CBS EliteXC Live Thread

[Fitzy]

Has it ever been discussed why Viacom chose to have Elite get the network primetime coverage over UFC?

Yeah, UFC wanted total control over production but CBS wouldn't give that up, just like NBC and HBO wouldn't give it up as well. That's why they are in negotiations with FOX's entertainment department instead of FOX's sports department so they can retain the production control.

[Guest Dr. Potato Head]

Hee hee hee. Snarky Meltzer makes his triumphant return.

So other than major questions about his power, wrestling, ground game, and cardio Kimbo looked great.

[ROC]

Has it ever been discussed why Viacom chose to have Elite get the network primetime coverage over UFC?

Could also be a good effort to plug Showtime. CBS has done a good job of that in recent years with showing stuff like Dexter repeats and I believe they showed an edited version of Brotherhood's pilot episode. Isn't CBS/Showtime in different divisions than Viacom and SpikeTV now anyway since both sides have split?

[Maxx]

Kinda sorta. They're in different divisions, but they're owned by the same parent company, so I'm sure they offered UFC the spot as Fitzy mentioned

[ROC]

I guess the next question would be, does anyone think the telecast will get higher than a 3.0 rating? I believe 3.0 is what CBS and EliteXC were aiming for in terms of a rating.

[8FOR!3]

Thing is, James Thompson isn't even anything special on the ground. He was completely sold on Kimbo's arm, if he would have taken mount, it would have been over. This show was TERRIBLE.

[Maxx]

Yeah, it looked like UFC circa 2002, exactly the image UFC is trying to get away from.

I won't be suprised when Tito ends up in Elite, its much better suited for him and his character than UFC is anymore.

[Gabriel]

I don't know why anyone thinks it should have been stopped with Kimbo against the cage. His arm was pinned, sure, but the shots he was taking weren't doing any damage. If anything should have been done about that position, it would have been that the fight should have been stood up because neither man was doing anythng really.

[Mountainous Cleavage]

This fight actually really disappointed me into Kimbo, although he's a great brawler, and he's got some ground game which he showed in the 1st round, I can see anyone with a good ground game, and that can either take a beating or work around a beating (for atleast a round and a half) knocking Kimbo off his throne, which saddens me.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Closed and Moved to Archives

[Gabriel]

The thing that's going to make Kimbo and EXC successful here is that the fans are getting to see his metamorphasis from a Street Fighter to a good well rounded Mixed Martial Artist.

Before this fight, we weren't even sure if he'd be able to do anything from his back. What he did in there tonight is leaps and bounds ahead of where most guys would be at this stage in their careers... and yeah, a better fighter would have beat him on the ground, but that's not what EXC is doing here. They'll keep giving him guys that will help him showcase his evolution, and when the time is right, Kimbo Slice will be given a shot at some gold.

It's a smart business strategy, and it's Booking 101. Play to the strengths, but also emphasize improvement in other areas, until the fighter is ready for a title shot. I think this fight did exactly that. What Kimbo already does well was showcased enough, and what he needs to improve at, he showed his improving at. This fight also made public some new holes in his game, but those are just more improvements he'll be able to make on worldwide television.

[Maxx]

Problem being, Elite XC doesn't even have a heavyweight title to my knowledge, so they'll run the risk of making it look like they just created the belt for Kimbo.

And my favorite comment from someone on an ESPN article about the Kimbo fight...

Ok, you guys never seen this dude on youtube. He is a beast, when the one fight he was telling dude to hit him in the head. And those of you's who didn't watch the fight cause you can't afford cable, he gave the REF a thumbs up when he was getting elbowed in the head, and when the bell rung he got right up. Sorry this floppy ear dude tried but it wasn't enough. As long as Dana White owns UFC, its fixed, SLICE is the truth, Couture would get killed. No UFC punk can take KIMBO.

So many things wrong with that statement.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Maxx

[Enter Blue Guy]

I don't know why anyone thinks it should have been stopped with Kimbo against the cage. His arm was pinned, sure, but the shots he was taking weren't doing any damage. If anything should have been done about that position, it would have been that the fight should have been stood up because neither man was doing anythng really.

Any ref at a UFC worth his salt knows to call the fight with a fighter is on his back, against the cage, arms pinned, with an opponent with complete side control, firing away with elbows for an extended amount of time. Kimbo apologists can rest easy knowing that he would have probably made Thompson's head explode eventually, but either way, the fight should have been stopped in the second. There is no way around it, Porno Steve, Big John, Flyin' Yves, name any reputable official, they would have ended it.

EDIT: And that's no matter how the fighter appears after the round, if he was fine or you had to peel him off the canvas, not stopping that was BS.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Enter Blue Guy

[The Red Reuben]

Either way, that was a fun fight, and I cannot wait for Lawler/Smith II.

Kimbo didn't do too poorly for a guy with little to no ground game.

