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I was going to say... Finale hasn't happened so who know about those last two. 

Evan Peters' stunt casting was obvious from the start. Really wishful thinking from fans... the multiverse thing is happening, it's the name of the next Dr. Strange movie... but I think the Fox Films are going to stay separate from the MCU. No cross overs. 

Which imo is fine. I enjoy the X-Men movies for what they are but I'm looking forward to seeing what the MCU does with these characters and their world, and how they relate to the one they've created. 

 

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14 hours ago, Jimmy said:
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This is exactly why I'd like to see her as a big bad.

 

Yeah, they tried to give Thanos some pathos with that scene of him sitting quietly after murderizing half the galaxy but it just came off as funny because his motivations were so asinine and meaningless. It would be nice to see a more complex villain in the MCU, whether that's where this is going or not.

Finally started the series earlier this week and got caught up today.

Spoiler

Overall its pretty good, but I miss the sitcom pastiches and self-contained nature of the early episodes. The bigger picture plot stuff is kinda just there.

I also just completely missed the Quicksilver bit, not even realizing it wasn't the actor who played him in the MCU until multiple people pointed out he'd been recast.

 

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9 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

Yeah, they tried to give Thanos some pathos with that scene of him sitting quietly after murderizing half the galaxy but it just came off as funny because his motivations were so asinine and meaningless. It would be nice to see a more complex villain in the MCU, whether that's where this is going or not.

Finally started the series earlier this week and got caught up today.

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I think Thanos as a whole couldn't ever have humanized in any sort of way, since "Wants to arbitrarily genocide half the galaxy's population" doesn't leave much in the way of subtlety whatsoever.

But they could've given him a little bit more reason than the inane "My planet got decimated due to overpopulation, so I need to decimate every other planet in the galaxy to prevent them from being decimated." reason they went with in the end.

But again, Thanos -for all their half-assed attempts at humanizing- was never remotely a morally righteous person. And just him shedding a tear over chucking one daughter off a cliff doesn't really mix well with the fact that he decided to mercilessly torture the other daughter.

 

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1 hour ago, Jasonmufc said:

But they could've given him a little bit more reason than the inane "My planet got decimated due to overpopulation, so I need to decimate every other planet in the galaxy to prevent them from being decimated." reason they went with in the end.

Not sure what other alternatives there could have been though, other than the whole courting Death angle and that would have been far too bonkers for the MCU, at the time anyway. 

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This might have been a little too much for me. I can't really read Marvel comics, because the constant retcons and contradicting lore, plus the matter-of-fact "superpowers and magic are just everywhere, deal with it" setting doesn't really work for me. 

Spoiler

This "Scarlet Witch" reveal specifically reminds me of a bit in Spider-Man comics where it turned out the spider that bit him didn't give him powers because it was radioactive, it was a magic spider that gave him powers because he's the latest in a long line of "spider totems" or some such bullshit. I always liked the Infinity Stones as the main catalyst for superpowers in the MCU, and I think this retcon cheapens Wanda's backstory a little bit.

The MCU was built up so carefully for a long time, and I think it's in danger of disappearing up its own ass.

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I disagree with that assessment. 
 

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I don't think it's a retcon... it's always been part of the story that they were the only two to survive the experiments... now we have a better idea why. They are superpowered, in a way (and even that was left up in the air... are they superpowered naturally or were they chosen BY the Infinity Stones / Universe to be these powered beings ... we now know she is The Scarlet Witch... what that means or entails is yet to be determined... 

It could just be some kind of Phoenix situation where she was chosen as the host / next in line. 

To me, it made the MCU a little more interesting... how many more Alien invasion storylines can we do? So now, if we're moving away from the Blip and Snap and slowly edging towards the arrival of Mutants and Superpowered Beings and all that jazz, it gives the Universe more depth. 

I'm not really sure how to respond to the "Superpower lore doesn't sit well with me..." because... it's the MCU. The whole thing is literally about superpowered humans. We've seen them activated via radioactive energy, science experiements gone wrong, science experiements gone right, military experiements, serums, aliens, intergalactic stones and magic.... The fact is that the superhuman lore being accepted as the norm thing has been part of the series since the start, with Captain America during WW2 and even Hulk wasn't hiding from the general public... so it is common knowledge, and has been accepted already.. 

I'm more than ready to see what the next step in that is. It seems like they're going into a "Thank You for saving the world and also fuck you freaks" story, and that could be very interesting (especially in relation to current events).

