David Beckham's MLS 2020

[Meacon Keaton]

I don't understand where this is coming from. I thought you were excited about Miami finally getting a club. 

[OctoberRaven]

31 minutes ago, Mr. Meacon Moneybags said:

I don't understand where this is coming from. I thought you were excited about Miami finally getting a club. 

Miami's already got one though. And they don't play 40 miles away from Miami.

And where Beckham's shitshow actually is, there's already a team there, and they're managed by people who actually give a fuck about South Florida.

Also, up until recently I've been living in Ft Lauderdale (which is, again, not Miami) for the last 15 years or so, and given the choice I'd still be living there. Beckham's clown show didn't mean anything to me until they shit on my lawn. Then they took a shit on my lawn, and I'm right pissed.

[LL!]

1 hour ago, OctoberRaven said:

Yes, he did disrespect the legendary legacy of beautiful Lockhart Stadium.

No, I chose the word because he's the absolute worst thing to happen to South Florida since the 1935 Labor Day Hurricane, and a vile human being worth nothing but contempt.

Thanks for disregarding Hurricane Andrew in 1992. It just goes to show how twisted your narrative is. 

[OctoberRaven]

35 minutes ago, LL. said:

Thanks for disregarding Hurricane Andrew in 1992. It just goes to show how twisted your narrative is. 

I actually almost did say Andrew, but felt that was too recent to be made light of and I was going for hyperbolic effect. I also figured you've probably lived through that, as I have, and didn't want that brought up.

My narrative is the fucking truth. The only thing twisted is how Beckham celebrated the destruction of a historic venue for a fucking pop-up. That's fucking classless. You don't celebrate demolition. You celebrate breaking ground. Only a fucking scumbag would celebrate destroying a historic venue.

And for that matter, you don't destroy a historic venue for a temporary building you don't even want in the first fucking place.

There's a hundred ways Beckham could have gone about setting up a team here that respected South Florida, and he chose the most disrespectful way possible. Fuck David Beckham, nothing he has done before or after matters, nothing he can do can bring back Lockhart Stadium, the REAL Lockhart Stadium. The only thing he can do that will be beneficial for the sport is to relinquish the grounds at the first opportunity to a group willing to rebuild something that respects what came before. And as he's got the rights to it until 2070 for some reason (probably because he figures that's how long it'll take to get a deal in Miami, and given his level of utter incompetence, that's a bit ambitious tbh) that's never going to happen. So fuck him.

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

He could solve all of this by calling it Outer Miami instead.

[Naitch]

I don't know much about Inter Miami, beyond Beckham being arguably the best right midfielder to ever grace English football, but the Tampa Bay Rowdies have a great-looking (like David) set up and a strong partnership with Norwich City. It's because they both wear yellow and green, how quaint!

[METALMAN]

3 minutes ago, Naitch said:

 Beckham being arguably the best right midfielder to ever grace English football, 

Yeah I guess. If we lived in a world where Steve Stone never existed.

[Rich]

1 hour ago, metalman said:

Yeah I guess. If we lived in a world where Steve Stone never existed.

He said arguably

 

11 hours ago, OctoberRaven said:

Yes, he did disrespect the legendary legacy of beautiful Lockhart Stadium.

 

The legacy of this?:

Given that the whole area is becoming the training and academy and Inter Miami are covering the costs of all the upkeepp and upgrade of the area, and is going to basically be used for everything BUT the actual stadium for Inter Miami's games, I would say Ft Lauderdale have done okay out of this and your dribble about this "Historic" stadium is just that... dribble.

[gunnar hendershow]

The Yankees tore down the original Yankee Stadium, the Orioles tore down Memorial Stadium, the Tigers tore down Tiger Stadium, and the White Sox tore down Comiskey Park. The Polo Grounds and Ebbets Field were both bulldozed after their teams left town.

If America's most historic sport doesn't place that level of reverence on a lot of its stadiums, it's really hard for me to see any historic nature of a soccer stadium. Maybe Steel Field, where Bethlehem Steel played in the early 1900s deserves some historic treatment but hard to think of anything else. But that has been heavily renovated to keep up with the times that there isn't really a history left.

