2004-2005 NBA Season Topic

[jonnycomelately]

It's just my opinion but I don't think Darko will ever play a meaningful minute for the Detroit Pistons. If they felt so good about him, why sign Antonio McDyess. It makes no sense. Have your insurance policy for a 19 year old #2 overall pick be a 30 year old washed up by knee injuries former #2 pick? I just think Larry Brown doesn't like being told who to play and he is going to let Darko's Serbian ass rot on the bench until his contract runs out. He is obviously not as ready as everyone thought he was but seriously, how is he going to get better and have any confidence at all when he rides the bench, gets DNP-coaches decision in over half the games and loses minutes to people on 10-day contracts and undrafted people. Ship him out of town and get what you can and just pray that it doesn't bite you in the ass in the future.

[VerbalPuke]

It's just my opinion but I don't think Darko will ever play a meaningful minute for the Detroit Pistons.  If they felt so good about him, why sign Antonio McDyess.  It makes no sense.  Have your insurance policy for a 19 year old #2 overall pick be a 30 year old washed up by knee injuries former #2 pick?  I just think Larry Brown doesn't like being told who to play and he is going to let Darko's Serbian ass rot on the bench until his contract runs out.  He is obviously not as ready as everyone thought he was but seriously, how is he going to get better and have any confidence at all when he rides the bench, gets DNP-coaches decision in over half the games and loses minutes to people on 10-day contracts and undrafted people.  Ship him out of town and get what you can and just pray that it doesn't bite you in the ass in the future.

←

Because the Pistons needed somebody to score off of the bench in the absence of Corliss Williamson and Mehmet Okur? Let's be realistic, McDyess at this current point is much more valuable to the Pistons. At this point in time it's ridiculous to give Darko heavy minutes, as we are making a playoff push. How is Darko going to help this team right now? Do you realize the Pistons are in the process of making a championship run? Darko is not going to be a catalyst for this current Pistons team no matter how much hype he's had behind him. The man needs to sit back and be patient, his time will come. And I already mentioned this in a previous post, but Darko is getting less minutes then Dupree and Ham (let's be honest, Jenkins isn't logging real minutes either so using him is an invalid arguement) because they are more effective than he is. Obviously none of those three guys are scorers, however the one thing seperating Darko from the others is defense and hustle. Ham's a veteran of the game and is used as a speciality player, usually guarding quicker, athletic SF's. Dupree has proven to be a solid contributor off of the bench, doing the little things that can help propel a team to victory. As for the ten day contract players, you must be referring to Anthony Goldwire. Goldwire is simply there to provide depth at the point guard position, obviously Darko can't provide depth at the point.

Like I said in an earlier post, Darko is only a detriment when he is on the court. Larry Brown gave him real minutes in the early stages of the season, but Darko clearly proved he is just not ready to be a contributor to the World Champions. Hell, Tayshaun Prince and Mehmet Okur also went through the same growing pains, but they didn't bitch or moan, they waited their turn. Granted those two weren't top three picks, but they were still young guys who needed to refine their skills before stepping in with the big boys.

I'd also like to mention Detroit had a similar situation with a fellow by the name of Rodney White not too many years ago. He was the 7th overall pick, and rode the bench for his first year. He wanted more playing time but never did prove his worth to the team. He was soon traded, and hasn't really been heard from since. Trust me, Larry Brown may be the coach, but Joe Dumars is the man pulling the strings. Dumars will know the right thing to do with Darko, wether it's a trade or letting him further develop his skills in Detroit.

Edited January 21, 2005 by VerbalPuke

[Malenko]

w00t the mavericks are down at half by 8 and scored just as many points has they had score in the first period of the last match

Michael Finley is dominating the game with his astonishing point from the free-throw line and his absolute kick ass performance of 0/10 from the field.

The strange thing is the clippers aren't even playing that well (well.. besides brand), the mavericks are just missing from everywhere (except howard), either the clippers play a hard defence or not.

