Plankton

Maxx and AD, just curious what you guys think about Romo maybe playing since you're Cowboys fans. Would you rather him take the health risk or sit it out and maybe get behind in the standings?

The general idea is still the same. Some great players make big plays that change the game, some don't.

But assuming that the defense rankings stay similar, if Denver (30), San Diego (28), Jacksonville (22), or Indianapolis (21) make it to the playoffs and the Saints (19) doesn't, you can make a really good argument for the likes of Cutler, Rivers, LT, Garrard, or Peyton. They have poor defenses too, but their offense, which they lead, carried their teams to the playoffs, and Brees didn't.

But at this point, it's a little silly to be arguing with so many "what if" scenarios. But I don't think it's as cut and dry as stats. Sometimes it's about getting wins and making up for the deficiencies in your team. It's not a completely impartial way of looking at it, but it still matters when it comes to value. The Falcons' defense dropped the ball this Sunday and allowed the Bears to score on their last drive. But Ryan and Jenkins pulled off a pretty spectacular play and won the game. Hypothetically speaking, if Brees (good stats or not) doesn't pull off those types of plays, then what would have made him so valuable this season? Wouldn't someone with slightly worse stats who is able to pull off big plays when it counts and win games be of more value?

My argument isn't against Brees (with extra emphasis so as not to confuse my argument), but it's against the philosophy of just looking at stats. Stats matter, but you have to balance it out between that and other factors, like the ability to carry your team. There are other guys out there who can carry their teams (even when you play offense and your defense drops the ball), and if you can't, you have less value.

Matt Ryan is a shoe-in for rookie as long as he can stay healthy.

Let's say that Brees keeps up his awesome playing for the rest of the season, but the Saints' lackluster defense somehow keeps them around the .500 mark and out of the playoffs. Is Brees a logical MVP choice? I'd have to say no. If you really were the most valuable, you'd get your team in. That may not be entirely fair, but it's probably the best way to measure it.

It all comes down to the every-season argument of whether or not you factor in the rest of the team. On one hand, you don't want to punish a guy for playing on a good team. But if you don't, you're downgrading other players because they don't play on those teams.

At the end of the day though, what's most valuable? A guy who can keep his team in the mix consistently, and then make those big, game-changing plays when you need him to.

All that being said, at 71% completion, Brees should be able to make that happen.

EDIT:

Clearly TE is already won by Jason Witten

Cooley could give him a run for his money; Campbell really likes to throw to him. But yeah, Witten's definitely the frontrunner right now.

So we're 6 weeks in, and its obviously too early to start talking about who should get the MVP award, but what players have at least kept themselves in the discussion?

I wouldn't personally keep a lot of guys out of consideration. QBs are the most obvious choices, and plenty have played well. Jay Cutler is keeping his team alive, Donovan McNabb is back to his old self, Ben Roethlisberger is keeping the Steelers alive despite the terrible offensive line, and Drew Brees has a ton of yards already. Brett Favre probably keeps himself in the MVP mix based solely on his performance against the Cardinals and solid play in most of the other games. I like Eli Manning a lot too, and if it wouldn't have been for a bad game on Monday, he'd be the frontrunner.

I suppose Jason Campbell and Phillip Rivers could be in the mix soon, but for now, the other QBs have been more MVP-ish. With a few more games like he had this week, I'd be more than willing to tout Peyton Manning too, but for now, one great game among a bunch of bad ones isn't enough to put him with the others.

RBs have been a bit more inconsistent. Marion Barber has definitely been the most reliable Cowboy. Brandon Jacobs has also been pretty good. And while I think that the Dolphins' turnaround has been a team effort all the way, Ronnie Brown has had a huge impact for them. And Clinton Portis is the single most effective person on his team. Frank Gore, I think, is also a guy to look out for depending on how many game-changing plays he can make.

If it wasn't for his injury, Brian Westbrook would almost definitely be on this list. LT and Adrian Petersen have been valuable for their teams, but both have performed below expectations.

