The Survivor Thread

[bill_da_bill]

Finishing up Marquesas right now...

Do I bother to watch season 5? I've never heard many good things about it, but at some point I'd like to see them all.

[GoGo Yubari]

I guess it depends on watching stuff in order vs. watching with actual season quality as a factor. The only person on that season who comes back for anything is Shii-Ann so it's not like required viewing or anything.

[The Quasi Juice]

The edit was shit. Let's be honest here: people will only really have the chance to show their game play once. All Star seasons aren't "true seasons" of Survivor. Survivor is X amount of strangers on an island who have to systematically vote each other out for a million dollars. All Star seasons are unfair because not only do you personally know some of the people who you've played with, but you've watched a great deal of the people playing. Rob C, Tina, Richard Hatch, Ethan were all sitting ducks in All Stars. They played to hard and to smart the time before to not be voted out by their peers. That's probably also why the final 3 weren't really All Stars and no one would have predicted they make it that far and why the first few votes saw the biggest characters and winners go.

EDIT: But than Richard Hatch wouldn't have been as amazing as he was in All Stars. His "I don't care, go fuck yourself" attitude was one of the best characters to emerge in Survivor.

I guess Russell is the exception to this because nobody knew who he was when HvV started. Boston Rob and Parvati have also successfully been able to show their gameplay twice.

Ethan was pretty cool in All Stars. People wanted him out because he's such a likable guy and former winner but just by showing how awesome he was in challenges he survived a few votes. Funny how in All Stars the former winners were targeted, in HvV they came far. It actually makes sense to keep them around.

Edited May 8, 2011 by The Quasi Juice

[GoGo Yubari]

Final bit of "lol, Heidi;" her jury question where she tried to get Jenna to say her name with the "who should be in the final two other than yourself" question, and then she answered Rob instead. I loved her being dumbfounded and trying to ask for another name and Probst shutting her down.

Now on episode five of Pearl Islands, and this season is pretty great thusfar. Very well-defined characters (except for Trish, who is completely nondescript), especially the obvious mentions of both Rupert and Jonny Fairplay. Osten is also hilarious in just how pathetic he is, particularly his perplexing rage at that pelican.

[GoGo Yubari]

Aaand Osten has now quit. Outcast Tribe swerve was pretty rad, and Probst's absolute contempt for Osten in that TC was great. He doesn't even get a "the tribe has spoken," just "go home."

I also loved that the first time Fairplay broke from making wrestling references during his vote at Tribal Council, he just said "Fuck you." Tremendous.

[bill_da_bill]

Aaand Osten has now quit. Outcast Tribe swerve was pretty rad, and Probst's absolute contempt for Osten in that TC was great. He doesn't even get a "the tribe has spoken," just "go home."

I also loved that the first time Fairplay broke from making wrestling references during his vote at Tribal Council, he just said "Fuck you." Tremendous.

See RPS, I'm not the only one who liked the Outcast Tribe swerve! The further I went into the season the less I liked the Outcast swerve, but initially I loved it. and still kinda do.

Yeah Osten in general was entertaining to watch and easy to dislike.

Pearl Islands was just a fantastic cast of characters.

[GoGo Yubari]

I like it a lot. Not precisely the two I wanted back in (Ryan S. over on Drake would have been fun, though I just got to where they drew buffs and ended up on their old tribes which was lame), but I was dreading someone like Nicole or Trish coming back and they didn't.

Plus unlike Redemption Island, the people coming back will actually have to play the game again rather than just win challenges.

[GoGo Yubari]

Finished episode nine. Best part was the entire montage of everyone plotting against Rupert (Fairplay! Burton! Sandra! Lillian! Christa! Not Tijuana and Darrah because they do not do anything of consequence whatsoever in this game!) and the proceeding to all but hand over immunity to him in the next challenge. It's like a medieval fantasy thing where everyone wants the king dead but nobody has worked up the courage to actually try to poison or stab the guy or anything like that.

[GoGo Yubari]

So I had always thought the final three of this season of Survivor came down to Sandra winning the endurance challenge and deciding that she hated Fairplay too much to even give him the $100,000.

Instead, it came down to Lillian winning and stupidly thinking she would have a better chance of beating Sandra than Fairplay. Wow and damn.

