HeartlineTwist

Can we not just put *SPOILERS* in the thread title and be done with it?

No, no we can't.

Yes, but the entire idea that the whole film is a dream is completely asinine. It's a dream within a dream within a dream ad naseum and including a section where one of the dreams inside the dream involved a dream so deep that they lived within it for 50 years. Step back and look at how convoluted that idea would make the entire film and it should be pretty obvious parts of the film are most certain NOT a dream. That would just be adding way too many layers to the point of being ridiculous. That entire idea seems like someone really liked the concept of multi-layered dreaming and just decided to add upon it as far as they could take it.

Well, like I said, personally I don't think the ending means the entire thing is a dream at all. But under that interpretation, which I think people are perfectly capable of arguing, Mol might not be dead at all.

Hell, to a certain extent, I hope that Christopher Nolan does some commentary on the DVD/BluRay to shed some light on this. Not so much as to provide canon for the story, but as to reveal some insight from his mind on his film. Hell, I think he left enough clues/evidence in the text of the film to support multiple interpretations, so I would love to see him discuss some of them.

Probably because concepts like that only exist in the minds of fanboys who want to think they're smarter than everyone else, including the director and screenwriter. They over analyze everything and create a million small little clues that hint to big secret plot points that ultimately only exist in their mind. Go dig up the Shutter Island thread, on the final page someone posted an essay someone wrote doing exactly what I just described.

Well...no. The point I'm making is that if an interpretation of the ending is that the entire movie was a dream, then Mol would DEFINITELY be alive. As I've asserted in several spoilered tags in the past page or two, I think the interpretation that the WHOLE movie is a dream is a flawed interpretation based on the film itself, but considering the "reality" level of the movie as a level of a dream means that Mol killing herself DOES NOT equal dead Mol.

If you don't interpret the ending as the whole movie being a dream, but that the ending moments were dreams themselves, I'm still curious when and how this dream exists in the context of the plot, but that's more of a curiosity thing than anything else. Especially because it would cast doubt on exactly what transpires between Cobb and Old Saito, and/or whether that was just another level of a dream.

As for your Shutter Island example, I'm pretty sure I know exactly which essay you're talking about, and while I agree to a certain extent, having read that essay, there are some points that would basically mean there was some incredibly sloppy filmmaking if some of the points addressed DON'T hold some merit (such as the visual differences between the two lighthouses that are supposedly the same lighthouse).

Isn't there a line in the film about how the spinner is Mal's totem? I thought everyone had to have their own individual totem, unique to be aware that they aren't dreaming? If we never see Cobb's totem then does it mean that he's dreaming and Mal's totem doesn't work for him?

Not necessarily. The reason given for everyone having their own is because only the holder should know the weight and everything of the totem. The only person besides Dom Cobb who knew that was Mal, and she is dead, so not a problem.

But how can you say with certainty that she is dead?

Is it even PC elitism, though? I mean, Christ, obviously everyone here has a PC or laptop. If we wanted to go out and buy a game for the PC, we easily could. Maybe it's just being frustrated of the fact that they don't even have the option to buy it for a 360 or PS3? That could be the root of the problem.

It actually isn't even close to PC elitism. Several games are far superior on consoles. But for a game that is essentially an interactive zombie movie in terms of presentation, the visual style will definitely help immensely with enjoyment of the experience.

And I have a PS3 and access to a 360, so jealousy/frustration isn't the issue. Just something I don't know if a lot of people thought about because I've seen very few other games that were so dissimilar between console versions and PC version in terms of the visual presentation (not necessarily even the graphics).

I've always just used default rosters. So who does everyone suggest for downloading real rosters for on PS3? And I'm assuming I have to add them as a friend before I can download them?

Actually, you don't. And I've been using and am very pleased with gamingtailgate's roster because as far as I can tell, he just named the default roster instead of fucking with ratings and shit.

I'm pretty sure that Cobb's spin of the top right after the failed extraction of Saito when he's in the penthouse/hotel thing and Arthur comes in shortly after is definitely a fair and good enough spin of the top, which DOES topple, to help validate the idea that the entire movie isn't a dream.

But if you accept that it COULD be...then there is absolutely no reason to believe Mol is dead because the "reality" level would merely be a dream at that point, so her suicide wouldn't have actually killed her.

