a sense "telling a story" ...So if a power bomb to start the match make sense then I don't see how anything is wrong with that because there's a difference between pulling off as many crowd pleasing moves as possible vs doing a lot of moves that make sense for the match. Maybe the guy delivering the power moves so early is trying to take advantage of a smaller and weaker opponent... ECW was known for being over booked so I don't see your point in saying "Indies get criticized for doing the same thing" the people you named were known for being able to tell a story and Jerry Lynn (not mentioned but was the best in the company at psychology) was great at telling a story, its not a coincidence that RVD's best matches were against this guy. He made RVD's move sets and spot make sense instead of being all over the placed. And what you just wrote in your Luche Libre example is telling a story and in fact, thats their bread and butter...Its not how a WWE match would go but its a sense of drama involved in there and there is a story being told. Ring Psychology is not only rest spots, working on a limb or body part to set up a finisher...Good Psychology is like having the ability to put all of your cool ideas (moves and spots) into a good movie script instead of a poorly written script like all the SAW moves after SAW 1. Those movies have all of the cool ideas but they were all over the place and most of the cool kills didn't make any sense. Also, CM Punk was with WWE for nearly 10 years, you don't think he got better at in ring story telling? Beside, you also miss the point as I never said veterans only deserve a high rating in that area...

Think about what YOU are saying, then maybe, just maybe, you will understand what is being said to you. Your own post kind of proves my point anyway, Robbie E is 31, the post in question was made in late 2013 when he would have just turned 30. Hardly a veteran of the old days but with "pretty good psychology". It is not therefore out of his own advice to put some of the better workers on a borderline position, something like 60 seems reasonable enough within the realms of the game for someone who is one of the top workers as far as basics and in ring ability but still has a lot to learn about this element of things. It's where the guidance of those Road Agents brings them up. They're fairly stand out in large elements but lacking that something. Since we're using Cole as an example - he's a young worker who after 8 years has worked all over the world and is widely regarded as one of the best despite his young years. He's worked with some great people both in the ring and behind the scenes and is bound to have absorbed things from them, I'm sure you'll say Liger is shit but I'd trust in and around his matches with Cole they communicated at some point. In the note here, he says he'd give Christopher Daniels an 80, who has Cole been doing programs against for RoH on and off? I'm only arguing the merits of one person here, because it's the example you bought forward, I don't know every single person in the world and you're going to be exactly the same. For that reason though I'm arguing against your blanket change, I think as a general rule of thumb the fairly conservative estimates given by TheWho in most stats helps some form of balance which creates a relatively accurate picture. It won't be perfect and people will haggle over details on it but it's not a bad reflection people are roughly where they should be for the most part. My personal opinion is that Jimmy Havoc could do with a boost, although he's not particularly mainstream I think he's charismatic - he only seems to need to look at people for them to want to dismember him - and is brilliant at telling a story in the ring - his recent Progress match against Will Ospreay is one of my favourite matches which told a compelling story I've seen for a few years - but someone else may think entirely the opposite. Thats relative to a big company. A 60 in a small company is not the same as a 60 in a big company...There are many bonuses that the game give for stats and some of the stats like phycology are relative to the segment grade when considering bonuses/penalties. Small companies aren't getting grades in the 80's like a WWE... A 66 in a National level company is good while a 66 in a Small level company is excellent. Works the same as having a E- company pulling out a E+ show grade, thats a great grade for that company but a terrible grade for someone much bigger. I think thats the disconnect here. Also, saying that Robbie E has a good rating in phycology stat doesn't mean he's getting a 70 or even a 80....First off all you'll notice the OP mention that he assume he had help from the bookers meaning that he do not believe Robbie was calling the match and second of all TNA is not that big of a company so a 60 would be a serviceable rating. Booby Roode was only a 70 in his eyes... You'll notice not much if any all the top full time active wrestlers broke the 80's in his example. He gave veteran guys who were great in this area 100. 