EDIT: Holy crap, she's already completely deep-sixed herself two thirds of the way through her opening statement. She probably could have still beaten Fairplay but wow.

[GoGo Yubari]

OKAY. Season finished, seen the list of people in All-Stars now. Couple of "wait, really?" inclusions in there (obviously Amber and I know what happens there, Kathy, Alicia, Season 1 Jenna, I'm assuming Shii-Ann was there because they needed someone from Thailand and they really did kind of fuck her over with the twist).

So, here's... I guess it's a challenge? A thing to do. Come up with your own list of eighteen players from the first seven Survivors as an alternate All-Stars lineup. One rule is just like how the producers included players from every season (i.e. admit that Thailand exists), you too have to include players from each season whether you like it or not. (If you haven't seen every season in that group, though, you're excused.) Mine's behind the cut.

Men:

1. Jonny Fairplay (Pearl Islands) (Because he's arguably the best villain from the first seven seasons, and the three you could argue were better than him (Boston Rob, Rob C., Richard Hatch) were in that season. I read about what happened in Micronesia and that's more than a little disappointing, but this would have been pre-Michelle.)

2. Brian Heidik (Thailand) (Because as loathsome as he was, you have to admit he played a flawless game of Survivor, and since everyone knows what he's about the second time around you'd get the satisfaction of seeing him get voted out.)

3. Michael Skupin (The Outback) (Went out of Survivor due to awful misfortune, and was a great character before the fire happened.)

4. Sean Rector (Marquesas) (Deserves more credit as a player for what he did in Marquesas after Rob went out, and was a fantastic TV character because he's both funny and incredibly short-tempered.)

5. Matthew von Ertfelda (Amazon) (Loved Matt. Kind of eccentric but a strong competitor and a good guy. As far as I'm concerned he should have won in the Final Jury.)

6. Greg Buis (Borneo) (Because he was hilarious and spent most of his time making fun of reality show tropes. Imagine what he could do with seven seasons of Survivor to mock!)

7. Clarence Black (Africa) (I need a guy from Africa, and All-Stars took the three best ones. Frank would have been a fun choice but I need to skew towards youth a little, and like hell would I bring Silas or Brandon back.)

8. Ken Stafford (Thailand) (Seemed like a good guy stuck on a shitty season. Tempting to bring back Robb to see if his little epiphany actually did change anything about him, but I've got my asshole quotient filled already.)

9. Paschal English (Marquesas) (Shii-Ann came back because she was screwed by an awful twist, so Paschal deserves one too. Plus I need an old guy. All-Stars took the two best in Big Tom and Rudy, so I'll go with Pappy.)

(Honorable Mentions: Burton from Pearl Islands, but he's already had two chances by this point. Gervase from Borneo, but Greg and Sean were better comic relief. Jake from Thailand except good god did I not want three guys from Thailand. The General from Marquesas, loved him but I'd want Ken in as the big New York guy more because I really, really feel sorry for Ken.)

Women:

1. Sandra Diaz-Twine (Pearl Islands) (Apparently she comes back for HvV on the Villains tribe? What the fuck? How was she even a villain? Were they hurting for female villains or something? One of the more deserving Survivor winners.)

2. Colleen Haskell (Borneo) (Of course, there's a reason she wasn't in All-Stars, because she declined. But I'm not taking that into account, dammit! Jaded, bitter Colleen from her last couple episodes was awesome. I want more of that, unless starring in a Rob Schneider movie really changed her.)

3. Kelly Wiglesworth (Borneo) (How the fuck did Jenna Lewis come back and Kelly didn't? What? Underrated player, only member of the Tagi Alliance not to return in All-Stars.)

4. Deena Bennett (Amazon) (Strong player who got outwitted by an even stronger one/overplayed her hand. She would have been interesting to see with a second shot.)

5. Teresa Cooper (Africa) (Good grasp of strategy, good approach to playing, I think she could have really good odds of winning if she didn't end up on the wrong end of an alliance.)

6. Elisabeth Filarski/Hasselbeck (Outback) (I need a girl from Outback and also mostly because she's famous and because I need a couple younger players. Most of the younger women on the first seven seasons of Survivor really weren't that interesting, and the ones that were were generally put in actual All-Stars.)