Although Saito's use of some of her lines helps with the idea that the "reality" level is actually a dream because those lines are SO impractical that I just don't see them being used on accident. At that point, I would say that Saito is a projection when those lines coincide.

http://www.chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html

I think that's a well-written read.

As for Shutter Island:

There's a really awesome list/article written about all of the things in the film that suggest that DiCaprio's character actually IS sane

Sorry, guys, but Left 4 Dead (and probably L4D2) is simply better on the PC...

I mean, I'm sure the gameplay is near identical, but the game visually looks better on the PC. The console versions are way too bright, which detracts majorly from a "zombie" game.

And it's pretty much meant to be played online. Playing single player is just no way to go about it. And playing on anything less than the hardest difficulty is probably not doing you any favors. All of those aspects together really emphasize teamwork and even tactics. When you play Versus, all of that is just even more true.

But the visual edge goes to the PC, hands down.

Not going to lie, I didn't realize John Marston's death WASN'T the end of the game, so I stopped playing after that because I had other games I wanted to play before embarking on my quest to play as Jack Marston and get 100%. But now...

Okay, having played the demo, I'm more impressed. The locomotion stuff has made the game look a lot more refreshing, and the presentation is top notch. Enjoying the gameflow idea, although unless there's a metric shitton of lines recorded, it's going to sound old pretty fast. The other big bonus is the blocking AI is noticeably better, it's actually possible to run a draw play properly now, and the little touches like the tailback nudging his lad blocker in a particular direction are great.

My only real gripe so far is the change to the pre-snap controls. I struggled to get to grips with how to do everything, and to compound the problem, there's very little time to actually do anything, I can barely get the player I want to control selected in time. Gus Johnson is perhaps a little too enthusiastic, but I'll take it over Robo-Hammond. Oh, and I saw Reggie Wayne do the toe-drag catch thing at the sideline, which was nice, because that hardly ever worked properly in '10...unfortunately, instead of crashing down to the ground, he reverted from being about 45 degrees to standing straight up.

I don't know if it's the case for Madden, but the NCAA 11 demo was missing SEVERAL key gameplay changes that were actually included in the final game, so there may be some more stuff in the release version to be happy with as for gameplay changes.

As for Franchise mode, isn't Madden getting something similar to NCAA 11's Online Dynasty? If so, EA is pushing pretty hard for that, and I personally can't fault them for leaving it alone because it was more than entertaining enough last year and a lot of the gameplay changes/tweaks seem meaningful enough to make buying Madden 11 seem worth it rather than just making me feel like it was an update they could have released for Madden 10.

Only Cobb know's the weight of the spinner. That's why everyone has their own thing which they never let anyone else touch. If the dream can't reproduce the weight of the object, you know it's fake.

Mal knows the weight of that object...Furthermore, one could easily argue that Cobb seems a little too caught up in the moment to even give the top much consideration at that crucial point in the film. Although my bigger thinking point has more to do with trying to figure out when the (possible) dream suggested by the ending is taking place because an earlier part of the film in the supposed "reality" level features the top falling over instead of endlessly spinning as it supposedly should if the entire film was all in the context of a dream with several other levels.

The puzzles are suitably hard, but the story is pants, and the artwork didn't grab me.

Read interpretations of the game. It gets pantsier....

This will be campy and exploitive use of 3-D just like The Final Destination. I can almost guarantee a shitty LOOKING use of 3-D to boot.

Can't wait.

I saw the movie again last night. Still can't seem to gather my thoughts intelligently about this movie. Although seeing it a second time definitely lets you appreciate the film more and watch closely.

For example:

Assuming that the top IS still spinning at the end of the movie and would continue to do so, thus indicating dreaming (kind of, more on that in a moment), there's a potential problem/food for thought. The top wobbles and falls earlier in the movie when Cobb spins in after the failed extraction with Saito (when he's in the hotel/penthouse with the gun and looks like he may actually kill himself if the top does continue to spin). So, now we are left to wonder how to rectify that with a potential possibility for the ending. I also really want another viewing to clarify the logic of totems because Cobb's totem actually belongs to someone else and he tells Ariadne exactly how it works, which both seem like big no-no's according to Cobb and further confirmed by Arthur. This makes it really hard to interpret whether or not the audience can trust the top as truth or not, which I think the ambiguity of the ending reflects anyway.