EDIT: went to check finley's stats on nba.com, and realized besides his lack of scoring, he has 1 rebound, 0 assists, 0 blocks and 0 steals while being the second most used on the mavericks team (only nowitzky played longer). Well.. at least he hasn't any fouls or turnovers either

Edited January 21, 2005 by Malenko

[Guest Bluesman]

That's bizarre. I was reading about a possible deal of Carlos Arroyo to Detroit for Elden Campbell and a 1st round pick, and then I see on ESPN.com:

The Pistons have sent Elden Campbell and a future first-round pick to the Jazz for point guard Carlos Arroyo, a league source told ESPN Insider Chad Ford.

According to the source, the terms of the deal have been worked out and the teams are currently on a trade call with the league to make it official.

The trade should be an important one for the Pistons. They have been thin at the point guard position since letting Mike James leave in free agency this summer. The team's other two point guards, Chauncey Billups and Lindsey Hunter, are really combo guards. Adding Arroyo to the mix gives the Pistons depth and a true point guard who should help the team.

Arroyo, who had a major falling-out with Jerry Sloan last month, is in the first year of a four-year deal that pays him $4 million dollars per year. Campbell is in the last year of his contract, giving the Jazz cap relief for the future.

Expect the Jazz to waive Campbell immediately. Once Campbell were to clear waivers, the Pistons would be free to pick him up.

Still, Utah's decision to dump Arroyo so quickly is surprising. Arroyo had gained a solid rep throughout the league with his play last season and in the Olympics.

What a difference a few months make. In camp, Sloan couldn't stop raving about how much Arroyo had improved.

"Carlos looks very good," Sloan told Insider in October. "He's much better than he was a year ago. He's in better shape. He's more confident. It's always fun to watch that with players.

"Some guys try to take the short route and they get out of shape so they can't play very well. That's my biggest concern with some of the guys in this camp. He came ready to compete, and I think he's capable of having a big year."

However, an injury in the preseason, combined with a breakout performance by Keith McLeod caused problems for Arroyo. The team seemed to play with more energy when McLeod was in the game.

Combine that with what Sloan believed to be Arroyo's questionable work ethic and attitude since his return, and maybe it was inevitable that the two were heading for divorce court.

[VerbalPuke]

That's bizarre. I was reading about a possible deal of Carlos Arroyo to Detroit for Elden Campbell and a 1st round pick, and then I see on ESPN.com:

The Pistons have sent Elden Campbell and a future first-round pick to the Jazz for point guard Carlos Arroyo, a league source told ESPN Insider Chad Ford.

According to the source, the terms of the deal have been worked out and the teams are currently on a trade call with the league to make it official.

The trade should be an important one for the Pistons. They have been thin at the point guard position since letting Mike James leave in free agency this summer. The team's other two point guards, Chauncey Billups and Lindsey Hunter, are really combo guards. Adding Arroyo to the mix gives the Pistons depth and a true point guard who should help the team.

Arroyo, who had a major falling-out with Jerry Sloan last month, is in the first year of a four-year deal that pays him $4 million dollars per year. Campbell is in the last year of his contract, giving the Jazz cap relief for the future.

Expect the Jazz to waive Campbell immediately. Once Campbell were to clear waivers, the Pistons would be free to pick him up.

Still, Utah's decision to dump Arroyo so quickly is surprising. Arroyo had gained a solid rep throughout the league with his play last season and in the Olympics.

What a difference a few months make. In camp, Sloan couldn't stop raving about how much Arroyo had improved.

"Carlos looks very good," Sloan told Insider in October. "He's much better than he was a year ago. He's in better shape. He's more confident. It's always fun to watch that with players.

"Some guys try to take the short route and they get out of shape so they can't play very well. That's my biggest concern with some of the guys in this camp. He came ready to compete, and I think he's capable of having a big year."

However, an injury in the preseason, combined with a breakout performance by Keith McLeod caused problems for Arroyo. The team seemed to play with more energy when McLeod was in the game.

Combine that with what Sloan believed to be Arroyo's questionable work ethic and attitude since his return, and maybe it was inevitable that the two were heading for divorce court.

←

Wow, I'm surprised that they would waive Elden Cambell, he's a good contributor off of the bench.

