Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children

[TheArsenal]

Zack was dead before Aeris and Cloud found him in the pipe in Sector 5, so it couldn't have been him. Also, would Cloud not have recognised him after travelling with him for so long? Also, since Zack and Aeris were boyfriend and girlfriend for a time, would she not have also recognised him?

Lastly, neither Zack or Cloud were given numbered tatoos, which is backed up in the game script.

[thumbers]

Zack was dead before Aeris and Cloud found him in the pipe in Sector 5, so it couldn't have been him. Also, would Cloud not have recognised him after travelling with him for so long? Also, since Zack and Aeris were boyfriend and girlfriend for a time, would she not have also recognised him?

Lastly, neither Zack or Cloud were given numbered tatoos, which is backed up in the game script.

After going back to the Shinra Mansion and viewing the cutscene with the truck, then go back to the room with the desks. There are four reports scattered throughout the room.

Escapee Report No. 1

X Month, X Day

The two escapees were located near Midgar.

Escapee Report No. 2

Description of the time of capture

A    Former Member of SOLDIER/Number ( )

No effect could be detected from either Mako Radiation Therapy or Jenova on him.

B    Regular/Number ( )

Reaction to Jenova detected.

Escapee Report No. 3

Concerning their disposal

A    Shot for resisting.

B    Escaped during A's resistance.

Escapee Report No. 4

Other

B's whereabouts is currently unknown.  But, we submit that there is no need to persue him, due to his diminishing consciousness.  Awaiting further instructions.

In those reports, A is Zack and B is Cloud. Those reports say that both Zack and Cloud were injected with both Jenova and Mako, but on the journey only Cloud showed the symptoms of Jenova. Also, if you notice, the man in the pipe does the same things that Cloud did in the back of the truck and in the hospital in Mideel. The first time in Sector 5, Aeris says "This guy are sick. He passed out nearby and someone must have helped him here." We all know that Zack was shot on that hill overlooking Midgar, and we know the only way to enter Midgar on foot is through the Sector 5 gate.

Cloud would not recognize Zack because, if I remember correctly, Cloud didn't remember his own name until Tifa told him his. Aeris wouldn't recognize Zack because the Mako changed him. Remember during the Kalm story, there was a monsters in the reactor. They were exposed to a high amount of Mako, and Zack was exposed to the Mako as well. Aeris could not recognize Zack because of the Mako. After escaping from the Mansion, then this is my guess of Zack's life:

-Ride to Midgar with Cloud

-Get shot down on a hill overlooking Midgar.

-Get helped to Sector 5 by a nice person.

-During game Disc 3, go off to the reunion.

[TheArsenal]

You just illustrated my point. The numbers 2 and 3 are merely Escapee Report Numbers. Look at Number 1 and Number 4, they have nothing to do with clones.

IN FACT, Cloud and Zack are referred to as A and B because they have no number.

A    Former Member of SOLDIER/Number ( )

B    Regular/Number ( )

Look in the brackets.......there is no number for either of the two men! Since Zack wasn't given a tatoo, the man in the pipe couldn't have been him. Also, he was gunned down at point blank range by several guards. There was no way for him to survive. Although Zack was near Midgar, at that time of the game, many of the clones would have been called that way, before being called to the Northern Crater.

Edited June 1, 2004 by TheArsenal

[Kaney]

Remember, Lucrecia said the Jenova in her wouldn't allow her to die. Zach and Cloud were both injected with Jenova, which could indicate how he survived.

[botchedpiledriver]

I've started FF7 all over again because of you lot talking about it. I've just reached Cosmo Canyon... for about the 20th time in my life.

[TheArsenal]

Remember, Lucrecia said the Jenova in her wouldn't allow her to die.  Zach and Cloud were both injected with Jenova, which could indicate how he survived.

←

But Hojo died.....and so did Sephiroth.

And in fact, Lucretia did die after Vincent told her Sephhiroth was dead in Disc 2, which is why she isn't there anymore if you go back in Disc 3.

And bro, Jenova cells may prolong life, but as far as saving you from maybe upto 100 bullets atpoint blank range? No way.

Edited June 1, 2004 by TheArsenal

[thumbers]

Look in the brackets.......there is no number for either of the two men! Since Zack wasn't given a tatoo, the man in the pipe couldn't have been him. Also, he was gunned down at point blank range by several guards. There was no way for him to survive. Although Zack was near Midgar, at that time of the game, many of the clones would have been called that way, before being called to the Northern Crater.