No WRs stand out to me. A lot of QBs are throwing it around all over the field this season, so none of them seem equally as valuable as a QB or RB.

So who else is standing out this season so far? I know I have to be missing a few people. (or who else am I totally wrong about?)

(And yeah, yeah, I know--the Bengals are 0-5... Shaddup. )

0-6 actually which is depressing since I like Palmer, 85 and Whosyourmama. Sadly their window slammed shut when that Steeler guy cheapshotted Carson in that playoff game.

Damn... you're right. I'm already trying to put this lousy season out of my mind.

It protects their quality at WR though since TO is getting older. While it's more sensible to make this move in the off season, Detroit was going to trade Roy Williams off this week, so if that's who they wanted, now was the time to make the move.

But yeah, the secondary should be their highest priority, and I'm sure they could have made a move for a different high quality WR later. But hey, it's Jerry Jones. When he wants something, he wants it now. Too bad he can't trade for a playoff win.

*rimshot*

Thank you, folks! I'll be here all night.

(And yeah, yeah, I know--the Bengals are 0-5... Shaddup. )

This is definitely going to crop up as a problem at some point. TO is far from logical. Even in the loss to the Redskins, where he had 7 receptions and 2 carries, he still blamed the loss on him not being involved enough. He said, "It's no secret, when I get involved, we move the chains. When I don't, we're more stagnant in our offense." (the video in the link is good too).

Getting Roy Williams is a great move, but TO is still going to complain, especially in games where Williams gets thrown to more than he does. That's not to say that it will cause a huge problem though. TO is TO, and he's going to complain no matter what. It just depends on whether or not he takes it further, and he hasn't been the "cancer" he's been in the past. It's probably not going to be a big deal.

Thanks for the info, HTTK. Interesting stuff. I think I remember you mentioning that now. By the way, you are very lucky to have taken a class taught by Hooper. I'm jealous.

By the way, I just finished Open Water, and holy damn, the ending is actually pretty effective. The movie reminds me of a wrestling match with a slow beginning and middle, but a hot end where the heel wins. It was effective where it mattered most, but was still kind of a downer. I saved it on the Tivo, and I think I might give it another try sometime. It might grow on me.

I'm basing it off of CHFF's quality standings.

The Cold, Hard Football Facts measures the performance of each NFL team only against opponents with winning records, or what we call Quality Teams. It eliminates the dead-weight detritus of games against second-stringers and gives you a look at the inner core of a team and lets you know how they perform when the sh*t gets heavy.

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is kind of a tricky one. Some posters went as far as to say "What happened is true," which is obviously nothing more than a marketing ploy. The remake was much more accurate, stating "Inspired by a true story," which is pretty accurate since Tobe Hooper based Leatherface loosely on Ed Gein. But by that logic, you could really say anything is inspired by a true story. I always thought the wording on the remake was interesting though. It reminds me of how sometimes companies will advertise their food as "reduced fat" (even though it is still high on fat) just to get shoppers to automatically assume that "reduced" means "low."

EDIT:

SPOILERS for Open Water

Oh yeah, and as I'm watching this, Open Water is on the TV. Apparently in real life some scuba divers were accidentally left behind. The scuba company didn't realize it until they found their stuff on the boat two days later. They never found the bodies. I don't think the characters were based off of the real people though. I think they just borrowed the idea from reality.

Pretty boring movie, by the way. But strangely kind of tense. And depressing.

Even though this is off topic: I don't mind unhappy endings, but dammit, I prefer them. It's kind of a downer watching a movie like this when you know the payoff is "and then they died."

EDIT #2:

Open Water update:

They found candy in their pockets! DRAMA!

Okay, the guy just got bit by a shark. Non-sarcastic DRAMA!

Still, I can't imagine watching this movie in a theater. I'm normally really patient with movies and I appreciate minimalism, but this is only working as an in-the-background movie.

When I was saying contenders, I failed to mention that I was talking about contenders to win their divisions.