7. Vecepia Towry (Marquesas) (Fuck it, let's load up on all the winners who weren't in All-Stars. Plus you need the token minority girl. All-Stars took Alicia, and I can't take a third woman from Borneo so Ramona is out.)

8. Tammy Leitner (Marquesas) (Because she was a badass. I loved her actually training for the stilt challenge hardcore and winning Immunity just because she was the one willing to work her ass off for it.)

9. Helen Glover (Thailand) (I... guess I should have a woman from Thailand. And I kind of liked Helen except for the part where she was completely spineless and bitter over being spineless.)

(Honorable Mentions: Gretchen from Borneo was originally in, then I realized that Kelly wasn't invited back. Kelly from Africa might have been fun but I'd want T-Bird back more and didn't really see a spot to put her in. I briefly considered Christy from Amazon and Christa from Pearl Islands. The former wouldn't really bring anything new to game dynamics a second time around, the latter didn't really have a niche they fell into well enough. I considered Heidi from Amazon because at least she had an incredibly well-defined character, but she'd just end up staying in forever again and I'd want to pull my hair out.)

[bill_da_bill]

I like that idea, but I think I might wait until I have gone through seasons 5 & 6 to offer a list. I already skipped ahead to Pearl Islands cause I had heard so many good things.

I'm only a few episodes into Thailand, but I actually kinda like the cast. Like I said, I'm not far in, but the dynamics seem to be there for a decent season at least.

[GoGo Yubari]

Wait until post-merge. It gets ugly. It's like the Ghandia drama except without the uncomfortable cultural undertones and with more utter dreariness.

EDIT: Halfway through first episode of All-Stars. I am loving this. Both for the minor glimpses into the culture of these returning players (Rupert noting that everyone else knows each other and he's the new guy, Shii-Ann and Lex discussing how Hatch is perceived), and for "hey, here's all of these fucking crazy people, remember how eccentric they are?" Hatch fucking around and refusing to do anything is amazing. Sue Hawk is also apparently doing the same thing. Man, they just wanted a vacation or something.

EDIT II: Ahahahahahahaha.

Sue: "I drank (the water from the well that you're supposed to boil)."

Probst: "Navy Seal, is that wise?"

Rudy: "Yeah."

Probst: "So is it wise because it's the other tribe?"

Rudy: "Yeah."

Oh, the ridiculously eccentric members of the Tagi alliance (i.e. all of them except Kelly). I missed them so much.

[GoGo Yubari]

Just finished episode... I think 8. The Colby vs. Jerri II one. I think what's most interesting is seeing what kind of edits certain players get their second time around. Both Colby and Rupert are portrayed much, much differently their second time, while at the same time recognizably being the same people; the former was always a more strategic player than some people thought but this time that's a lot more blatantly clear. His argument with/lecture to Shii-Ann about the way she played was also just incredibly shortsighted of him and I was amused at how it ended up completely biting him in the ass in a matter of days. As for Rupert, it's not so much a matter of "Rupert Boneham, Control Freak" not having been present in Pearl Islands so much as this time around he's actually getting stuff wrong other than "don't trust Jonny Fairplay." Failing the house-building and raft challenges were totally on him.

I actually really really like the dynamic of all the returning players and their familiarity. It does lead to some really unfortunate eliminations because of past success/reputation; Rob C. was totally fucked over by ending up on the same tribe as Boston Rob. There could only be one mastermind in that tribe, and unfortunately for Rob C. he didn't realize it (to be honest, I'm disappointed he didn't seem to realize what a problem Boston Rob was going to be seeing as he was pulling the exact same opening gambit he did in Marquesas). Richard Hatch was too; it would be totally insane to vote him out early on any criterion other than him being Richard Hatch as he was both the provider and a surprisingly strong challenge player. But Hatch's game was great; he knew he had the target on his back and acted accordingly the whole way through. Pity about the tax fraud, I wish he could have come back for Heroes vs. Villains. Also unfortunate is what happened to Sue Hawk, because she was just as great a TV character the second time around as she was the first.

[Blehschmidt]

I am gonna have to go and dig out my All Stars DVD after Redemption Island ends this weekend. That Rudy quote you posted has totally put me in the mood to watch that season again!

[RPS]

For shits and giggles, decided to rank the winners. I'll put them in quotes, in case anyone doesn't want any of the seasons spoiled. I considered if people played before, but didn't consider their past performances.