I'd be in for an OD for PS3, but I won't have an internet connection for my console until late August.

Everyone should watch The Prestige if they haven't seen it. Jackman's never done anything nearly as good. And Bale is on top form. It's a really complete movie.

The Prestige really is class. Hell, I got really upset on a different forum a few weeks back when people were talking about copyright infringement versus "borrowing" ideas and then mentioned that The Prestige and The Illusionist came out at roughly the same time and compared them.

For those playing the home games, about the only decent comparison between those movies is that they both have magicians. The similarities end right there.

I'll have more specifics about why I will (subjectively) stick to this as Nolan's masterpiece later, but I want to clarify that The Dark Knight is an extremely close second.

EDIT:

Definitely not the third greatest film of all time, though. Although The Dark Knight bounced around near the top of that list when it first came out. It's come down some.

I feel like this movie is probably better the second time around (haven't seen it again to test it) because that would allow me to pay more direct attention to the intricacies of the rules and such that Nolan has crafted for this premise without having to worry about discerning the plot and such.

I would agree that the film was poorly marketed, but it definitely lived up to and exceeded my expectations and my perceptions of the "hype" surrounding it. I think calling this Nolan's masterpiece is fitting out of all of the movies he's directed and/or written. Furthermore, as far as I'm concerned, it made up for an entirely lackluster summer movie season. Sure, this summer's had some expected gems and even surprises, but I counted on Inception to deliver and it did. Upon a single viewing, this film definitely jumped up onto my list of favorite movies of all time.

PS3 users:

gamingtailgate

he's got rosters up and ready.

There will be some better ones coming out with more of the freshman/corrected transfers and stuff. But, if you're just looking for the right names in the right places then go ahead and download this one.

Does this roster just have the default roster named? I ask because Block O changed some of the ratings and shit and ended up with spelling mistakes like crazy.

Got my platinum for this at the weekend :cool:

Couple of plot holes that bugged me with some of the endings

For instance, during the "trial" where you go after the drug dealer - I killed him, yet come the end of the game it looked as though I was living happily ever after with Madison & Shaun with no repercussions!

But overall, great game.

I didn't choose to kill him, but what sort of evidence is left behind to implicate Ethan if you do shoot him? Furthermore, to split hairs, I'm pretty sure that a jury wouldn't convict a man that was trying to save his son from a SERIAL KILLER. So, not really a plot hole.

I beat the game and took it back to Blockbuster to get something else, but I will definitely buy this soon.

As for my ending/last level:

I'm pissed as hell that my controller didn't register the upward controller motion and that resulted in Jayden getting knocked out with a sledgehammer and falling to his death in that machine...so upset.

I got a Blockbuster game rental plan to play through some PS3 games without buying them (I just got my PS3 last Thursday) and picked this up while not expecting much. I plan to buy this game SOON. It's so good. Even if I beat it and play through it sufficiently, I still must own it to show to my friends because it is that good.

I'm about halfway through I think (the part where Jayden plays the piano), but this game it crazy awesome, and from my understanding, it is just going to get more and more tense.

"...Great White Buffalo..."

Fantastic movie. Look forward to owning it.

Uncharted and Heavy Rain are two of the exclusives you need to try out. Resistance is another I'd recommend if you're a fan of FPS games.

I was skeptical of Heavy Rain until I rented it (I JUST got my PS3 on Thursday). Holy fucking shit...absolutely fantastic game. I hope more games are done in a similar fashion because I think it's a brilliant format for storytelling.

I bit the bullet, traded in my PS2, all of its games, and some DS games that I didn't play anymore to get $130 from Gamestop and then proceeded to buy a PS3, Demon's Souls, and Red Dead Redemption. Now just to get an ethernet cable so I can play with you all. And Target currently has a PS3 Controller and LBP bundled for the price of the controller, so I'm thinking about that as well.

As for this game, I'm obviously just playing single player right now, but it's absolutely amazing. Totally worth the money I spent getting everything.

Wanted level goes up after falling off of a train because they just assume that you went full retard when you were attempting that great train robbery?