The 2005/2006 Hockey Season Thread

[Ananas]

Oh God, I swore to myself that I'd never become one of these people. You know the kind - they get into useless arguments over sporting events like their opinions (or even the sporting events themselves) matter. For a better example, just look at any thread about soccer on this board. Anyway, this is the last time I'm going to discuss this matter, because I have to stop the bleeding and wasted time at some point. I'm not going to stay here and throw the same argument back and forth at you because we're getting no where. I'm just going to pick out the original part of that post and reply generally.

As for comparing GAA and SV%, there's no real comparison. One is a measure of how many goals a goaltender gives up per game, which is entirely dependant upon how many shots the team in front of you gives up. GAA average is dependant upon what percentage of those shots you save. Going back to your example of Roberto Luongo, if Patrick Lalime had recorded Luongo's save percentage, he would have had a GAA of 1.61. Conversely, for Luongo to have had a comparable GAA (based on the amount of shots he recieved in 03/04), he would have had to have had a SV% of .933 which, while he wasn't far off on the surface, is a huge difference when you consider that he played 73 games and faced a massive 2475 shots. You seem to imply that Lalime is at a disadvantage in this because he faced less shots, but that's not true. That's like saying the rich are worse off than the poor because they have to pay more tax. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe a goaltender is likely to get stronger as he gets to facing 30+ shots in a game, so if anything it's logical to assume that Lalime's SV% would actually be lower with a lesser defence. Time will tell, as it's hard to argue that he'll be inheriting a better defence in St. Louis. SV% isn't perfect, but it's still the best single stat in measuring a goaltender's performance.

Wow, I liked the childish insult, especially considering there was no call for it.

[Guest Grapehead]

That's pretty much all I can say that I hadn't already with my last post. However, in your last point you made a veiled insinuation that goaltending is perhaps less crucial than the other aspects of the game ("A team that is carried by their goalie will never be looked at as the better team in my eyes."). I can only assume that this is the product of your being a fan of a team which has always regarded the position with a sense of apathy, but I can unequivocally say that this is a mistake. Goaltending at the level of Ed Belfour's is extremely hard to come by, and a team that has it shouldn't be discounted for relying on it any more than the Canucks should be discounted for relying on Markus Naslund or the Flames for relying on Jarome Iginla. In the end, the only thing that matters is who came out on top. The Leafs and Senators have met in the playoffs 4 out of the past 5 seasons, and every time so far the Leafs have been victorious. Call it reliance on a goaltender all you want, but unless there is some great karmic reward bestowed upon the Leafs each time these teams meet, it's just the mark of a better team.

[oldskool]

Now in regards to your comment of the Leafs relying on Belfour being the same as the Flames relying on Iginla, or the Canucks relying on Naslund, it's a different story. Iginla and Naslund are their teams respective captains, and a team will always rely on their captain for certain things, like leadership, but not many coaches would like to tell you they rely on their goaltending to win. Why wouldn't a coach tell you that? Because they don't want to be regarded as a team that can't get it done anywhere else on the ice, nobody would look at them as a contender for the cup, just like I didn't regard the Leafs as a cup contender in '04. Atleast the Nashville Predators played reasonably good hockey, and didn't fall back on Vokoun. My point is, I don't see how you can think it the same to rely on a goalie, as it is to rely on your team captain.

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[Clawson]

Two goalies have a 1.00 GAA. One faces five shots (80% saves) and one faces 30 (96.6~% saves). Which is better?

Two goalies have 80% SV%. One faces five shots (1.00GAA) and one faces 30 shots (6.00GAA) Which one's better?

You can't just say one is better than the other because you have to take shots on goal into consideration, and because of that you have to compare both GAA and SV% to find out who's a "better" goalie.

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[SeanDMan]

Remember kids, some goalies like to play hot. A guy like Arturs Irbe can face 8 shots in a game and let in two goals, and then come in and face 30 shots and let in one goal. A lot of dead time for a goalie can be your own worst enemy. If you stay busy, most goalies are better off.