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1 hour ago, arwrestling said:

 

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I don't think it's a retcon... it's always been part of the story that they were the only two to survive the experiments... now we have a better idea why. They are superpowered, in a way (and even that was left up in the air... are they superpowered naturally or were they chosen BY the Infinity Stones / Universe to be these powered beings ... we now know she is The Scarlet Witch... what that means or entails is yet to be determined...  
 

 

Spoiler

It literally is a retcon, though. There was never any question of why the Stone gave them superpowers; the Stones just do that (see: Carol Danvers), and Ultron stated explicitly his belief that the reason they were the only two who survived Strucker's experiment is because of the trauma they'd gone through and their pure focus on what Tony Stark had done to them and will to take revenge - which to my mind has much more poetry to it then Wanda just being a mystical whosit. And I don't believe for a second that any of this was in mind when the Age of Ultron script was being written.

I didn't say anything about "superpower lore doesn't sit well with me...", I just don't vibe with how it's presented in the comics. It's fine, and I get why people like it, it's just not my speed. The MCU was for a long time very thrifty with its superpower lore and they tried to draw from a lot of the same sources and tie it together (the serums, the Stones, SHIELD). I think it's too easy and loses something if the world is just completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots.

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14 hours ago, Jasonmufc said:

I think Thanos as a whole couldn't ever have humanized in any sort of way, since "Wants to arbitrarily genocide half the galaxy's population" doesn't leave much in the way of subtlety whatsoever.

But they could've given him a little bit more reason than the inane "My planet got decimated due to overpopulation, so I need to decimate every other planet in the galaxy to prevent them from being decimated." reason they went with in the end.

But again, Thanos -for all their half-assed attempts at humanizing- was never remotely a morally righteous person. And just him shedding a tear over chucking one daughter off a cliff doesn't really mix well with the fact that he decided to mercilessly torture the other daughter.

 

I think Thanos' reason was more because the elders on Titan rejected his idea of killing half of the population so the planet could survive, and when Titan's inhabitants all eventually died or whatever, he probably built that idea up in his head even more as the solution to overpopulation in the galaxy. 

The same people who see Thanos as an anti-hero or try to humanize him are the same ones that do that shit to the Joker. I don't think Marvel was trying to justify his actions or make him more relatable to the audience or whatever, but they clearly had to flesh out his motives and character more in one movie since before Infinity War, he maybe had a total of >5 minutes on screen.

13 hours ago, JoeyJoeJoeShabadoo said:

Not sure what other alternatives there could have been though, other than the whole courting Death angle and that would have been far too bonkers for the MCU, at the time anyway. 

Hard disagree there. Up to that point in the MCU, we've already had talking raccoons, sentient trees, Dr. Strange meets Inception, etc. The only real drawback to Thanos & Death in the MCU, in my mind, was that Hela was already a thing and you'd have to explain how Hela & Death are different when audiences just saw Cate Blanchett's character refer to herself as the Goddess of Death, etc. And in a wink & a nod kind of way, already established that Thanos would be courting death to face the Avengers, and he loved that idea. Nothing up until Infinity War gave me the impression that he has a death wise, or likes a challenge (since he did have others try to get the stones for him, after all) so I'm only left with the idea that The Other meant "to challenge them is to court Death", as in the living embodiment, not the act of death.

But anyway this is the TV thread. 🤣

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37 minutes ago, tristy said:

The only real drawback to Thanos & Death in the MCU, in my mind, was that Hela was already a thing and you'd have to explain how Hela & Death are different when audiences just saw Cate Blanchett's character refer to herself as the Goddess of Death, etc.

🤣

Or they could've jsut brought Cate Blanchett back and used some dialog to establish, since Ragnarok, her purpose in the universe has now changed.  Hell, a few scenes with fat depressed Thor, learning that Ragnarok didn't really kill Hela could've been interesting

But yea, I've always taken the "to challenge them is to court Death" line as more a warning.  "Are you sure you wanna do this?  They might be able to kill you"

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15 hours ago, arwrestling said:

I'm more than ready to see what the next step in that is. It seems like they're going into a "Thank You for saving the world and also fuck you freaks" story, and that could be very interesting (especially in relation to current events).

This feels like a natural progression from where it started to where it could go. With the Sokovia accords and the plotline of Civil War it was already well established that there was a growing mistrust of heroes and their seeming overarching authority to act wherever they well pleased.

Now the galaxy has been saved by the Avengers after it got decimated, but i'm sure there will be voices out there that go "If you hadn't been there, we might not have seen Thanos", even if that logic is completely off-base because Thanos would've come regardless of what Earth had in place for defense.