1. Richard Hatch

2. Parvati

3. Todd

4. Rob M

5. Tina

6. JT

7. Sandra PI

8. Vecepia

9. Earl

10. Brian

11. Tom

12. Jenna

13. Chris

14. Sandra H/V

15. Aras

16. Yul

17. Fabio

18. Danielle

19. Ethan

20. Natalie

21. Amber

22. Bob

Edited May 16, 2011 by RockPaperScissors

[GoGo Yubari]

Up to episode 12 on All-Stars which I'm pretty sure is the "Shii-Ann is pretty much fucked" episode, and I had to grin when she actually used the term "Pagonging" on the show. I love the players who are pretty clearly huge fans of the show in general, even if Shii-Ann's victim complex is rearing its ugly head again. Being fair I'd probably do the same thing if I were her.

It's kind of hilarious how deeply bitter Jenna has become, too. I wish Shii-Ann had used "Pagonging" to her face just to see her reaction.

EDIT: Ahahahahahaha. "Stupid people. Stupid, stupid people." Oh, Shii-Ann. If you're going to capsize your chances, might as well do it in grand "fuck y'all" fashion.

[GoGo Yubari]

Aaaaaaand the person who had All-Stars uploaded on YouTube closed their account. Motherfucker. The season was starting to turn into Return of Thailand (because Boston Rob's endgame style is very similar to Brian Heidik's; develop relationships with everyone, make them feel like they have a special bond with you, cut their throats), but I was still enjoying it well enough and was super-excited for Final Jury where Rob supposedly does awful.

On to Vanuatu, I guess. I do not recognize a single name in this list of players, which is a first (closest I'd come before was Thailand, where Shii-Ann was the only name that I recognized since she came back for All-Stars).

[GoGo Yubari]

Okay, second episode of Vanuatu is fantastic. The way it progresses from Dolly being the sweet, naive farmgirl who is too nice and wishy-washy to know what alliance to stand with to everyone else in the tribe slowly but surely thinking that she's actually a secret strategic mastermind trying to play both sides against each other is hysterical. The best indication of how gameplay's evolved is how the people who can't and never will be strategic masterminds react to it or try to imitate it; you had it with would-be alliance masterminds like Silas in Africa and John in Marquesas trying to imitate Richard Hatch, and now here the women's tribe mistakenly labels Dolly as a Rob C. or Jonny Fairplay. Seriously interesting stuff, actually.

[The Quasi Juice]

Aaaaaaand the person who had All-Stars uploaded on YouTube closed their account. Motherfucker. The season was starting to turn into Return of Thailand (because Boston Rob's endgame style is very similar to Brian Heidik's; develop relationships with everyone, make them feel like they have a special bond with you, cut their throats), but I was still enjoying it well enough and was super-excited for Final Jury where Rob supposedly does awful.

On to Vanuatu, I guess. I do not recognize a single name in this list of players, which is a first (closest I'd come before was Thailand, where Shii-Ann was the only name that I recognized since she came back for All-Stars).

I'm positive the entire final tribal council is on YouTube, or at least the best parts. Rob doesn't really do horrible, he just gets blamed for pretty much ruining their lives. Man that jury was damn bitter. "Don't be stupid, stupid" is epic. That season could have been way more entertaining with Hatch making it to the merge and Rob C not sucking. Rupert getting a slightly negative edit was hilarious though, the same happened when he played HvV. I wonder why he's still so popular.

Edited May 19, 2011 by The Quasi Juice

[GoGo Yubari]

Oh, awesome, I found another person who'd uploaded it. Totally going to skim through the rest of it because I'm not sure if I really care to watch the inevitable.

As for Rob C., he didn't really suck. He got a shitty edit (literally the only times he got any attention were when he was reading the map wrong, getting fucked over by Boston Rob, or I guess not having good work ethic on a challenge where he clearly had jack shit given to do), landed on a shitty tribe for him, and made one stupid error that he wasn't the first player to make and certainly wouldn't be the last.

As for the bitter Final Tribal Council, I think I'm coming to the conclusion that if you play the style that Boston Rob (and Brian Heidik, who I've realized really is Rob without any of the charm) does you're pretty much going to inevitably get them. Though any Tribal Council with Lex and Jenna Lewis is going to be deeply miserable anyway.