And I know a team called "Inter Miami" currently playing in Ft. Lauderdale isn't exactly correct. Granted a huge number of professional sports teams, not just in the US, play outside of the city they are named for. But in Miami's case it has always been established that they were going to hunt down a deal closer to or in Miami for a stadium and an entertainment complex (since that's what they all like to do now). Unless you're NYCFC, who seemingly can just hang out at Yankee Stadium forever, MLS is very clear of what they want from each franchise. If Inter Miami said "this stadium in Ft. Lauderdale that is clearly better served for a B team, training, and youth development is going to be our permanent home" then they might not have been as welcomed by the league.

And, yes, a scenario where there's a proper US soccer pyramid with countless clubs down to small towns would be wonderful and would avoid a scenario where Inter Miami comes in and basically established itself as the official team of an entire, large region. But US sports simply do not operate that way and never will. They are franchise-based and if you put the money up for a franchise to participate in the league you're going to want to make sure you have a large geographic footprint to call your own. And as MLS is quickly establishing a working relationship or outright ownership with USL clubs it's probably only a matter of time until Miami FC is brought under the purview of Inter Miami.

[FestiveJack]

Inter Miami don't need to build a stadium in Miami, they can just play in all that space they've got rent free in OctoberRaven's head.

[OctoberRaven]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

He said arguably

 

The legacy of this?:

Given that the whole area is becoming the training and academy and Inter Miami are covering the costs of all the upkeepp and upgrade of the area, and is going to basically be used for everything BUT the actual stadium for Inter Miami's games, I would say Ft Lauderdale have done okay out of this and your dribble about this "Historic" stadium is just that... dribble.

Shockingly, grass grows when not tended to and it was left unused after the second wave Strikers left due to a go-nowhere deal with German water park company schlitterbahn.

Also, here's things you're mistaken about:

-The former Lockhart grounds aren't a permanent stadium or training ground. It's a temporary stadium, built to be taken down the instant Beckham gets a Miami field (if he ever gets one). The training ground is actually being built at what was Fort Lauderdale Baseball stadium, just to the north, which was condemned anyway. The temporary stadium, when discarded, will be replaced with fuck all, but Beckham will still have the rights to it out of spite.

-Beckham's group wasn't the only people interested in Lockhart. There was a competing bid who had detailed, long-term, permanent plans two years in the making to renovate Lockhart into grounds for a new professional team and potentially youth programs.

-It didn't need to be demolished. Beckham gave a bunk story about asbestos but despite multiple renewal projects, asbestos was never found in condemnable amounts in the stadium, nor was such amounts of it found in the demolition. In short, Beckham committed fraud to get his way.

-Speaking of Yankee Stadium, collectors wanted memorabilia from it before it was demolished, including noted Yankee person George Steinbrenner. Beckham didn't honor anyone's request, for no reason other than being a petty prick.

-The deal behind Beckham's bid had a lot of shady dealings going around, such as public discussion of the vote happening after a closed door session of the vote, among other things. Beckham also started demolition during a pending lawsuit against him and the city of Ft Lauderdale over these shady goings.

-MLS has never wanted to be in Ft Lauderdale (in fact, they specifically told Beckham he couldn't be in Ft Lauderdale, but changed their tune later because Beckham is such a dimwit he couldn't get it done in Miami, see below), and the people of Ft Lauderdale (not the crooked council) never cared for MLS' attitude towards the city and of grassroots footy. They weren't wanted in any form, but another Miami team that didn't want to be here in the first place was the worst part of it.

-There was no reason to be there in the first place. There's a stadium that's easily used as a temporary grounds in the Miami area already. It's called Joe Robbie Stadium and the fact that it was never even considered is proof that Beckham does not give a fuck about Miami or Ft Lauderdale.

 

So yeah, fuck Beckham, fuck his illegal land deal, fuck the crooks that helped him, fuck Inter Miami, fuck MLS front office.

[OctoberRaven]

6 hours ago, Jericode said:

He could solve all of this by calling it Outer Miami instead.

