KeepinThatFunkAliveV4

You mean at this point, right? If so, I agree. You can't just throw Nelson in there after 3 months or so and expect things to gel.

But in general, if Nelson had never been injured, I think the Lakers wold have to be pretty scared right now going into this series.

They went 16-4 in their first 20 games with Alston. That's better than any stretch with Nelson. You can't look at how they closed out the season since they had nothing to play for after they clinched the division but homecourt was out of the picture. This is a better team with Alston, the record doesn't lie. In the two games against the Lakers, however, it's worth noting Nelson led the team in points both games.

That said, if Ron Jeremy can find a way to get both Alston and Nelson out there to really open up the court we could be looking at a really interesting series. I feel his coaching is a bit of an x-factor in the series, his team's got a few dimensions to it and if he can find something that works against LA then we could be in for an upset. But I just don't see it happening.

Well first off, I'll take a healthy Nelson over Alston any day.

But I was mainly referring to Nelson being so effective against LA in their regular season matchups.

You mean at this point, right? If so, I agree. You can't just throw Nelson in there after 3 months or so and expect things to gel.

But in general, if Nelson had never been injured, I think the Lakers wold have to be pretty scared right now going into this series.

Well according to his teammates, Nelson is going to play. Wow.

I'm still skeptical.

I think Pittsburgh has being doing that for quite a few years now though, probably dating back to when teams wore white at home and I'm pretty sure that wasn't that long ago.

They would be stupid to not give that guy a contract. The dude has blossomed before our eyes this season and has shown he will be a solid (if not much better) player for years to come.

KTFA is the NBA version of I Love Pokemon. The level that the Cavs played at this year, anything less than a ring is failure. Same goes for the Lakers. Cleveland FAILED, they lost to a team they should have beaten. They aren't hoisting a banner. FAILURE.

The Lakers have issues guarding the three, but those issues won't be as present against Orlando because of the way they get theirs. LA can't stop drive and dish, but Orlando throws it inside then sends it back outside. Dwight Howard can have 40 (which is unlikely anyway, he's not that good on the offensive block), and they'll shut down the others. Orlando isn't 'better' than Denver, just smarter, and we saw what happened there. They also don't play good enough defense. The triangle will kill them.

The triangle will only "kill" Orlando if Dwight Howard is in foul trouble...which is very possible.

So I think this whole Jameer Nelson possibly returning for the finals thing is bullshit. I think they're just trying to get people talking about it. Either way, I think the Lakers are going to take this in 6, regardless of whether Jameer plays or not. The X-Factor for me is Andrew Bynum. If he can defend Dwight Howard, and he certainly has the body for it, the Lakers are going to take it. Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom don't really have the body to guard Dwight and Josh Powell doesn't have the height. The Lakers really need Bynum defensively but I have a feeling he'll just get in foul trouble every game again. Maybe they'll have to get DJ Mbenga some playing time..

I can't believe they are pushing him as having a legitimate chance for a return. Even if he was able to come back I think at this point his return would be detrimental to the team with him not being in game shape as well as throwing off the rhythm the team has gotten itself into.

I don't think anyone can guard Dwight Howard one on one, whoever is doing it is going to need some help. Bynum seems the most able out of all the Lakers, but you have to have Gasol in, with his offensive skill..and with Bynum already on Howard, who are you going to put Gasol on? That's primary issue for the Lakers to me. Hell, I would almost go with a matchup 3-2 zone type look, but I'm sure Phil Jackson will have something up his sleeve.

LOL @ my previous post...wow how things change. This one certainly isn't over, but like ya said, it's looking like it is.

If you notice the context of the thread at that point, someone (slips my my mind who, too lazy to look back) had just pointed out that basketball was on a 5 on 5 game. If you really needed my response to be detailed enough to understand that I was making that statement in the sense of people not realizing that [basketball is a team game] because they hadn't played basketball before, then I apologize.

Pens look good tonight. They appear to have the Wings flustered.

KTFA all your points are invalid after your idiocy claiming that no one here had any right to talk since they didn't play basketball. That your opinion instantly outweighed theirs because you played high school basketball. I really don't know how anyone can seriously argue with you after that.

Once again I have words put in my mouth and what I said is taken completely out of context.

Why the hell is it that when people debate things on this board they must come with such a condescending attitude and act like they're better than someone who disagrees with them? Get the hell over yourselves before acting like a supreme court judge and ruling my points invalid due to my idiocy, based on a conclusion you came to after manipulating my words to support your claim.

Grow up.

How were you not comparing the two teams? What the hell were you doing if that wasn't a comparison? The 1996 Chicago Bulls were a far different story from this Cleveland team. 96 Chicago not winning a title and 09 LEBRON (since you aren't speaking in terms of the Cleveland TEAM) not winning a title is a different story.