100/80 is pretty much the same gap of 90/70. Whether there's a raise in veterans from the old school or a decrease in the new crop of worker, the original point was there needs to be a bigger gap between the two especially since the development area in the game has been patched since release. There is no sliding scale of psychology, every wrestler in the game is rated on the same 0-100 method so the size of the company is not REALLY a relative factor in things like psychology, Word of God has already explained that psychology effects don't really change from point to point and you'll be raised/dinged in the same way regardless of company size. If we take that 60 is slightly above average, the top independent wrestlers of the world can comfortably tell a decent/good story in a match and that would be covered by a 60. What will happen is that they will ultimately peter out at a lower peak without the guidance of the right people and that's right and realisitic. Most wrestlers improve and learn more by working more matches, including of course some with more experienced workers and working in different areas. Who said Robbie E was a 70 or 80? What he said was that he must be pretty good, that would probably put him in at around 60 but it's hard to tell as he doesn't have many top row skills which is relatively understandable on the basis that the WWE head trainer until this week was someone who was never more than a midcard jobber to the stars, the replacement not reaching a much higher level. He probably has the help of an Agent (which 90% of matches in the world don't) but there's a reason TNA stuck a green Jessie and at times reckless Zema Ion with Robbie E, he plays the role of the vet and they're there to learn more from him. Honestly though, if you're going to use exactly what Derek B was saying regarding those things you're getting nowhere. While it's a good general guide when he gives examples of skills it is entirely his own opinion piece. He rationalises why HE would put people at a certain figure but it is easily debatable as a lot of these things are. A blanket rise on Vet A because he's old, or a blanket drop on Seasoned Hand B because he's younger on an age plucked out of someones arse still makes no sense. What makes sense, and is right, is that not everybody will necessarily become a 100% psychological mastermind and less will do it without the right guidance but the people who can do that will vary. They may have a decent base but it's down to how they're handled if they're going to make the next big step up. Treat Adam Cole with his slightly above average psychology as the big vet and he won't get much farther, put him in the ring with more experienced opponents and he will get better. It's fairly straight forward and the mod generally represents that and ultimately it's small fry haggling over people we like and don't like. This will be my last post on this as I don't want to make this a long thread about one stat. You're right, "technically" the rating is not relative to a company's size but the way the game works, the higher the match grade the higher the worker's psychology needs to be. So since a indy company shouldn't be putting on 70's & 80's rated matches a psychology rating around 50 is more than enough to avoid penalties and is considered a good rating when main eventing at a small company vs someone main eventing WWE. Heck, it may be good enough for a WWE undercard where Indy guys will be starting at once on the main roster. (and built up from there) as mention before, you only need a 66 to use call in ring without penalties at a small company's main event (you cant at a big company since the segment grade should rate well beyond a 66) In a nutshell, segment length and quality determines how high psychology needs to be presented in a match (it uses the worker with the highest psychology rating and it needs to be a certain % of the match grade) At this point we are really arguing two different points. I don't really care where Adam Cole is set at, I'm not arguing that he should be a 50 instead of a 60 but rather the gap between legends and current talent needs to be bigger. My suggestion was to make the gap wider by reducing full time active wrestlers by 10 while making the case that its ok to lower guys in this stat without hurting things. Maybe raising legends by 10 and making guys like Taker a 100 is a better way to widen the gap. But my original point wasn't about individual workers... DerekB worked on the game (tester) and the CVerse (expanded) so his opinion is valuable when it comes to modding. I don't care where he rates a certain guy because ratings are subjective but what's important is how he rates. It doesn't matter if he thinks Bryan is a 85 in psychology and Cena is a 84 what does matter is that someone like Taker, Hogan and other legends are rated much higher than the current wrestlers. Its not because he say it should be that way, its because its what its actually like in real life. Anyone who've been around will tell you guys from 20-30 years ago were better at telling a story in ring than the current stars of today. For one, guys weren't doing 1001 moves and had to tell a story with the basic moves they had.