Actually, anything that at least embraces all of South Florida in the main club branding would have at least been the bare minimum gesture. Didn't even have to be a name change. Three shitty loons representing Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach. A winking reference that Miami Vice was filmed mostly in Ft Lauderdale. 954 along 305 on the scarves. Something. Changing your shitty reserve team name isn't even bare minimum, it's just to avoid the fact that they're in the same league as real Miami FC.

[gunnar hendershow]

It's fair that they could use Hard Rock Stadium, but they'd have to lease out the field. Despite some teams doing it MLS is not a fan of shared stadiums. NYCFC basically have to build their entire schedule around a baseball team. Seattle, Chicago, Atlanta, Toronto, Vancouver, and maybe one or two I'm missing all share their stadiums. Sharing with an NFL or CFL team isn't the worst. But typically an MLS game is going to close the upper section of a stadium and that's lost revenues for the stadium so it potentially becomes too costly for the team leasing out the field when they could instead use their own facility. Hard Rock has tennis, college football, and pro football all going on during the typical MLS season. Plus I'm sure it hosts concerts, etc. If it can be avoided MLS doesn't seem very keen on letting teams share stadiums (unless they're NYCFC) and they make a condition of being an expansion franchise having a plan, or multiple plans, in place for a soccer-specific stadium. 

Now this push for soccer-specific stadiums hasn't been met universally. And for every DC United waiting it out until the perfect deal comes along there's a Chicago Fire who can't draw at their soccer-specific stadium and successfully lobby to return to an NFL stadium. Atlanta basically gets to stay at their NFL staidum. Dallas plays in a bedroom community. RBNY play in NJ and it's a pain to get to their games from NYC or Long Island. And sometimes, as in the case of Seattle, they draw so well that it seems outrageous to have them leave their NFL stadium. MLS likes money first and foremost, but they clearly want their teams not to be leasing out stadiums and instead wants them to have ownership over their grounds so that they can in turn become revenue streams. So when that's on the table, MLS pushes ahead with that plan.

As a result they'd never use Hard Rock Stadium unless it was a last resort.

Also. Where do you have evidence they want to eventually not keep their team headquarters or training ground at the current site? Haven't been able to find anything when googling it. That goes for a lot of your statements, can't find anything when searching online.

[OctoberRaven]

Thing is, again, former Lockhart was out of the question by the MLS. They said he HAD to have it in the immediate Miami area. It wasn't until Beckham was stalled in plans in Miami (which, well, pretty much anyone would have seen coming, as the debacle of Marlins Park is fresh in people's minds) that they allowed temporary grounds to even be considered. Joe Robbie in a Miami suburb (easier to get to, though parking is admittedly a pain), more palatable to Inter Miami's core base (Southern Legion explicitly was hardline against Lockhart even being considered... until Beckham gave up on Miami, fucking hypocrites).

A lease deal isn't great but is infinitely preferable to having to play in a city where the local footy fans don't want anything to do with you, and your home footy fans have been notorious for disliking because of the travel time. Especially when the lease deal also gives you the benefit of playing at an even more iconic stadium, that is probably going to host  World Cup matches down the road.

And as far as the team headquarters bit, it's a bit hard to find admittedly, because the old Ft Lauderdale Stadium is, well, less historic than Lockhart, with it's main claim to fame being training camp for the Yankees and later Orioles way back when.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Inter+Miami+CF+Stadium/@26.1931127,-80.1610244,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xb818163d6d07a4f5!8m2!3d26.1931127!4d-80.1610244

Depending on your view of Google Maps, you'll see either three green rectangles in map view or an old baseball stadium in sattelite. That's old Ft Lauderdale Stadium, which Beckham also bought the right to for this purpose.

The Beckham proposal is sparse on details, but on page 18 you can see where they plan to have the permanent USL League One grounds:

http://www.trbas.com/media/media/acrobat/2019-03/70035484402980-04141100.pdf

Where the former Lockhart will be an empty park.