Also, at first I thought it'd get stopped in the 2nd, but there were times during UFC 84 where I thought the same, so I cannot claim conspiracy. The ref will always have eye contact with the fighter, so they can see if they are trying to defend and what not.

Either way, I hope they got a good rating.

[Enter Blue Guy]

It was a pleasant surprise that James Thompson and Kimbo produced an exciting 2+ round fight. I thought if it some how went into the second, both guys would be gassed out by the end of the round. Kimbo made James look like a threat on the ground, which is kind of sad, but it made the fight interesting. I still think the controversy ruined it a tad for me.

Smith/Lawler was something. Or on it's way. Somebody said it wasn't a FOTYC, I disagree. I was into the fight huge. Usually I think wild slugfests are sorry excuses for FOTYC, but this was back an forth, technical, dramatic, hard hitting... This wasn't a slugfest, this was a damn good, techinical war. Nice knees, kicks, and elbows, good jabs, back and forth. I will go out there and say it, this was going to be a crisper, more refined Bonnar vs. Griffin, IMO.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Enter Blue Guy

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

People still shitting on Kimbo, despite the fact he's improved greatly on his ground game and working a fight. I still believe the hype around him, because he is a beast. And for me, any fight involving him is always exciting, because either he's killing somebody or his major hype is defeated.

[Maxx]

He's never going to be able to compete with UFC caliber guys though. He's starting way too late and he has no background in any of the disciplines that go into MMA. He's the first guy I've ever seen who's style is listed as "Brawler"

You look at someone like Lesnar who also sort of started late and just kind of fell into the whole MMA game, and at least he's got a great amateur wrestling background to fall back on. Kimbo's got his internet rep and some knockout power. He's like a somewhat more refined Tank Abbot.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Maxx

[Enter Blue Guy]

I'll give Kimbo credit for surviving on the ground. Well, doing his part to survive on the ground, but the fact James Thompson passed his guard his ease means he still has a long way to go before he takes on somebody with a credible ground game. He had one nice reversal and I know James is a big, powerful guy and showed it, so I'll give Kimbo the benefit of the doubt, but I didn't think Thompson would be able to slither through his guard and he did. That shows me Kimbo is indeed still very much a work in progress.

I'm not going to discount Kimbo, but the same people who say we should be hyping him up as the real deal would have been talking about how Thompson was his first real MMA test if he would have lost, which could have easily been the case. James Thompson was never a match for Kimbo on the feet. It took James an entire lunch break to beat a past his prime, old, battered, Don Frye. Frye was standing point blank, eating slugging shots from James for what seemed like an entirety and he still couldn't KO Frye. The ref had to stop it similar to last night's stoppage. I didn't think James even had a ground game, I've never seen him on the ground for that long or be that effective either. On top of that he's already been fucking KO'd by Bret Rogers, handily.

I'm not a Kimbo hater, a blind man can see his potential is endless. It seems like people either put him on a pedestal or right in the gutter, depending on whether you love or hate him. I simply see him for what he is worth. A big deal on the internet, somebody who can draw, has an ecstatically pleasing style of fighting, but at the same time is still very green (as Thompson showed), and has an uphill battle in front of him if he wants to convince any keen eye on MMA that skill wise, he is anything more than potential. The blueprints are there, he's just got to keep learning. A Main eventer in terms persona and popularity, but speaking from an actual MMA credibility standpoint, he's prelim material at the very best, IMO. MMA is a business and bottom line is Kimbo puts asses in seats. Therefore, Kimbo = main event.

There are people who want to see him whoop dat ass and the rest are still holding out for MMA's hero to come and put him to bed. Because apparently after his first loss (don't worry Kimbo haters, it will come eventually) Kimbo will disappear and never be heard or seen from again. Realistically, for Kimbo the fighter, his first loss will be the best thing that ever happened to him when it comes to taking his ability to the next level.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Enter Blue Guy

[Fitzy]

WrestlingObserver has the first numbers in:

First ratings data on last night

We don't have a rating yet, but the news is very encouraging.

The half-hours in the 18-49 demo were 1.4, 1.6, 2.1 and 2.4. The first hour was nothing impressive but the second hour was the highest rated in the demo on television for any show. The level of growth was spectacular. This is only from 9-11 p.m. so we don't know how the last 50 minutes did but at least in the demo it handily beat the NHL playoffs.

[Enter Blue Guy]

I'm pretty sure reruns of Home Improvement go neck in neck with the Stanley Cup finals in the ratings.

[Guest Dr. Potato Head]

Having had time to actually think about what last night's Kimbo fight meant...it wasn't horrible for Kimbo, but it wasn't great. He showed that he can be manhandled on the ground by even a below-average ground fighter - but if EXC puts more thought into his opponents beyond "oh, that guy loses a lot", they can keep his mystique going with the casual fan (who won't care about allegations of him being given an easy run for a while yet). But I don't see any way he'll be able to compete with even Brett Rogers, ever.