Stennick

Yeah Gruden was below 500 with Tampa, he didn't really draft any outstanding players or have any success out of a super bowl with Tony's boys his first year there.

Gruden has been fired, sounds like Jason Garrett is about to become the new Rams HC. Honestly I haven't seen Gruden even make it to the NFC Championship. I mean the guy was like 45-51 so I mean he had one double digit win season after he won the SB with Dungy's players. I've always felt the guy was way overhyped.

It just occured to me that Wayne is the John Cena of the rap industry. Everyone says they hate the guy, yet he's still regarded as being the number 1 guy in the industry.

I think thats somewhat baseball's fault. Football and baseball have created characters, have created team brands. However in baseball they have really ran it like its 30 different companies in teh "every team for itself" attitude. NFL and NBA have taken an interest in creating personalities, creating brands. Nobody watches MLB to see Derek Jeter, Pujols, Beltran, Bonds or any other player. On top of that people know very little about the teams. How many fans know that the Cardinals are the second winningest team in MLB history. Or that the A's and the Dodgers are right up there with the Cards and Yanks in championships. When it comes down to it starting in 03 when the Yanks and Sox met in the ALCS basebally started HEAVILY promoting the hatred these two towns have for each other. They had this great story they played to the fullest between the two and it made an entire nation pay attention to the Red Sox. They used the Yankee's to make people care about the Red Sox again. Then in 04 like something out of a wrestling promotion the Sox battled back from unthinkable odds to defeat the overpowering, evil Yankee's and win the championship. However I didn't hear ANY hype for the Chi Sox and it being 80 plus years for them without a championship much like it was for Boston. I didn't hear about Houston being around for 40 years and making it to their first World Championship. I'm sure it was mentioned but it was promoted, pushed, and shoved down our throats like the two years prior with Sox/Yanks In short I love baseball just as much as I do fooball and basketball. However they have marketed their teams and players so poorly to the point where no one cares. It seems like baseball hasn't had a "face" since McGwire stopped using steroids at the turn of the century. Looking back at the ratings they set an all time low in 2002, then in 2005 they broke that, and then I think this year they broke that. So its just not that people don't care about Detroit/St. Louis, they just don't care about teams that aren't Yankees and Red Sox, and thats not a testament to those teams as much as its just sad promoting and marketing on MLB's behalf.

As I said before I just don't see what a teams regular season win total matters for. The Cards made the playoffs, not only did they make the playoffs, they won their division. Was it the weakest division in baseball? Yes but somebody STILL has to win the division. Its just not given to you. Then they made the playoffs and beat the 88 win Padres in four games. Then they beat the 97! win Mets in seven games Then they beat the 95 win Tigers in five games. The Cards have won 97 games in 02, 105 games in 04, 100 games in 2005. All three of those teams won us the same amount of World Series'...0 The Cards played like the 94 Cards more than the 04 Cards when they got into the World Series against Boston, yet that doesn't take away from Boston stepping up to the plate and taking care of what they had to take care of. You can't control how the other team plays (for the most part) only how well your team plays. I think its sorta like Manning and Brady. Manning puts up amazing numbers in the regular season that makes him good but he can't get it done in the post season. Brady puts up good numbers in the season but has won three championships that makes him GREAT. Same thing the regular season only matters so much. Its who holds the championship in the end that makes a player or team great.

When you say the Midwest your discounting a lot. I grew up in St. Louis and now live in Oklahoma. This state is LITTERED with Cards fans. Same with Kansas, Missouri, Illionois, Indiana, even Tenn and Kentucky have several Cards fans. I'm not saying we're the only team in the Midwest but I think its safe to say we're generally the favorite team of the Midwest. Or atleast the south midwest. And who said that the Red Sox, or the Yank's, or the Mets or any of the northeast teams have a following outside of that region? Its just that their region has 10 million people in it. I've never seen anyone around here waving a Yanks flag or a Red Sox flag, Id on't think people on the west coast are praising the Northeast teams. Sports are almost always regional, it just sorta depends how big your region is. Aside from that hats off to the Tigers. They fought to get there, they got a hell of a team and I'm hoping for a rematch this time next year.

I'd like to think I was right about STL, since I've been saying they got what it takes to get it done from the start.

Wow don't ya just feel sorry for that guy that was saying "most lopsided Series in history". Then again its hard to feel sorry for people when they speak without knowing what their talking about.

Well how bout my St. Louis Cards. One down....

Yeah I'll try it like that

So is there a site I can view what the different role icons are? A lot of my players have them but I have no idea what the hell they are. I've tried google and reading through the thread anyone know a site where I can see which icons mean which things? Thanks

If this isn't a GOAT list then I apologize, I read it was the TOP ten, not you're top ten favorites, my apologies...

SAGE Francis is getting the number one spot? really? He's alright, poetic and such, but certainly not the GOAT. Game has made ONE album, no way he could be in a top ten. Kriss Kross? They were our generation's Lil Romeo and Bow Wow. Bubba Sparxx, this guy isn't even on a top ten SOUTHERN rap. Not with Luda, Three Six Mafia, Project Pat, Scarface, 8 Ball and MJG, Lil Wayne, and Outakst out there. Bubba had one good album his white trash mixed with hip hop album. Guys like Talib Kewli, Kanye, Common, these guys are good but they can't be in a top ten. Not with KRS One being left off of lists, Kook Moe Dee, LL Cool J (who used to own hip hop sixteen years ago). You gotta give it up for NWA for CREATING the current hip hop and they did it almost twenty years ago. ICE CUBE, on his own was the best rapper of the nineties bar none. Also you gotta give it up for Big Daddy Kane. That being said guys like Jin, Styles P, Jada, anyone from Gunit/Shady. These guys have made some good albums I'd say mabye 3 1/2 mics maybe ONE or TWO four mics, but nowadays rappers are spitting only about half the bars themselves. They got collabs, and crew joints. Not too mention we get the track AND the remix on the same fucking album. Then we got mixtape tracks that have been floating on CD's for years put on for filler. Then of course you got you're club bangers. After all that you got a handful of tracks that are entirely and completely yours. I love me some Jin, Sheek Louch, Frayser Boy, Lil Flip, Obie Trice, Lloyd Banks, and others. That doesn't make any of these guys the top ten rappers of all time. To me this is like a sports list calling Albert Pujol's the tenth best hitter of all time. The guy is on a tear, and he's had six AMAZING years, however others have done close to what he's done for two and three times as long, THOSE are the greats, these guys at BEST are the future greats.

I need a copy of 4.2, I can't find it anywhere on the net someone PLEASE help