 

Oh, and here's what we could have had instead of No-Hart Stadium: https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=http://magiccity.soccer/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Exhibit-2-–-Proposal-from-FXE-Futbol-LLC-reduced.pdf

(There was also the Schlitterbahn deal that was abandoned before, but lol, that idea was a bit shit really, the only reason Strikers supporters liked it was they'd pay for future improvements)

[Rich]

32 minutes ago, OctoberRaven said:

-The former Lockhart grounds aren't a permanent stadium or training ground. It's a temporary stadium, built to be taken down the instant Beckham gets a Miami field (if he ever gets one). The training ground is actually being built at what was Fort Lauderdale Baseball stadium, just to the north, which was condemned anyway. The temporary stadium, when discarded, will be replaced with fuck all, but Beckham will still have the rights to it out of spite.

Apart from being the permanent home of the Fort Lauderdale CF, it isn't a temporary stadium, it is a temprorary home for Inter Miami and will then continue to the be home for Fort Lauderdale.

34 minutes ago, OctoberRaven said:

-Beckham's group wasn't the only people interested in Lockhart. There was a competing bid who had detailed, long-term, permanent plans two years in the making to renovate Lockhart into grounds for a new professional team and potentially youth programs.

The new stadium which has replaced the Lockhart ground is now the fulltime home for Fort Lauderdale CF.  The plans for the area include the training and Youth Academy facilities for Inter Miami and Fort Lauderdale CF, so not even potential youth programs, actual youth programs that are definitely happening.

36 minutes ago, OctoberRaven said:

-It didn't need to be demolished. Beckham gave a bunk story about asbestos but despite multiple renewal projects, asbestos was never found in condemnable amounts in the stadium, nor was such amounts of it found in the demolition. In short, Beckham committed fraud to get his way.

How is this fraud?  Fair enough he claim something which is incorrect, but Inter Miami have knocked down a 60 year old stadium and built a brand new, fit for purpose one.

37 minutes ago, OctoberRaven said:

-Speaking of Yankee Stadium, collectors wanted memorabilia from it before it was demolished, including noted Yankee person George Steinbrenner. Beckham didn't honor anyone's request, for no reason other than being a petty prick.

Fair that sounds weird and unfair, but I don't really know what people were expecting.

38 minutes ago, OctoberRaven said:

-The deal behind Beckham's bid had a lot of shady dealings going around, such as public discussion of the vote happening after a closed door session of the vote, among other things. Beckham also started demolition during a pending lawsuit against him and the city of Ft Lauderdale over these shady goings.

The lawsuits were, typically, from the competing bidders who claimed due process was not followed and were not treated fairly.  I would assume that most bidders would have felt this way, and ultimately the municipality decided that the Inter Miami bid was favorable, which is how due process works, even if you don't like it.

In terms of the shady goings on, the Inter Miami deal looks like it was carried out quickly, which I grant you does look unusual, but it followed Florida law and statute in terms of being given at least the minimum time frames set our by Florida law.

44 minutes ago, OctoberRaven said:

-MLS has never wanted to be in Ft Lauderdale (in fact, they specifically told Beckham he couldn't be in Ft Lauderdale, but changed their tune later because Beckham is such a dimwit he couldn't get it done in Miami, see below), and the people of Ft Lauderdale (not the crooked council) never cared for MLS' attitude towards the city and of grassroots footy. They weren't wanted in any form, but another Miami team that didn't want to be here in the first place was the worst part of it.

Not saying MLS changed their mind, but maybe they chose the path of least resistance to get what they wanted, realising that there was not an easy path to get a full on Miami approach they wanted.  Businesses and organisations change their plans all the time to accomodate what is actually acheivable vs what they actually desire and is a pipe dream.

I will not comment on the crooked council, as that is part of the democracy of the area, and is a whole can of something else.

 

46 minutes ago, OctoberRaven said:

-There was no reason to be there in the first place. There's a stadium that's easily used as a temporary grounds in the Miami area already. It's called Joe Robbie Stadium and the fact that it was never even considered is proof that Beckham does not give a fuck about Miami or Ft Lauderdale.

@damsher hatfield has already covered the Hard Rock Stadium angle a lot, but also, how do you know it was not even considered?  Were you party to all the conversations and dealings had between Inter Miami and the Miami Dolphin organisation?  Pure conjecture. 