I like this trade, as I remember hearing alot about Carlos Arroyo during the Summer Olympics. When Carlos Delfino returns, we could potentially have a nice little backcourt punch coming off of the bench. This reminds me of the Rasheed Wallace trade to an extent, in that we shipped off Lindsey Hunter, and he was waived and came back to Detroit. Obviously the two trades similarities stop right there.

My only concern is if Elden doesn't clear waivers, then meeting the Heat in the playoffs could be a problem. Elden did an admirable job in the NBA Finals against Shaq, and I'd hate to see us lose a big man that we could rotate against him.

[EWRFan]

I am glad that Arroyo was finally traded. He was having a hard time in Utah thanks to Jerry Sloan.

I am from Puerto Rico and everyday I read reports of the problems between Arroyo and the Jazz. How Sloan wanted him to be the next John Stockton and not the first Carlos Arroyo and all that.

Their fallout came because Sloan ordered a play and Arroyo didnt do it, then Arroyo tried to explain him why he didnt (it seems the other guys where out of position and Arroyo realised the play wouldnt work and decided to do something else) and Sloan took that personal, because he thinks he is the God of strategists or something and believes that every player has to do what he says without any input or self creativity.

Then after AK went down with an injury and the Jazz started to loose, he blamed Arroyo for it, saying that they didnt have a true point guard that stepped up and did the plays. Cause God knows that loosing their best player to injury was not the real factor.

Even the owner of the Jazz and most of the fans wanted to see Arroyo play and where supportive to him. I read several articles from the Desert News, one of Utah's newspapers and realised that everyone minus Sloan wanted Arroyo to play.

How can you say that the Jazz play better with McLeod? Have they looked at his stats? His assist per game average is half what Arroyo was doing.

Now Jazz fans, watcha gonna do with an overhyped player like McLeod, a man with no knees in Lopez (who is going to be in the DL more than he plays) and Eisley, who is going to get released at the end of the season even when he is the best of their current point guards.

[jonnycomelately]

Yeah Sloan was pissed because he said that Arroyo wasn't a team player and had a me-first attitude. So Arroyo's punishement was four consecutive DNP-coach's decisions. Then someone on the Jazz said that Arroyo wanted out of Utah, which he denied denied denied.

But with regards to waiving Campbell, he was included to make the money match up, I don't think Utah needs another center. I would laugh though if the team before Detroit on the waiver wire picks up Campbell so their plan is somewhat foiled.

[Guest Bluesman]

The Phoenix Suns acquired veteran swingman Jim Jackson and a 2005 second-round draft pick today from the New Orleans Hornets in exchange for guard Casey Jacobsen, forward/center Maciej Lampe and rookie forward Jackson Vroman.

“Jim Jackson adds significant depth to our roster and should significantly increase our bench productivity. He is a savvy vet whose game fits our system well,” said Suns President and General Manager Bryan Colangelo.

Jackson, who is currently in his 13th NBA season, owns career averages of 15.2 points, 4.9 rebounds and 3.4 assists in 805 games (646 starts) with 11 teams (Dallas, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Golden State, Portland, Atlanta, Cleveland, Miami, Sacramento, Houston and New Orleans).

An accomplished scorer and three-point threat, Jackson ranks 20th among active players with 12,217 points and 25th with 795 three-point field goals. He has a career three-point field goal percentage of .363 and he connected on a career-high 162 treys last season (6th in the NBA) with the Rockets.

The 6-6, 220-pound guard/forward was traded from the Rockets to the Hornets on December 27, 2004 along with forward Bostjan Nachbar for guard David Wesley, but Jackson did not report and was suspended indefinitely by New Orleans on Dec. 29, 2004. Jackson averaged 13.3 points, 4.8 rebounds and 41.3 minutes (4th in the NBA) in 24 games with Houston this season.

The fourth overall selection in the 1992 NBA Draft by the Mavericks, Jackson immediately becomes the elder statesman on the club at the age of 34. Jackson, who was the Big 10 Player of the Year at Ohio State during his sophomore and junior seasons, has averaged 10.1 points and 4.3 rebounds in 30 career playoff games, including 14.8 points and 10.4 rebounds in five postseason games with Houston in the 2004 Playoffs.