Think about what YOU are saying, then maybe, just maybe, you will understand what is being said to you. Your own post kind of proves my point anyway, Robbie E is 31, the post in question was made in late 2013 when he would have just turned 30. Hardly a veteran of the old days but with "pretty good psychology". It is not therefore out of his own advice to put some of the better workers on a borderline position, something like 60 seems reasonable enough within the realms of the game for someone who is one of the top workers as far as basics and in ring ability but still has a lot to learn about this element of things. It's where the guidance of those Road Agents brings them up. They're fairly stand out in large elements but lacking that something. Since we're using Cole as an example - he's a young worker who after 8 years has worked all over the world and is widely regarded as one of the best despite his young years. He's worked with some great people both in the ring and behind the scenes and is bound to have absorbed things from them, I'm sure you'll say Liger is shit but I'd trust in and around his matches with Cole they communicated at some point. In the note here, he says he'd give Christopher Daniels an 80, who has Cole been doing programs against for RoH on and off? I'm only arguing the merits of one person here, because it's the example you bought forward, I don't know every single person in the world and you're going to be exactly the same. For that reason though I'm arguing against your blanket change, I think as a general rule of thumb the fairly conservative estimates given by TheWho in most stats helps some form of balance which creates a relatively accurate picture. It won't be perfect and people will haggle over details on it but it's not a bad reflection people are roughly where they should be for the most part. My personal opinion is that Jimmy Havoc could do with a boost, although he's not particularly mainstream I think he's charismatic - he only seems to need to look at people for them to want to dismember him - and is brilliant at telling a story in the ring - his recent Progress match against Will Ospreay is one of my favourite matches which told a compelling story I've seen for a few years - but someone else may think entirely the opposite. Thats relative to a big company. A 60 in a small company is not the same as a 60 in a big company...There are many bonuses that the game give for stats and some of the stats like phycology are relative to the segment grade when considering bonuses/penalties. Small companies aren't getting grades in the 80's like a WWE... A 66 in a National level company is good while a 66 in a Small level company is excellent. Works the same as having a E- company pulling out a E+ show grade, thats a great grade for that company but a terrible grade for someone much bigger. I think thats the disconnect here. Also, saying that Robbie E has a good rating in phycology stat doesn't mean he's getting a 70 or even a 80....First off all you'll notice the OP mention that he assume he had help from the bookers meaning that he do not believe Robbie was calling the match and second of all TNA is not that big of a company so a 60 would be a serviceable rating. Booby Roode was only a 70 in his eyes... You'll notice not much if any all the top full time active wrestlers broke the 80's in his example. He gave veteran guys who were great in this area 100. 100/80 is pretty much the same gap of 90/70. Whether there's a raise in veterans from the old school or a decrease in the new crop of worker, the original point was there needs to be a bigger gap between the two especially since the development area in the game has been patched since release.

Except the part where you said to mass edit everyone under the age of 40 to have lower psychology. It's not in as many words but that's the suggestion you made. That's fine, people around the lower to mid 60s aren't "good", they're decent and those in that region are about right. Those who are on the better end of that scale should be around 60, you agree with me. No, mass editing really didn't make sense. The suggestion that everyone under the age of 40 are automatically several tiers below people over is just silly. Looking through highest rated matches and although it's subjective the age isn't really a factor. CM Punk and Samoa Joe were having phenomenal 5* rated matches for Ring of Honor in their mid 20s. You may not rate them per se, but it doesn't mean that they can't do the required job. Jake Roberts is widely accepted as one of the all time greats for ring psychology and he was only 31 when he had his brilliant feud with Macho Man and was a washed up mess by the time he was 40 due to the myriad of demons he had. He only really had about 5/6 years at the top level. Yes, and a 25 year old who is rated as one of the 10 best wrestlers in the world* at the moment is someone who I'm sure is a good contender to be rated Strong and on the upper level of that standard. There would be an argument possibly for raising that but I personally think 60 at this stage in his career is about right. Of the top 10, 5 of them are under 30, 1 is over 40. Number 1 is 33. *according to PWI500, I know it's not 110% reliable