From what I have understood from the game, then the original Sephiroth (the one that Cloud killed in Nibelheim reactor) is the original Sephiroth. Hojo created him by injecting Jenova and Mako into Lucrecia's womb, creating Sephiroth. After Sephiroth burned down Nibelheim (sp?), then there were at least fifteen survivors: Cloud, Zack, Tifa, Zangan, and at least eleven other townspeople. Zangan goes to the reactor and gets Tifa to take her to Midgar for some medical treatment. After Shinra restores the town back to normal, Hojo begins the experiments on the townspeople. He creates one really successful Sephiroth clone (one of the townspeople I assume), who gets the tattoo #1. He then turns his attention to Cloud and Zack. He injects Zack with Mako and Jenova, as well as Cloud. Cloud was reacting to the treatment as if he didn't know anything, with the unghhhh...... or something similar to that. Zack was reacting as if nothing had happened, like the man with the #1 tattoo, so that is why I am assuming that Zack got tattoo #2. Cloud never recieved one because he reacted so badly to the injections.

Also, Lucrecia says that she wanted to die and to disappear. Do you think that after 30 years of trying to kill herself, injected with both Mako and Jenova, that all of a sudden, a SOLDIER 1st Class, who was also injected heavily, would die so quickly and easily?

I am just saying that the clues add up. Cloud was all set to become #3, but was considered a failure because of his response to the injections. Hojo wanted to work on the people who survived the Nibelheim fire, because he felt that they wouldn't be missed. He got the the man with the #1 tattoo, and made a darned good clone of Sephiroth, and gave Zack a number because of his response to the treatment, but before Hojo could do anything else to Zack, Zack and Cloud escaped. The soldiers shot and left Zack outside of Midgar because they didn't know of these experiments and only knew of the fact that those two were wanted. They left Cloud because they assumed he was either dead or on the brink of dying. Cloud took Zack's sword and went to Midgar where he met up with Tifa again. Some passer-by found Zack alive, but showing symptoms of the Mako,on the ground and brought him into Sector 5.

[Kaney]

But Hojo died.....and so did Sephiroth.

And in fact, Lucretia did die after Vincent told her Sephhiroth was dead in Disc 2, which is why she isn't there anymore if you go back in Disc 3.

And bro, Jenova cells may prolong life, but as far as saving you from maybe upto 100 bullets atpoint blank range? No way.

←

You can't really say stuff like 'He got shot with a 100 bullets, he must be dead', because the game is inconsistent. One moment it'll show you someone getting mowed down under gunfire, the next it'll show you a battle with someone who gets shot, slashed, burned, punched whatever, and still not die, due to having 'high HP'. Hojo died after Cloud and the team hacked away his 30,000 HP, so could he survive a measly 100 bullets? Probably. Just because Lucrecia isn't there doesn't mean she died. She could have simply moved on. What I'm trying to say is, if Jenova can power someone so much that they require arguabley the most devastating offense in the game (Sephiroth and Omnislash) then I'm sure it would have no problem with a couple of bullets.

[TheArsenal]

thumbers.......the escape reports posted by yourself show that the soldiers knew who they were and were actually hunting them down. What you wrote in your last post does make sense, but it's all assumption, as you say, you assume that Zack got the number two, but there's nothing to say that one of the other survivors recieved it, otherwise the Number would have been included in the Escapee Report.

Kaneanite - good points, but he was "disposed of" according to the game. Yes, he probably had a high HP, but did you really expect the game to find someone who could perform Omnislash just for the purpose of that scene? I think it's pretty clear they wanted to show that he was no longer an issue.

Remember he showed NO reaction to the Mako or Jenova injections, so then why would a bullet suddenly mean that he reacts in such a violent way to something that had no efect on him before?

And many people feel Lucrecia died at that point in the game. She hated herself for not being a real mother to Sephiroth and the thought of his ongoing suffering was causing the Jenova cells in her to prolong her life, but upon finding out he was dead (albeit a lie), she was finally able to let herslef die and find her peace.

[Kaney]

I dunno, I'm just voicing my opinions. I personally hope it isn't Zach, I feel it would take away from Cloud. Remember how cool Cloud was when he thought he was in SOLDIER? Then how he thought he was rubbish when he remembered about Zach? I think AC should be about Cloud moving on, not about keeping him in Zach's shadow. Either way, I really can't wait for it to be released so I know whats what.

