notatardis

Bill, if you want, I'll take down my notes of the before and after in my game. It was all auto booked, likes yours was I presume.

Feel free to, though I'm starting to think that, in the end, we probably should just accept the boost as a part of the game... Otherwise, why would we stop at adjusting everythng for TNA? 30-some other promotions, if they raise in their size during the game, would be getting this boost as well. Seems to be just too mch trouble to worry about for what really amounts to a minimal boost that pretty much every promotion in the game could end up getting, and getting multiple times if they jump more than one size during gameplay.

Also, to be fair, in the test I ran, I adjusted TNA's Image to 99, so that I could see the boost pretty much immediately. Starting at 73 National and booking shows, PPV's, etc would likely net a different result when the player got to Global, because overnesses would go up (and maybe down) between the start and when they hit Global. I adjusted the game so that there was really no time to adjust the overneses via gameplay.

-Bill

I just did the same thing (well, with 100 instead of 99), and got different numbers again. It'd seem that we should go with option 1 or 2 that you mention.

TNA's ratings aren't THAT bad, they're still around the 1. whatever mark. I don't think Spike is more known than USA.

Bill, if you want, I'll take down my notes of the before and after in my game. It was all auto booked, likes yours was I presume.

I have slightly different numbers by a +/- 1 or so for each some more (AJ Styles is a 93) so the boost would also seem to be random-ish.

Hogan's on Impact a decent amount, Bischoff no, after a storyline.

Anyway, it seems that they all get a standard boost of 3-7 or so, like it seemed before, regardless of card position.

I thought the idea was, that if they get that boost when they move up, we would simply lower them all by 5 points now so when they go global, their numbers would be accurate?

Maybe Luther just had a sex change op.

He knows how and why, he was just remarking about how it never happened despite starting a ton of new games.

Where? I can't find anything within the last couple of years for him offhand. I mean, has he really gotten better as time has gone on? Based on his work in the WWF, I'd suggest he belongs at about 60, and his overness about 55, if not less.

Kris, I think you once said you're in the business, is it possible you're a little too close to the situation in some cases? I don't mean it as an insult or a slight, more addressing the discrepancies.

Regarding Alex Riley's status with WWE, it's said that he lost his push that was in the works because of a backstage incident with John Cena. PWInsider.com reports word going around is that a while back, Riley was backstage with John Cena and Cena was ribbing him in front of some of the other wrestlers. Riley reportedly came back angrily at Cena, which was seen as him "breaking the code of the locker-room."

Low Alex Riley's behaviour 5-10 points. Cenas too.

I would not lower anyone's behavior in this case, I would say attitude. Ribbing is still allowed however Riley was in the wrong according to the office. I would say 10 for Riley (lowering him to 77) and 10 for Cena (he currently has a 98 in attitude.)

I am pretty sure the PWE/NWA-East is going to be removed though I cannot speak for Bill.

This is the first "negative" thing I have ever heard of Cena, and it doesn't seem like he was in the wrong at all. I would leave Cena as is.

-Raise Big Daddy Voodoo's stiffness to 63. Lower his overness to 62.

-Raise Hardcore Holly's brawl to 75 and speed to 30. Lower his attitude to 76 and behavior to 71.

-Check SS Look for Matt Capotelli. Lower his attitude to 88.

-Lower Larry Sharpe's talent to 60 and backstage to 66.

Am I missing something on Holly? I don't recall anything of his suggesting he deserved anywhere in the 70s and I doubt he's gotten better as he's gotten older.

speaking of crowd sizes, is there a database for that? And it should be a factor, but I'm not sure how much of one. Reportedly, aren't TNA and ROH drawing poorly these days?

The way I see it, CHI and ROH are the only definitive Cult. DGUSA is likely because of where they run even though they run less often, though our merging them with Evolve solidifies it in my eyes. PWG and CZW are tweeners. There's a following there, but they don't get out of their area much. CZW would definitely be regional all considered, PWG either low level Cult or high Regional, I lean towards Cult because of the buzz they picked up once ROH's product started slipping

I dunno, PWG has some oomph/buzz behind it these days. Again, I go back to the casual fan. People like us know CZW well. At large? It's WWE, TNA, ROH, CHI, PWG, DGUSA, CZW, with the 3 after CHI arguable in any order..

Indiana is also hardly representative of the entire midwest. So far this year they've run 2 shows in Indiana and one in Ohio. CHI has run Ohio, Illinois twice, Indiana twice, Wisconsin, far more indicative of having a midwest presence.

They've also run more shows than CZW which I think can be size related too.

I don't see why CZW should be lowered to regional. They frequently run in PA, NJ, DE, IN, OH, and have ran places such as MA, NC, Japan, Mexico, and Ireland in the past.

Because by and large they run out of the mid Atlantic area and aren't super well known. That's pretty spot on for a regional promotion.

I'm not seeing 73 and 70 based off of that match, a lot of his offence was not very crisp or fluid, very jittery. I'd say that's textbook okay/meh, so somewhere in the 50s or so highest I'd say.

I was thinking 5 myself, and we have to hit ROH's roster too I think. There might be a couple of guys in TNA who avoid the hit, Hogan being one of them, maybe Sting, but I haven't looked in depth enough yet.