but it's not too far out and a general gauge of the wrestling industry. It at least shows people who are amongst the most highly regarded even if you don't agree with the specifics. Except the part where you said to mass edit everyone under the age of 40 to have lower psychology. It's not in as many words but that's the suggestion you made. That's fine, people around the lower to mid 60s aren't "good", they're decent and those in that region are about right. Those who are on the better end of that scale should be around 60, you agree with me. No, mass editing really didn't make sense. The suggestion that everyone under the age of 40 are automatically several tiers below people over is just silly. Looking through highest rated matches and although it's subjective the age isn't really a factor. CM Punk and Samoa Joe were having phenomenal 5* rated matches for Ring of Honor in their mid 20s. You may not rate them per se, but it doesn't mean that they can't do the required job. Jake Roberts is widely accepted as one of the all time greats for ring psychology and he was only 31 when he had his brilliant feud with Macho Man and was a washed up mess by the time he was 40 due to the myriad of demons he had. He only really had about 5/6 years at the top level. Yes, and a 25 year old who is rated as one of the 10 best wrestlers in the world* at the moment is someone who I'm sure is a good contender to be rated Strong and on the upper level of that standard. There would be an argument possibly for raising that but I personally think 60 at this stage in his career is about right. Of the top 10, 5 of them are under 30, 1 is over 40. Number 1 is 33. *according to PWI500, I know it's not 110% reliable but it's not too far out and a general gauge of the wrestling industry. It at least shows people who are amongst the most highly regarded even if you don't agree with the specifics. You totally miss the point. And I am not saying the rating should be based on age... Its a poplar opinion that phycology in today's wrestling is a lost art, its a rare attribute to have these days and it should be reflected in a mod that is trying to replicate the modern era. and FYI having a 5 star match doesn't translate into having high phycology. other things like Basics, Consistency and In Ring Skills factor in. You're opinions are coming from "this is how I feel" rather "this is how the game is designed to work". Example of that is "a 60 is not good" which is false considering we were talking about indy wrestlers. a 60 for someone is a decent rating in a company like WWE but its a great rating for a small company and 66 at a small company is equivalent to someone with rating of 80+ in WWE as they will be able to call the match and get a bonus. Again this is not EWR. For reference

I did not say any of the sort... Point is in TEW, you don't need to be a 80 to be consider to have good phycology, in fact to have a attribute to be considered "good" (according to filters) you only need a 66/C+ minumin. The idea of lowering someone translating into saying that a person suck is the reason why so many real world mods are inflated with high stats... This is not EWR. Mass edit made sense considering everyone is rated by scales and the scales seem to be from 1-10 and are put into a category. Every top full time wrestler that are considered good has a 80 for phycology then you have your next tier of workers. I agree with the tiers for the most part, the gap just isn't big enough from the new generation of workers to the old school. Plus it makes those old semi active and retire workers more valuable to the game as road agents, trainers, in-ring trainers. Example. You mention that "decent" doesn't seem absurd to you for a top ROH talent (Cole), well the thing is, if you drop him to 50 (from 60) he will still be listed as "decent". 48/D+ (actually 47.1/D+) is the average in the game. You can get a good idea of the scaling in the game by messing around with the quick set worker skill presets. "Strong" is a C minimum (60). "Excellent" (The highest) only need a B minimum (78). Attribute levels (the levels you'll see if you play with Fog of War on) are listed as. Abysmal Very Weak Weak Below Average Average Above Average Strong Very Strong Excellent

IMO. I think you should mass edit all workers that are under the age of 40 (or full time active wrestlers) Phycology by 10. Phycology is probably the only thing that is overly rated in the mod and it stands out because Physcolgy is a lost art in today's wrestling. Its glaring in the Indies where most matches are move after move and for the most time some of the matches come off as stunt work instead of workers telling stories. One guy that really stand out is ACH who has a 60 which is considered as an overall "decent" rating in TEW (according to search filters) Someone like Adam Cole who is only about 25 have a Phycology of 60. That is slightly overrated considering a 66 (C+) at a small level company is considered great and will be able to use the "Call in Ring" booking decision without penalty. Also Sami Zayne (and all of the best under 40 young wrestlers) is a 80, Taker is a 90. That is too close of a gap considering 90 seem to be the max you gave workers which is not bad at all.