Because he's not the only player on his team, and games and championships are won by TEAMS. Funny how you didn't answer my previous question, though, yet ask me another.

EDIT: I'll slap myself here because I forgot I mentioned I was done with this topic. It's been exhausted. If ya'll raise any new points besides calling LeBron a failure because Cleveland had the best record and the Cleveland TEAM didn't win the Finals, fine, I'll discuss, or if ya wanna talk about Orlando/LA, I'll discuss.

HOLY SHIT. Did you just compare the 1996 Bulls to the Cleveland Cavaliers?!

and HE didn't have those records, his team did. Yet you are comparing LeBron's failure as an individual a hypothetical TEAM failure by the Bulls. How ironic.

When did I say it wasn't the most important part? Please.

Regardless, LeBron was not a failure this season...that statement is extremely LOLworthy. And writing me off as a fanboy and saying I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't agree that he was a failure is juvenile.

The only thing worth meaning in any sport is a championship ring

I'd like to echo your "Jesus Christ, ugh" at this statement.

Anyways, it's clear neither party is going to change the other's mind, and we're touching on the same points for about the third and fourth times now - I'm done because anything else I say at this point will be rehashing what I already said.

LeBron drawing the D's attention then passing to the open man sounds like creating opportuniteis for others to me.

With most of your reasoning, it sounds like a lot more of your criticism should be directed at Mike Brown rather than James.

But saying the Cavs should be able to run a similar triangle offense is ludicrous...Cleveland simply doesn't not have the skilled personnel to run that type of an offense. LA does and they have the coach to educate them on how to execute it.

I really think Cleveland is going to need an overhaul (and that could happen this season with the guys they have leaving, but then that would result in trying to find team chemistry all over again) or LeBron is going to have to go some where else for him to break through and win his first ring. LeBron is probably just as good of a coach as Mike Brown, and honestly, from watching Cleveland games, it looks like LeBron does just as much coaching as Brown does.

Here's my opinion on all this. Now I'm a die hard NBA fan, and I love the Los Angeles Lakers, so I might be a little bias towards Kobe. With that aside, I actually look at what Lebron James did in the eastern conference finals as a HUGE disappointment. And I'll say this, it's HIS fault the cavs lost the series, not the supporting cast. There are times when Kobe Bryant doesn't even touch the ball on the Lakers offense, and they can still run a successful set and score or get open looks because of their great passing ability as a team.

The Cavs just don't have that great of ball movement, and it's not because their individual players aren't decent passers - Mo Williams, Delonte West, and Illgauskas are all guys that can share the ball, it's because the way they ran their offense (especially in the finals) was just by isolating Lebron and letting him try to force it, and if it wasn't there, kick it out for an open shot. Once a couple of those open shots are missed, that set stops working. The Cavs barely got any ball movement in the whole series aside from a few spurts, and were barely ever taking shots in good rhythm. You just can't get it in your head that you can give the ball to LeBron to bail you out of situations if you're Cleveland or else you lose all the confidence you have in your own game, and I feel that's what basically happened to them against The Magic. Plus, forcing the ball one-on-one like that creates a lot of turnovers and that's not what you want against a team that likes to run in transition and shoot the quick three.

LeBron just doesn't understand when to let his team-mates shine without being in the spotlight. I guess you can say Kobe definitely had the same problem when he was younger, but I just don't think LeBron's maturity level will ever reach Kobe's. Besides, anyone that watched Kobe: Doin' Work has to realize just how much Kobe understands the game of basketball and how strategic his game really is, and I think that just puts him at another level from LeBron. LeBron gets most of his points because of his size and quickness and ability to blow by defenders, and that's just not typically a conventional game for the leader of an NBA Championship team. He's just got a lot to go before he can get to the level that Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant are at as far as being a clutch player or a championship winner. He's just an uber athletetic ball hog right now.

Also, I just hate how nobody's calling LeBron a ball hog for doing the same things Kobe was doing the year he averaged 35 and everyone and their mother were calling him a ball hog. When Kobe scored 81 it was all jokes about how he "doesn't pass the ball" but when LeBron takes literally almost every shot in a quarter it's "magical" .... please.

First bolded point: Yeah, Kobe's supporting cast is more competent and capable than LeBron's - it's not debateable.

Second bolded point: So Kobe is on another level from LeBron because he had a movie made about him by Spike Lee? You think because LeBron didn't have a similar movie he doesn't talk the game just as much?

Third bolded point: Kobe has never averaged more than 6.0 assists in a season. LeBron has never averaged under 5.9 and that was his rookie season. I'm not saying Kobe is a ball hog, and he isn't, at least not since the past few season - he has matured greatly as far as sharing the ball. But to call LeBron a ball hog is a bit ridiculous. Does he handle the ball a majority of the time? yes, but it's out of necessity when you consider the lack of ball handlers on the Cleveland roster. Calling LeBron a ball hog is basically the same as calling a high scoring point guard who averages 7 assists a game a ball hog. That's basically what LeBron is - a point forward.

