Black Sox Scandal

[Big Red Fury]

Ok well I just finished watching Eight Men Out, and I got to thinking, do you believe everyone threw the series? Personally I do not and here's why. First off Shoeless Joe did take the money, but if you look at his stats you'll see that he batted I believe .375. Now I don't know many people who throw a series and still bat nearly .400. Now Cicotte, Williams, Gandil, McMullin, Risberg, and Felsch, I believe they did all conspire to throw the series. That leaves one more man, Buck Weaver. He batted over .325 and he made no errors during the series. He was banned for having knowledge of the fix and failing to report said knowledge. That in my mind is pure bullshit. How a man can receive a lifetime ban for essentially doing nothing wrong(sure he didn't stop it, but come on that is splitting hairs) is beyond me. I believe that for the most part Landis did the right thing, but I don't believe Jackson or Weaver should have been banned for life.

Edited June 17, 2004 by Jesus H. Christ

[Guest TheTokenWhiteGuy]

well if a person knew about a terrorist attack, and didn't report it, he would probley be arrested, now I know it isn't to that extent, but thats a similarity.

But then again, I don't know much about the situation.

Edited June 17, 2004 by TheTokenWhiteGuy

[HailtotheYo]

Shoeless Joe was screwed. In court, he didn't know what he was signing (the admission of guilt) because HE COULDN'T READ ! His "friends" (read teammates) didn't tell him what it was either, and just made him take the fall with them.

[GhostMachine]

I'm a major baseball buff, and Eight Men Out is one of my favorite movies - Not just favorite BASEBALL movies, but favorite MOVIES. Period.

My thoughts about the scandal:

1. Buck Weaver got just about what he deserved, in my opinion. Knowing what's going on and not doing anything about it makes him almost as guilty as the players who were throwing the game. He should have received a punishment that was long enough to keep him out of baseball as a player (ie, being banned long enough so that he'd be too old to play), and even after that, no one in their right mind would have hired him as a coach, scout, or anything involving contact with players.

2. Shoeless Joe Jackson was hosed. Other than the confession he signed (which he would not have signed if he wasn't illiterate), there's no proof that he was in on the fix. If Pete Rose gets in the HoF before Shoeless Joe, I'll be mega-pissed, because there's definite proof of Rose's guilt.

3. One thing I didn't like about the movie is that it doesn't throw enough guilt on the owners, and on Charles Commiskey in particular. Commiskey was a stingy bastard who screwed his players at every opportunity. The movie mentions one incident, where Eddie Cicotte was supposed to get a bonus if he won 20 games, and Commiskey had him benched after 19, so he didn't have to pay him the bonus. Frankly, the way baseball was run in that era, with players essentially being slaves to their teams (no free agency, and players had to take what pay the owners offered), and with Commiskey being a total bastard, its easy to see why the players threw the Series.

I just wish the Series had been against another team, instead of the Reds. Because that gave my favorite team a tainted championship. (Who knows...The Reds might have won it anyway, but its very unlikely.)

[Big Red Fury]

I'm a major baseball buff, and Eight Men Out is one of my favorite movies - Not just favorite BASEBALL movies, but favorite MOVIES. Period.

My thoughts about the scandal:

1. Buck Weaver got just about what he deserved, in my opinion. Knowing what's going on and not doing anything about it makes him almost as guilty as the players who were throwing the game. He should have received a punishment that was long enough to keep him out of baseball as a player (ie, being banned long enough so that he'd be too old to play), and even after that, no one in their right mind would have hired him as a coach, scout, or anything involving contact with players.

2. Shoeless Joe Jackson was hosed. Other than the confession he signed (which he would not have signed if he wasn't illiterate), there's no proof that he was in on the fix. If Pete Rose gets in the HoF before Shoeless Joe, I'll be mega-pissed, because there's definite proof of Rose's guilt.

3. One thing I didn't like about the movie is that it doesn't throw enough guilt on the owners, and on Charles Commiskey in particular. Commiskey was a stingy bastard who screwed his players at every opportunity. The movie mentions one incident, where Eddie Cicotte was supposed to get a bonus if he won 20 games, and Commiskey had him benched after 19, so he didn't have to pay him the bonus. Frankly, the way baseball was run in that era, with players essentially being slaves to their teams (no free agency, and players had to take what pay the owners offered), and with Commiskey being a total bastard, its easy to see why the players threw the Series.

I just wish the Series had been against another team, instead of the Reds. Because that gave my favorite team a tainted championship. (Who knows...The Reds might have won it anyway, but its very unlikely.)

←

The difference between Weaver and Jackson is that Jackson actually took money, dispite not actually throwing the games. IMO that makes him more guilty than Jackson. Also I believe they also could have focused more on Comisky being a miser, but I think the scene with Cicotte(29 wins when he needed 30) planned that angle kinda of in the minds of viewers. I still firmly stand by the belief that neither Weaver nor Jackson should have received lifetime bans.

[gunnar hendershow]

I haven't looked that much into it. What I know and read has given me the following opinion... Shoeless Joe should be in the Hall of Fame.