And I agree, Chase, the Browns and Ravens are very unlikely division winners. But I think they're still in it. The Steelers still have to play the Colts, Cowboys, Giants, Redskins, Chargers, Patriots, Titans, and Ravens. Granted, some of those teams aren't dominating, but the Steelers are certainly capable of losing any of those games.

On the other hand, the Browns and Ravens have similar schedules and haven't been playing nearly as well. At this point, it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt though. The Ravens have a usually very good defense that could carry them, and the Browns played really well last night. But that means that the Ravens' defense has to be ridiculously good for the rest of the season, and that the Browns have to put the first 5 weeks behind them. They have little room for error, and the only way either of them will pull it off is if the Steelers self-destruct. So the likelihood is really small, and one or two more Steelers wins coupled with Browns/Ravens losses will pretty much seal it for them. So the possibility is about as small as it can be, but it's still there.

And yeah, Ace, the AFC North teams have tough schedules. As much as I'd like to think that the Bengals could pull of some huge upset, it's just not going to happen. They'd have to pretty much win every game, and it's not going to happen, especially since it looks like Palmer is done for the season. I hate to be one of those fans who stops supporting their team when things get bleak, but when you have a cheap owner like Mike Brown who won't make big moves in the off-season or hire a GM, a lack of support is the only clear message to give. That's why articles like this one is actually encouraging. It sucks that it's come to this, but the time has passed for this core group of Bengals. Palmer is obviously a keeper, but we have to build around other new players. I like the defense, as it shows potential and is improving. But the offense needs to be rebuilt. Hopefully Mike Brown grows a pair and is lucky enough to get as good of a trade offer for Chad Johnson as he got a few months ago. Right now I just hope guys who are obvious keepers (like Palmer and Odom) don't want to jump ship after this fiasco of a season.

It's quite lucky for everyone, well - it means we're all kind of back where we started anyways.

No kidding.

NFC South- The Titans are obviously way ahead here, but in examining quality standings, they still have a bit of a road ahead of them. Being 5-0 more than just helps them, but they still have a few tough games. Honestly, they have a pretty easy schedule, but so does the rest of the division. And with Kerry Collins and his poor passer rating, they're not out of the woods yet. We can probably write off the Texans if we want, but the Colts (3-2) and Jaguars (3-3) aren't too far behind.

AFC East- This one is wide open. The Bills have a good record, but are 0-1 against quality opponents (see link above), while the rest of the division has at least one quality win. It's way too earlier to count anyone out here.

AFC West- The Chiefs are obviously done, and I'm not buying into the 1-4 Raiders. Despite their terrible start, the Chargers (3-3) still don't look too bad in the long run. The same goes for the Broncos. Their record is better (4-2), but they're also a shootout team, which will cause them to lose some pretty important games. Still, the Chargers' defense has been weak too. It's definitely a two team race.

AFC North- I know there are a few Ravens fans here, so maybe there will be some disagreement with this, but I think the Steelers are the only real competition here. The Bengals are obviously done. The Ravens (2-3) don't look like a legitimate threat since their offense has struggled due to having a rookie QB and injuries at RB. I'm not buying the Browns. They played ugly against the Fitzpatrick-lead Bengals, and even though they played well against the Giants, that doesn't erase the last four games. A 2-3 record doesn't look too bad against the Steelers' 4-1, but the Steelers are just playing too well for me to buy into anyone else here. For the time being though, it's safe to say that the Ravens and Browns can still keep things competitive, especially since the Steelers have the more difficult schedule, but Pittsburgh is close to pulling way ahead very early.

NFC South- This one is wide open. Everyone but the Saints have 4 wins, and the Saints are at 3. They are pretty even in quality standing as well, although the Falcons are 0-2 against quality teams.

NFC West- Obviously the Rams are out of the conversation. I'd count the Seahawks out as well since they only have one win. I'd also like to count the 49ers out (2-4) since the Cardinals have doubled their victories, but it's still early and the Cardinals are certainly capable of a big losing streak. Just like the Steelers, the Cardinals are close to pulling way ahead early in the season.