The 2005 second-round draft pick acquired from the Hornets is originally from Dallas. Jackson, who will wear jersey no. 21, will not be in uniform for tonight’s game vs. San Antonio.

Jacobsen, who was selected by the Suns with the 22nd overall pick in the first round of the 2002 NBA draft, averaged 5.5 points, 1.8 rebounds and 19.7 minutes in 190 games in two-plus seasons with Phoenix. In 2004-05, the 6-6, 215-pound guard averaged 5.3 points, 1.7 rebounds and 19.2 assists in 40 games.

Lampe, who was acquired by the Suns in an eight-player trade from the Knicks on Jan. 5, 2004, averaged 3.8 points, 2.1 rebounds and 9.3 minutes in 37 games over two seasons with Phoenix. The 6-11, 275-pound second-year forward/center averaged 2.8 points, 2.0 rebounds and 7.4 minutes in 16 games this season.

Vroman averaged 1.6 points and 1.3 rebounds in 10 games (one start) this season after he was acquired from the Bulls in a draft day deal on June 24, 2004. Vroman, a 6-10, 220-pound forward, was selected by Chicago with the 31st pick overall in the second round of the 2004 NBA Draft.

[D-Extreme]

Hmm....does this mean with Elden gone, they gonna play Darko? or am I WISHING they would? Arroyo on Detroit would look good to me. I cant wait to see how this plays out. I knew that Arroyo would leave Utah sooner or later...but I didnt expect him to land on DETROIT! Oh well, I think Hunter would be retiring soon of not next season. So i think its a good deal by Dumars to get Carlos Arroyo.

[Malenko]

If utah are really going to waive campbell, then the jazz don't really care about the current season so far. Arroyo still was productive in that jazz team and getting nothing of it seems awkward. A first round pick may be of use, but sending a guy who can definitely help the team in some minutes, get them boards, and defense, 4/5 plays, it's strange, they don't have many usefull big guys on the bench. i really think he could help them.

IMO what the jazz needed and still need is a defensive guy in the perimeter (hell.. a good defensive inside guy wouldn't hurt them either).

I understand why they did trade Arroyo, he sure is no john stockton . i think he's talented but be honest, between him and mcleod the difference isn't much this season. Mcleod is more allround while not being as good on the offense (i've heard a commentator say the exact opposite thing once, but this is how i see it). Arroyo last season gave some ideas of what he would be able to reach, and IMO he was actually trying to play more for the team than last season, but things weren't working so well.

That team had a shitload of point guards and i expected one of them to leave.. maybe those issues with sloan helped making the decision of which one should leave.

Hope arroyo calms down and improves to the level he's able to reach. I haven't any doubts he can do much better.

EDIT: Maybe they don't need another center, but they need a good one.. have you seen how most of that bench is playing?

Edited January 21, 2005 by Malenko

[Karizma]

Team 12 for Jimmy, I still see him somehow pulling what he wants and going to the Heat...

Heh, Elden Campbell gets traded, Darko is one place ahead now, but still has Coleman, McDyess and the Wallaces ahead of him.

Arroyo I thought was ready to have a breakout season this year...guess he got a ego after his games in the Olympics, huh?Pistons will use him as Mike James 05 or something probably.

Memphis has snuck up on everyone with Fratello, bout time they gave Pau Gasol some more minutes, the guy should be a All-Star, same with Elton Brand.Elton Brand always gets left out.

[jonnycomelately]

Jimmy Jackson's lifelong quest to be in every NBA organization at least once is on the move again. New Orleans could have got one decent player instead of three marginal players but hey they're young and they most likely will get a good dose of minutes in New Orleans.

The Hornets to make room for the three new players though had to waive Junior Harrington and Matt Freije, both of whom at one point in the season were starting for the worst team in the league.

And with Darko, he only has the Wallaces and McDyess ahead of him. Derrick Coleman was released a while ago. But the Pistons plan to pick up Campbell off the waiver wire once he clears and put someone like Ronald Dupree or Lindsey Hunter on the IL.