It's very rare to see a goalie suceed when he doesn't face many shots. Broduer can do it. But look at CuJo, otherwise a good goalie, but when he got to Detroit during the regular season, he played not so hot.

[Guest Grapehead]

Another thing to consider, a lot of teams play a game where getting the puck on net is first priority on offense, so they would normally fire more shots on goal, but not always make decent scoring chances out of them, thus a goalie racks up easy saves. There's no ONE statistic or even two, statistics don't even hold water in the playoffs at all. I don't know why I got into an argument over statistics, looking back, because most are stupid, and leave much information to be desired.

[Guest Bluesman]

To break out of the lull that the NHL off-season has been in since the big free-agent flurry, Atlanta and Ottawa decide to make a monster trade, Heatly for Hossa:

The Atlanta Thrashers have called a 5:30pm et press conference at which they are expected to announce that the team has acquired Marian Hossa and a defenceman from the Ottawa Senators for forward Dany Heatley.

[Ananas]

Biggest free agent signing of the off-season below...

Jim Hughson joins Hockey Night in Canada! It's a bit old, but that's a pretty decent replacement for Chris Cuthbert.

[Clawson]

As much as I hate Marian Hossa I have to say that Atlanta won this deal. Hossa and Heatley have outputed the same amount of points recently and Greg de Vries is a very solid defensemen.

Oh well, I don't know if CKN is crying or cheering right now.

[Guest Grapehead]

I dunno what to think actually, sounds kind of exciting at first, but Hossa seems to fit Ottawa's play a lot more than Heatley, but I'll have to wait and see.

[Guest NYJetFan86]

My first reaction to the trade was "holy shit heatly to ottawa" but then i figured with the new way the schedule focuses on divisional matchups i dont have to worry either way since neither atlanta or ottawa are in the atlantic division

[CKN]

As much as I hate Marian Hossa I have to say that Atlanta won this deal. Hossa and Heatley have outputed the same amount of points recently and Greg de Vries is a very solid defensemen.

Oh well, I don't know if CKN is crying or cheering right now.

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[triplexpac]

Hossa probably wouldn't have played his heart ouf this year if Ottawa kept him anyways. He didn't really want to be stuck there... he wants "Iginla money"

[gunnar hendershow]

I don't think this trade will benefit either team, but give Heatley a "fresh start" in Ottawa and get Hossa out of Ottawa since he probably didn't want to be there anyway.

[Clawson]

get Hossa out of Ottawa since he probably didn't want to be there anyway.

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[Guest Grapehead]

get Hossa out of Ottawa since he probably didn't want to be there anyway.

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Especially since Muckler signed him to a long-term deal with the Ottawa Senators whilst planning to trade him to the Thrashers without telling Marian.

Completely lowball and a digusting act, good look to Ottawa in signing players to long-term contracts now. You don't treat your best player like shit even if he is Marian Hossa.

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[Clawson]

Ya Grapehead because we all know Marian Hossa's agent wouldn't know whether Marian thought that he was going to be playing for Ottawa or be traded.

[gunnar hendershow]

What I've read about the deal was Hossa signed the deal and was immediatly traded. So methinks he knew something about the deal.

[prime time]

Actually, it's been well documented here in the city of Ottawa that Hossa did not know that he was going to be traded. This came as a shock to him just as it did to the public.

Now, the question on everyone's mind is, who's the better player. IMO, if Heatley can go down the path that he was on before the car accident then I think that he will be the better player. If not, then Hossa.

And as far as Salami Hider #1's comments about Ottawa's players not wanting to re-sign, I don't see that to be the case at all. Hossa said that he wanted "Iginla money" when he has not led his team to game 7 of the finals the way Iginla did. And to be honest, the only reason you think that way is because you're such a diehard Leaf fan that it is just your nature to hate anything that the Sens do.

[Clawson]

And as far as Salami Hider #1's comments about Ottawa's players not wanting to re-sign, I don't see that to be the case at all.  Hossa said that he wanted "Iginla money" when he has not led his team to game 7 of the finals the way Iginla did.  And to be honest, the only reason you think that way is because you're such a diehard Leaf fan that it is just your nature to hate anything that the Sens do.

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