And if you want to goto statistics on the matter of LeBron being a "disappointment" against Orlando, here's his series averages, according to ESPN

38.5 PPG, 8.0 APG, 8.3 RPG, 1.17 STL, 1.17 BLK, 4.17 TO (Yeah, it's higher than what you would like but it's skewed primarily due to one game, and it's essentially a 2-1 A-TO ratio.)

I know it's old as hell, but dos anyone play Splinter Cell: Double Agent on Xbox Live? Or NHL 09, for that matter?

The point I was making about playing basketball (and note I said at a remotely high level, IE: not d-1, nba, w/e, but thanks for taking what I said and running with it completely out of context - but I guess I shouldn't be surprised with the way this argument has gone so far. Remotely "competitive" would have been more accurate as I'm referring to being a contributor on a competitive high school team.) I was discussing that in terms of the understanding of basketball being a team game, which it seems many people don't seem to understand, as well as the fact that Orlando was an awful matchup for Cleveland.

Who cares what Jordan's teammates AVERAGED? Basketball is a game where you can learn a lot from statistics, yes, but not nearly everything, like baseball, for instance. Simple scoring and rebounding averages don't tell the whole story. LeBron has nobody else on his team with decent size who can play a damn bit of perimeter defense. He has no front line players who can make a traditional post-up move and consistently score inside. Mo Williams doesn't even act as a true point guard within the Cleveland offense - LeBron is basically a point forward.

The players surrounding Jordan were not at ALL similar to the players surrounding LeBron. I don't give a damn what the stats say. If you honestly think their teammates compare fairly to each other, you are insane.

And yes damshow, clearly you're a fanboy.

EDIT: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/200...iminated-090531 (extremely well-put)

Apparently there are a lot of people in here who think they know basketball, but in actuality, don't at all. I'm willing to bet not very many of the people calling LeBron a failure ever played basketball at a remotely high level, either.

If LeBron's a failure, I'll take being a failure any day.

Well said, even though calling Mo Williams a star is a bit of a stretch - definitely Delonte West although you did say maybe. Obviously Mo Williams won a spot on the all star team this year, but he was probably the most controversial selection. On the matter of LeBron making his teammates better, just check out Mo's career 3 point percentages by season...it's no coincidence there was a spike this season - I'm willing to bet at least 50% of his threes, if not more, were off LeBron dishes, or plays where the D broke down on rotations because of doubles on LeBron

How doesn't LeBron make his teammates better...?

You honestly think Orlando is a lackluster team? That's pretty ludicrous man.

You take Howard away and put someone else in Center and that team still makes the postseason. You take LeBron away and you're looking at a team picking in the top 5 of the draft.

Completely agreed.

You honestly think Orlando is a lackluster team? That's pretty ludicrous man.

And since when did basketball turn into a one man sport? Yes one man can take over and lead his team to many things, but it's still a team sport. The same thing can happen in every other sport as well, but ultimately an entire team earns a team accomplishment.

Don't get me wrong, Howard is great and is a freak of nature, but Orlando's roster complements him perfectly. The combination of the barrage of three point shooters and Howard inside allows Orlando to spread you out - you have to pick your poison between leaving Howard guarded by one guy or leaving shooters uncovered on the outside.

Predictions on the finals anyone?

I say Lakers in six but I can see this going seven. Dwight Howard vs the LA front line should be an interesting matchup. Gasol will get owned if he guards Howard one on one, and if they have Gasol and Bynum in at the same time (assuming Bynum on Howard), I don't know who the hell Gasol could guard...definitely not Rashard Lewis. I'm guessing we're going to see a lot more Gasol/Odom in this series.

From what we've seen of Pietrus on LeBron, he should be able to do as good if not a better of a job on Kobe as he won't be so outmatched size-wise like he was against LeBron.

I think Orlando's wings should be accounted for just fine with Bryant and Ariza, unlike Cleveland who didn't have anybody but LeBron that could guard players like Turkoglu, Lewis, and sometimes even Lee.

Maybe the difference will be point guard play - Skip 2 My Lou vs D Fish.

Well obviously not. They just lost. Lol.

Obviously James would be unfulfilled potential if he never wins a championship, or to be honest, a few of them.

But let's put things in perspective..the guy is 24...Jordan didn't win a ring until he was 28 and didn't reach the conference finals until he was 26. LeBron has already made it to the finals. So let's slow down on this unfulfilled potential talk.

Was LeBron expected to guide the Cavs to the finals this season? Yes. Did he? No. Does the fact that he hasn't won a ring at the age of 24 make him a failure? No.