And in closing, last night's Suns-Spurs game was one of the best basketball games I've seen in recent memory. Ginobili played filthy, and on ESPN this morning it was said that he had the 6th lowest career scoring average for a person scoring 45+ points in a game. Top of the list, Tony Delk's 53 a few years ago and Tracy Murray's 50. I never even knew Tracy Murray scored 50 in a game before, whatever team let that happen should have to fold.

[Malenko]

And in closing, last night's Suns-Spurs game was one of the best basketball games I've seen in recent memory.  Ginobili played filthy, and on ESPN this morning it was said that he had the 6th lowest career scoring average for a person scoring 45+ points in a game.  Top of the list, Tony Delk's 53 a few years ago and Tracy Murray's 50.  I never even knew Tracy Murray scored 50 in a game before, whatever team let that happen should have to fold.

←

[Karizma]

Tinsley has gotta be pulling for Most Improved honours this year, he carried the Pacers to a decent record (for what it was) when JO was out for those 15 games...and is playing well recently.

Ginobili has been the man for years internationally, just none of you Americans take notice until the Olympics.'02 World Champs he dominated, and played injured and still dominated Peja, Jaric, Divac, etc in the Final.Thats when Jaric was good, too.

[Malenko]

Tinsley has gotta be pulling for Most Improved honours this year, he carried the Pacers to a decent record (for what it was) when JO was out for those 15 games...and is playing well recently.

Ginobili has been the man for years internationally, just none of you Americans take notice until the Olympics.'02 World Champs he dominated, and played injured and still dominated Peja, Jaric, Divac, etc in the Final.Thats when Jaric was good, too.

←

Edited January 22, 2005 by Malenko

[D-Extreme]

Murray scored 50 points during his 19-98 stint with the Washington Wizards. I think next to Howard, Webber and even Strickland, he was the next line of offense for the Wizards during that season after they got sweeped by Chicago.

Ah sweet memories, when he actually played good. And Kemp was not even suspected of hemp.

Man I heard Lenny Wilkens just quit. Damn, talk about bummer. Oh well I just hope Herb Williams can actually coach the Knicks into a win while he is the intern coach(I am not sure if he will be the permanent new coach for the Knicks)

[Karizma]

Ginobili's third option on that team, and his scoring went down when Pop decided he'd drop his minutes in faovur of Brown and Barry...The Spuyrs are trying to makie too much depth, so of course it's gon hurt Ginobili.Tony Parker's turned into the 2nd option so Ginobili has to play the roleplayer and get steals etc, to carry his offence.When Ginobili plays internationallly, he consistantly averages 20 a night, but isn't a selfish player, and takes his opportunities when he gets them, instead of forcing shots like Kobe, for example....gee, those Lakers are playing well without Kobe, may I add.If he was more aggressive on offence and looked for the ball more often, he probably would be averaging 20 a night.

Ginobili, given a chance to play more minutes, would be great, he doesn't get that luxury though with Barry and Brown and such pushing behind him.

And I was going on how much Tinsley's scoring's up, and his leadership when the team lost it's stars, more so than anything.Hell, if that Fantasy guy Rob whatever can list Wade as the current Most Improved, I can go for Tinsley.

[Driver The Naniwa]

Damn that Lenny Wilkins! I was really thining the Knicks were gonna do good this season. Then the 5-game losing streak, and now Lenny quits. It's hard being a Knick fan right now.

[Green Demon]

Well Lebron got another triple double his secound in 3 games. The Cavs won big too so all in all it was a good game

[jonnycomelately]

Hopefully Herb Williams can keep his perfect record as a head coach and the Knicks will blitz through the rest of the season and win the Atlantic. The more realistic scenario: The Knicks continue to tank and make it extremely clear that Lenny Wilkens was not the problem...the fact that this team can't play as a team is the problem.

And me and my buddies were talking about this yesterday, I wonder if anyone on New Orleans is going to take a shot at JJ, the next time they play Phoenix. I say no because New Orleans is on a roll (if you can have one and still have a winning percentage under .200) and having a couple guys get suspended would do nothing but hurt the chemistry and Byron Scott's rotation.