[OctoberRaven]

As addressed above, it's not the permanent grounds for Inter Ft Lauderdale. It's a modular stadium, the kind used for temporary space for Olympic events, designed to be discarded the moment it's no longer used.

Also, the lawsuit I mentioned was, admittedly, thrown out, but for a peculiar reason: The courts decided that the FXE bid was unsolicited and thus invalid, which is an odd thing to say when A) The other bid was also unsolicited and B) The city council accepted the bid as valid, that's why they voted on it.

FXE Group didn't appeal, but that's because the entire point of their bid was getting Lockhart Stadium and Lockhart Stadium doesn't exist anymore. AFAIK they're working on a new plan, but it'll likely take some time.

Also 48 hours after this thread was renamed, the board crash. QED, Beckham is the Antichrist.

[LL!]

8 minutes ago, OctoberRaven said:

 

Also 48 hours after this thread was renamed, the board crash. QED, Beckham is the Antichrist.

He did it because you're blaspheming his name. Please only say nice things about our beautiful and just god. 

[OctoberRaven]

At any point, none of you are going to be able to change my mind on this, and as much as I try to explain why myself and others (admittedly mostly former Strikers supporters, but also Tampa Bay Rowdies supporters have been in solidarity, as well as other cities whose grassroots supporters explicitly do not want MLS in their backyards are of the same general sentiment) never wanted anything to do with Beckham or MLS in Ft Lauderdale, it doesn't seem like you guys want to understand where I'm coming from.

I've lost all respect for Beckham, you all have known this, and it sometimes feels like things like changing the thread name are just to get at me.

[OctoberRaven]

26 minutes ago, LL. said:

Please only say nice things

He's okay as a set piece guy. Happy?

[gunnar hendershow]

I understand your gripes about the way MLS is basically pushing out what had been grassroot supporters in a number of cities. It's a strange dynamic because these smaller clubs sprouted up largely around the same time as MLS. But in markets that didn't have MLS teams that were part of the original batch of teams and missed out on the first wave of expansion. A lot of them starting with the second wave basically got themselves promoted (Seattle, Portland, Montreal, Orlando City) and now you've got Austin, Sacramento, and Cincinnati basically coming up from the USL ranks.

MLS doesn't want competition, it wants smaller teams in smaller markets but to directly serve its needs. Its needs being growing the game's popularity in the US and Canada, thus bringing in more money. They want state-of-the-art training facilities to help improve the national sides of both nations (with a trickle-down effect into Latin America and the Caribbean). All of this is to help get more eyes on soccer and thus the MLS.

I could go into a ton of complaints about the fallacy of doing this in a top-down approach and stonewalling any other efforts to grow the game through their independent leagues. USL is still partially independent, but that's running on borrowed time for the most part. And it is a shame that grassroots soccer in the US, which really sprouted up in the 2000s, was basically deemed a threat by the MLS and they're trying to kill off what they can and absorb/control everything else.

But it's par for the course in American sports leagues. When baseball exploded in popularity in the late 1800s and then especially in the 1900s there were plenty of cities wanting to get in on the act. And over time the minor league system got established. Basketball and hockey? Same thing. American football is an exception but there are unique factors to that sport which make operating it in an independent market near impossible.

So, yes, it does suck for Ft. Lauderdale Strikers supporters. And it might inevitably suck for Tampa Bay Rowdies or Phoenix Rising supporters depending on whenever MLS decides on expanding past 30. But this isn't some unique, one-of-a-kind situation so a lot of your complaints have very much felt like a "so what?" to me.

This is just how pro sports have decided to operate in the US and Canada for well over a century. The dynamic is typical that a "smaller, local" team is found in high school or college or in a minor league system but all are under the umbrella of a regional professional team with defined "territorial rights".

Without this large money being paid to create territorial rights, etc. teams wouldn't be able to afford youth facilities, wages, transfers, etc. The quality of play in MLS is better for it and the quality of American and Canadian players is rapidly improving because of it. Two players who came out of MLS academies both played rather large roles in their teams' runs in the Champions League. That would have been largely unthinkable a decade ago.