On that same topic of mistrust, with Falcon & The Winter Soldier being a few weeks away from releasing, this hooks well into this situation.

Spoiler

 

With Steve being too old and hanging up his comfortable loafers, and handing the shield over to Sam Wilson. I'm fully expecting them to lean partly or even fully into the #Notmycap storyline that Marvel ran a few years back after the soft retcon. (Sam Wilson: Captain America | 2016/2017).

It would seem on point that with Sam Wilson they have a hero of colour, and with the way the world is, it wouldn't surprise me if they leant into the social problems that come with it. If not outright, then as a very obvious undercurrent.

In the one trailer I saw, you could already see that they've trotted out a replacement (white) Captain America (Probably USAgent, John Walker). So I definitely think there's going to be a clash there about whether the role of Captain America is a title that's handed over from Captain to Captain, or just the US Military's propaganda toy they can hand over to whoever is most amenable to the general populace.

 

4 hours ago, tristy said:

I think Thanos' reason was more because the elders on Titan rejected his idea of killing half of the population so the planet could survive, and when Titan's inhabitants all eventually died or whatever, he probably built that idea up in his head even more as the solution to overpopulation in the galaxy. 

The same people who see Thanos as an anti-hero or try to humanize him are the same ones that do that shit to the Joker. I don't think Marvel was trying to justify his actions or make him more relatable to the audience or whatever, but they clearly had to flesh out his motives and character more in one movie since before Infinity War, he maybe had a total of >5 minutes on screen.

That's a fair answer. I think I went completely off-base with my own reply, and I talked in/around/through my own points without a clear idea in sight. I never meant to imply that they should've made Thanos a sympathetic villain, because he was never going to be with the goals he had.

I felt that there was mostly a cognitive dissonance in them trying to portray a somewhat sympathetic person who shed a tear over his daughter, when on the one hand he tortures his other daughter and slaughters entire (or half) planets to attain his insane goals.

But I guess the whole Gamora plot point was to make clear that he was willing to let go of any lingering sentiment to finish his mission, rather than him being actually sympathetic. (although some people on the internet definitely have tried a bit too hard in making him something of a 'good guy' for looking out for the galaxy.)

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@Lint I don't buy that, the first time he died it was only because he was severely weakened due to using the Infinity Stones twice, and the second time was... also because of the Infinity Stones. Otherwise, nobody came close to killing him. It took Stark all he had to just puncture his skin on Titan, Wanda was crushing his armor, Mantis had to put him to sleep for the Guardians/Stark/Parker to even get close, Rogers & Danvers could only hold him back, etc. The Avengers weren't a threat to Thanos, especially if he's a warlord that's been doing this for decades (centuries?).

Like I said, the Death line was a wink and nod to be sure, but they could have went with that storyline if they wanted to. We've seen far more weird things in the MCU. A living planet isn't too much for audiences to handle, but Thanos killing half of the universe to impress Death is? Nahhh.

@JasonmufcI think you're right about the Gamora/Nebula stuff, and pretty much everything you just said RE my reply to you. I mean, shit, I think he was only sympathetic to Gamora while he's killing half of her planet because he wants to recruit her to become his personal assassin. What I'm about to say next is just head canon, since it hasn't been explained in the MCU to my knowledge, but I like to think that he recruited others like Glaive, Proxima, Nebula, etc. after killing half of their planets as well. Sort of like a trophy if he sees potential in the race(s) that live on a particular planet. Again, pure speculation and head canon there, but I like it.

But mainly I just want more of Carrie Coon in the MCU.

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11 minutes ago, tristy said:

@Lint I don't buy that, the first time he died it was only because he was severely weakened due to using the Infinity Stones twice

It was because Thor was cocky and wanted to brag to Thanos, rather then aim for the head...hell or even the arm!

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34 minutes ago, tristy said:

don't buy that, the first time he died it was only because he was severely weakened due to using the Infinity Stones twice, and the second time was... also because of the Infinity Stones. Otherwise, nobody came close to killing him

Further to what Lint said, Feige (or someone?) has confirmed that Wanda was fully capable and imminently about to kill Thanos in Endgame right up till he called his gunship in.

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On 01/03/2021 at 08:54, Daniel Bryan said:

Quicksilver could kill Thanos by running into him really fast confirmed. 

 

On 01/03/2021 at 09:28, Bad News Jericode said:

I mean, Quicksilver died, we don't know that he couldn't.

Quicksilver could've HELPED kill Thanos by shoving a tiny Ant-man up his butt

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Heard rumblings that WV ep 9 has mid- and post- credits scenes. Can anyone verify? 

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