NFC North- No one stands out here. The Bears would have been the obvious frontrunner if they would have won this weekend, but they have just as many victories as the Packers and Vikings (3). Needless to say, the Lions are done. But the three remaining teams have definite deficiencies. I would lean towards the Bears because they have the best defense and Orton is efficient, but there is no way you can say this is not a three-way race at this point.

NFC East- No surprises here. This is going to be a tight race to the last week.

So really the only teams we can write off are the Lions, Rams, Seahawks, Bengals, Chiefs, Raiders, and Texans. That's 25 other teams who have a legitimate chance at making the playoffs. I would probably add the Browns, Ravens, and 49ers, but their windows are still slightly open. But hey, if this really is Bizarro NFL, and Cardinals and Steelers will lose their next two games and the Browns, Ravens, and 49ers will win their's.

Cassel's passer rating is 78.1, and he's ranked 19 overall. Among others, he's ranked above Kerry Collins, Derek Anderson, Carson Palmer, Brian Griese, Gus Frerotte, and Matt Schaub. Some of those guys are obviously having terrible seasons, but are capable of performing well. And plus, you have Kerry Collins, playing for a team that is 5-0, below him. Matt Cassel isn't the Patriots' problem. The rest of the team needed to step up, and they have--but not enough to dominate. Plus, I'd argue (okay, CHFF would argue) that their poor draft classes have lead them where they are this season.

And I can't believe that Cleveland Browns fans just chanted "overrated" at the Giants. Maybe they were collectively doing it for the irony.

I love CHFF, any site that talks about how great of a QB Ben Roethlisberger is, is fine by me.

Also, I HATE when teams chant "overrated" that's akin to saying "Wow, you guys lost to us. You must suck!"

Chase, you referencing Big Ben so much on EWB is beginning to reach Kornheiser/Favre proportions.

Also, I HATE when teams chant "overrated" that's akin to saying "Wow, you guys lost to us. You must suck!"

Plus, the Browns have been the most overhyped team of the season so far. No competition. I'll give them credit; they played a good game and acted like the team many expected them to be, but when you're 2-3 and have been touting your team as a Superbowl contender, maybe you should save the overrated chants for the playoffs if you're lucky enough to make it in.

Cassel's passer rating is 78.1, and he's ranked 19 overall. Among others, he's ranked above Kerry Collins, Derek Anderson, Carson Palmer, Brian Griese, Gus Frerotte, and Matt Schaub. Some of those guys are obviously having terrible seasons, but are capable of performing well. And plus, you have Kerry Collins, playing for a team that is 5-0, below him. Matt Cassel isn't the Patriots' problem. The rest of the team needed to step up, and they have--but not enough to dominate. Plus, I'd argue (okay, CHFF would argue) that their poor draft classes have lead them where they are this season.

And I can't believe that Cleveland Browns fans just chanted "overrated" at the Giants. Maybe they were collectively doing it for the irony.

I bought the Mega Man anthology a few years ago thinking it would be a nice trip down memory lane. It took me a few times playing it to realize I could not play these damn games anymore. Mega Man is a great series, but holy hell... I just don't have the patience anymore. It pretty much comes down to this: if I can't dick around in between actually playing the game and blow some shit up or something, I'm probably not going to make it to the end.

Somebody want to explain where the Ravens defense that was feared throughout the league are currently hiding?

Because they're on my fantasy team.

Plus the Bengals have just invested in younger WRs through the draft. I'd be amazed if they had any plans of offering him a big contract. This is his last season in Cincy, and they wouldn't be stupid to trade him away now since their season is already shot.

Agreed about Madden, Chase. He sometimes doesn't speak too well and he says the obvious, but he is very intelligent when it comes to football. He's one of the best announcers around, I think.

And TK is a love him/hate him sort of guy. He translates really well on talk radio, decently on PTI, and poorly on MNF, imo. We do agree about Mariotti though. He's terrible in every kind of medium.

Mr. Tony's radio show is fantastic, and it is unarguably what he excels in, a fact he openly admits while being self-deprecating about his lack of announcing ability. I don't mind him on MNF, but then again, I'm usually talking to people more than listening. The only reason I wish he was off is so he could do his radio show all year round. Or at least go on a Death Star Radio rant on MNF. I'd even be happy with a small mention of someone being a naked mole rat.