I'd say AAA and CMLL could be right past the 10 marker, or right below (ROH also gets booted down to Cult in this scenario) and we could follow Mancuerda's idea for TNA (I think he said 50-60)

Here's the rub, though...

AAA and CMLL are "at war" with each other IRL... So, to be "at war" in the game (as we woud want to do in the name of realism) they'd have to be over that 10 image in National. IMO, they should also be above that 10 image enough that neither of them drop below it too soon after the game starts.

Putting AAA at 27 and CMLL at 24 National (in effect, dropping them both 30 points) would allow us to put TNA at 77 national and still have a 50 point gap, to prevent them from being at war with the Mexican companies. 32/29/82 would also be a possibility... Any higher or lower than that probably creates issues pretty early into a new game...

-Bill

The problem is for what it is I would say TNA and AAA and CMLL are fairly in the same spot in exposure in their nation. The two Mexico promotions and TNA have fairly close attendance. The problems with except for the fact TNA is American and not in a war with AAA/CMLL like they would be in the game. I guess we could have TNA higher (due to the international exposure) but the problem lies with the fact if it is in the 80's you have the level increase and then the overness boost to go with it. I think even 75 could do that. I would put TNA at 70% awareness for a National promotion, AAA and CMLL at 25 and 23.

For ROH I would put it at 75 for cult. I would lower DGUSA's exposure to 50 (it is not as big as ROH and I would not put it with in 25 spots of ROH). CHIKARA is fine at 37. After looking at PWG I think 8 cult would be fine. CZW and PWS should both be lowered to Regional I would put CZW at 85 and PWS at 65.

Hear, hear.

Well, to an extent. We run into the 50 point warring difference issue Bill likes in this case. I think 45 difference would be good enough though as you posit. What about lowering 25 and 23 to 22 and 20 so it's 70/22/20? Would that work for you and Bill? 48 points between TNA and the higher of the 2, and 10 points between the buffer and the lower number. Something around these lines though is perfect.

I could also flip Chikara and DGUSA, but it's not something I'd be married to.

Bill, if I remember correctly, national promotions only go to war with each other if they're in the same COUNTRY. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think TNA would be at war with anyone if they're at, say, 60% national. That's a 40% increase before they get to Global, which would take several months at least in theory, or could take longer if it's a tougher market, a higher difficulty setting, or injuries/signings by other promotions take place.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm wrong, lol.

I just finished starting a new game to test, dang it!

I'd say AAA and CMLL could be right past the 10 marker, or right below (ROH also gets booted down to Cult in this scenario) and we could follow Mancuerda's idea for TNA (I think he said 50-60)

Here's the rub, though...

AAA and CMLL are "at war" with each other IRL... So, to be "at war" in the game (as we woud want to do in the name of realism) they'd have to be over that 10 image in National. IMO, they should also be above that 10 image enough that neither of them drop below it too soon after the game starts.

Putting AAA at 27 and CMLL at 24 National (in effect, dropping them both 30 points) would allow us to put TNA at 77 national and still have a 50 point gap, to prevent them from being at war with the Mexican companies. 32/29/82 would also be a possibility... Any higher or lower than that probably creates issues pretty early into a new game...

-Bill

I think either one of those would work, how much do you want the buffer to be for the lower of the 2, 10 points above the 10? (IE: 20)

I mean, I think the only reason they were so high was because they are above ROH (still would be) and we didn't want them warring with ROH. And this way they are part of the readjustment to an extent, but actually stay National.

I'd say AAA and CMLL could be right past the 10 marker, or right below (ROH also gets booted down to Cult in this scenario) and we could follow Mancuerda's idea for TNA (I think he said 50-60)

I honestly don't know the best way to handle the 3-6 point overness boost the promotion gives to its workers once it moves up a level. I just think it's weird that you have TNA as a global promotion when virtually none of its main eventers (real ones, not the guys like Hardy, Kurt, Sting, Hogan, or RVD... but the world title contenders like Roode, Aries, Storm, AJ, Joe, etc.) are over enough to support that. While, yes, they do broadcast internationally and have a prime time TV show, they aren't exactly housing global talent. I don't think the promotion is bigger than its stars, considering guys like Christian and Matt Morgan have left TNA because they wanted to be bigger stars in WWE.

The same goes for RoH... they have a late night syndicated TV show and none of their superstars are over enough to even be a main eventer in a national promotion. So I don't see how they're national. I hate arguing with you, Bill, but I'm just trying to lay it out to express my view point. This will probably be the last time, though, as I know how annoying it can be to sift through repeated points and thoughts... but I tried to lay it out as plainly as possible.

I think there's some point to the placement argument, but at the same time, those guys were previously in the main event scene and they've since been moved out to bring up the new guys in TNA so I dunno how well that related to the TNA argument.

Heh, touche. The only thing currently I could say is apply a uniform 6 across the board, but that all depends on if people would be okay with that.

I'm seeing a boost of 3-6 all over. It's not uniform, but a deviation of only 3 should be easy enough to control for.

Although, it could be argued that ROH's TV deal and being the clear cut number 3, at least heard of by most casual fans sets them apart, but they're as close to National as they are to Cult I think anyway.