[Robsturgh]

I personally think they should swerve us all and have Cait Sith in the chair. Without no legs though, hence the wheelchair.

[thumbers]

I understand what you are saying Arsenal, and I am just saying what I believe happened in the game. If you look at Report 3, then you will see that the Shinra people are lazy tards. It says that Cloud escaped while Zack was resisting and Cloud was just laying on the ground. Yes, while there is nothing in the games that makes it clear that Zack got the number 2, the events that happened point to Zack getting number 2.

-He was one of the first people to get experimented on

-He, like Sephiroth himself, showed no effects of the Mako or Jenova

-He was shot down outside of Midgar.

-Then, there happens to be a person in a tunnel with a tattoo that shows the effects of Jenova and Mako poisioning.

According to my theory: You said that Zack showed no effects of the Mako before he was shot. Cloud himself showed all the effects of Mako until he Tifa recognized him and his brain was put into its reckless state.

Oh, and the reason I feel that the other survivors didn't put their number in the escapee report was because they didn't escape from Nibelheim and stayed within the town, with the Black Cloaks, which brings up another question: If the tattooed men are all wearing Black Cloaks, then why doesn't #2 wear a cloak?

Also, Square is a genious for making a game like this. About seven years after its release, people still don't understand the story completely.

[DMN in the House]

Just a note, but the April issue of GMR (I know this is kinda old ) has shots of it as well. Most have been posted though.

[TheArsenal]

But still Mr thumbers, why does "Zack" suddenly react so violently to the Mako radiation after being shot?

[thumbers]

But still Mr thumbers, why does "Zack" suddenly react so violently to the Mako radiation after being shot?

What I think happened was that all the other people who were turned into clones were weak people. The Mako had a instant effect on them, with Cloud being one of the weak ones. Zack managed to resist until the shooting, which I believe weakened him up enough for the Mako to take effect on him.

[TheArsenal]

I don't really agree with that....but this is the Final Fantasy VII storyline. I think it was written so people wouldn't agree!!

[botchedpiledriver]

Sorry to end this nice litttle arguement, BUT, can you help me out...

How the fuck do I get Vincent, and where is he in the Shinra Basement? There's fuck all there, I just looked around the mansion for about an hour.

[TheArsenal]

Sorry to end this nice litttle arguement, BUT, can you help me out...

How the fuck do I get Vincent, and where is he in the Shinra Basement? There's fuck all there, I just looked around the mansion for about an hour.

←

Not really an argument....as no-one is bothered....it's just a great game to debate about.

As for Vincent, go down the spiral staircase so you're in the corridor (before the library). Imagine you are going to the library (left to right) about half way along in the top wall is a doorway...it's not esy to see IIRC so keep leaning againstthat wall as you run.

[botchedpiledriver]

Not really an argument....as no-one is bothered....it's just a great game to debate about.

As for Vincent, go down the spiral staircase so you're in the corridor (before the library). Imagine you are going to the library (left to right) about half way along in the top wall is a doorway...it's not esy to see IIRC so keep leaning againstthat wall as you run.

←

Thanks a lot. I'll go try it now.

[Kaney]

Sorry Botched, but theres some other stuff you got to do first. So it's not spoiled for anyone else, heres the exact solution.

You have to go the upper left part of the mansion first, to a room with a safe in it.  If you can't open it, you need to wait till you come back later in the game.  If you can open it, use this combination : Right = 36, Left = 10, Right = 59, Left = 97.  Once open you have to fight a boss, who has 7000HP.  You really should wait till the second disk, but whatever.  Beat him and you get Red XIII's Fourth Level Limit Break (Cosmo Memory), and the Odin summon materia.  I think there may be a key, not too sure.  Anyway, head to to the basement, but enter the door on the right of the screen, you can't really miss it.  Open the coffin in the middle, and talk to Vincent.  Speak about Sephiroth, then leave for the library.  When you walk past Vincents door, he will join your party.  Again, you'd better leave it till disc two, cos he joins at the same level as your party.  If your only in the twenty's, thats what he'll be at.

Ah, Vincent. Vincent is the best playable character in the game, in my opinion after Cloud. Enjoy.

Edit : oops. That was supposed to be whitede out.

Edited June 2, 2004 by Kaneanite