Damn, I miss his radio show.

Yeah, this division has a really tough schedule, so only one team is making the playoffs. Unless the Browns win today, the Steelers have this one claimed. Even though Flacco looks pretty good for a rookie and the Ravens' defense is great, it's a bit much to expect them to do better than Pittsburgh. Similarly, although I think the Browns and Bengals are better than they've played, it would be incredibly difficult to catch up to a 2-1 or 3-0 Steelers when you are starting out 0-3. Crazier things could happen I suppose, but even though the Steelers have the hardest schedule in the NFL, they are way too consistent to drop the ball as long as their major players stay reasonably healthy.

The Bengals were much improved this week to be fair. They're still not that good but they're better than they have been the first two weeks. It's sort of bitter sweet, they're good enough to finish closer to 7-9 or whatever, but two horrible opening games sees them at 0-3.

On the flipside they're not actually horrible, but obviously they're season is more or less over now and they should get a generous draft pick while not being as bad as some of the teams around them.

I'm a massive Palmer fan, so I'd love to see some success on him. But I do think the Bengals can produce some good performances this season, they'll win a handful of matches or so.

Their major problem is pretty clear the lack of protection and blocking Palmer and Perry get. Not saying the defense is great, but it's improving. I think with guys like Hall, Rivers, and Odom performing well and progressing, the future doesn't look bleak for the defense, although I'd like to see them get a good, young DT. I know it's the typical fan thing to say, "Next year they're going to be great," but they're not in a situation where they need to completely rebuild, so the expectations should be rightfully high.

That being said, just about every team in history has had to work around and win despite deficiencies in their team's lineup, so their performance is still disappointing and there's no real acceptable excuse. But I think if they invest in some players who could severely improve the O-line, they will be a much, much better team. Palmer and the receivers are good, but it's unrealistic to expect them to make something work when Palmer's getting that much pressure on just about every play.

EDIT:

and even if they could get a high pick they wouldn't have enough many to pay Palmer, Ocho Cinco, Whosyourmama, a premium draft pick and a decent team elsewhere.

Agreed. They drafted to WRs high this year, so it looks like they are looking beyond the TJ/Johnson years already, which is fine by me, because their money could be of better use elsewhere.

Nice to see my old college, Bowling Green, get a big win. We spent a lot of money on a training center a few years ago; last year our old coach was on ESPN commenting on smaller schools upsetting bigger schools and mentioned BG as an example of small schools putting more money into their programs. I'm not sure how relevant BG can stay, but it's nice to get a big win once in a while. Too bad I moved about six months ago. Are people pretty excited around there, Green Demon? If they're not, they should be. What else is there to get excited about in BG? The fact that the Dairy Queen fills their Blizzards up past the plastic lid? Actually, now that I think about it, that is something to be excited about. The Dairy Queen in Kent stinks. Myles filled that shit up.

I really got into The Pogues, Johnny Cash, and Frank Sinatra about 4 years ago. I just recently started to listen to Bob Dylan. I'm not sure what took me so long with all of those.

EDIT: Oh, and a little Neil Young lately too. Money's a little tight, but once he funds start to increase, I'm sure more Neil Young CDs will find their way into our household. The same can be said for Bob Dylan.

If Locke died off of the island, is it completely out of the question that the island could bring him back to life if he's brought back? I know that's much different than being able to walk after years of being crippled, but I suppose it is possible. Of course, he's been pumped full of embalming fluid. So maybe not.

I keep wanting people to come back to life, but it never happens.

And I was pretty confident that Jin was going to actually be alive this whole time and that Sun would know this, but was having to go along with the charade of him being dead because they lied (this would have meant that her torment in the earlier episode was not because he was dead, but rather because he was alive, and she could never see him again or talk about it to anyone). And I did consider that he maybe jumped off of the boat, but where could he have gone to? The island moved.