2008/2009 Hockey Thread v2.0

[Enter Blue Guy]

It's a no brainer the Habs are above the Leafs in terms of history and a tradition of winning, above everybody else. There is more respect for the Habs franchise than the Leafs, no argument. As there should be. As liberal as I try to be, I can't deny that the Toronto Maple Leafs are the most visible hockey franchise in the world with a following the is second to none. Which fanbase is more diehard and passionate? There is no fucking way to have that debate, nor is it really relevant to this, but there is no team in hockey team with more eyes on them than the Leafs. Hockey fans all over either love or hate the Leafs. Nobody can deny that the Habs are the gold standard in terms of hockey greatness. Every fan should know that and acknowledge it. For some reason, they are very much a cult fanbase outside of their area.

It seems like the history of failure, along with the desperation, but lack of change over the years in Toronto has rivaled that of the illustrious history of legendary hockey in Montreal. Right now, the prospect of bringing the Leafs back to glory has become a bigger deal to hockey than the celebration of Montreal's legacy of past success. Sad, but true. Well, I live in Toronto, so not that sad for me really.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Enter Blue Guy

[Cactus Drags]

Toronto are certainly the most visible over here, I've seen two hockey jerseys that I can remember in recent weeks (which is surprising enough), both were Maple Leafs.

[RoyWill Rumble]

Basha, shut the fuck up. Toronto is the hockey capital of Canada, and possibly the league. Deal with it and stop making Habs fans look like even more of the arrogant pricks than they are.

[The Sultan of Swank]

EBG brings up a good point. Toronto certainly has a huge fanbase, and dare I say it, Larger than that of the Habs. Also, people do seem to love or hate the Leafs. But to call Toronto the Vatican City of hockey, or as Will! put it the hockey capital of Canada, and possibly the league... I take huge exception to.

The reason the Yankees are THE team in the MLB as an example is because of the rich history the team has in terms of success, what the team means to the city, the players and the personalities. Boston and New York have comparable fan bases, and everyone I know either loves or hates either team, but the reason that the Yankees are THE team is for the reasons stated above.

No other team in the league can come close to Montreal in that regard, and I think that only a complete fucking moron could ever argue against that. With 24 Cups, a 5 and 4 cup dynasty, players who changed the way the game was played, guys like Plante, Howie Morenz, Georges Vezina, Maurice Richard, Ken Dryden, Patrick Roy. Then just other absolutely legendary players like Beliveau, Lafleur, Harvey, Robinson. Look at the 1955 Richard Riot, how the entire city lives and breathes Canadiens for the past 100 years. There's no comparison, and that's what makes it THE team in the NHL no questions asked.

The league wouldn't be the same without Toronto, this is a fact, but Toronto doesn't have the success or the history associated with the team the way Montreal does, so large fan base or not, opinion or not, they will always, always, be #2. It's not an insult, it's just the way it is due to the past 91 or so years of Hockey.

In response to Will! besides what was stated above, a poll asking people what's Canada's team is just a popularity contest, Toronto has the largest fanbase probably. Montreal is up there for sure, but there's enough people alone in southern Ontario to cheer for em.... unfortunately having enough people being able to click Toronto in an online poll doesn't make them #1... otherwise Koivu, Tanguay and Kovalev are in fact. The top 3 forwards in the Eastern Conference.

I don't care if it hurts to hear is from a Leafs fan point of view... you'd have to conceed that Montreal is THE team in the league. It's just how it is, and I think that rational people would agree, and not be bothered by that fact. Both teams have their own histories, the major difference being the incredible success of one team and the incredible success at making money of the other.

Finally, it doesn't make you look good, smart or prove any point by finishing a sentence with "Deal with it and stop making Habs fans look like even more of the arrogant pricks than they are." It makes you look like a spazzy 13 year old and well like an arrogant prick... sorry buddy.

Edited December 1, 2008 by The Sultan of Swank

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I might have to agree with Basha here. My school is a one-hour drive from Toronto (at most), and Habs fans seem to outnumber Leafs fans by quite a bit, as far as I can tell. The Leafs have a bigger fanbase overall, but the average Habs fan is far more into his team than the average Leafs fan.

The Leafs are probably the pinnacle of the NHL, though (unless you're French-Canadian), simply because it's the biggest media market.

[The Sultan of Swank]

See now I'm not arguing exposure at all. Toronto is a marketing machine. Fact. I was arguing whether Toronto is in fact the Vatican City of hockey as Burke described it, and I take exception to that comment.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I would argue that they are - the Habs are a bigger deal in Quebec then any team anywhere, but the Leafs would be considered the more prestigious team almost anywhere outside each teams' home bases - and I think the language issue has a lot to do with this, the Canadiens being looked at as a francophone institution for so long has led Anglos to think of them as Quebec's playtoy rather than acknowledge their real success.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Clawson wants me to give this list of Leaf legends and mention that the Rocket wasn't a point-per-game player:

The Kid Line

Tim Horton

Borje Salming

Dave Keon

George Armstrong

Daryl Sittler

Teeder Kennedy

Turk Broda

Doug Gilmour

[Enter Blue Guy]

The only way to settle this is by putting the Vatican somewhere in the middle. Like Kingston.

Of course Leaf fans still have edge because Doug Gilmour would be Pope.

Ok, so Toronto is the Capital of the hockey world. That's where shit gets done, where money and decisions are made. Montreal is the place you go to worship. It's hockey's equivalent to Mecca. The Hockey Hall of Fame remains neutral in this matter. Though MLSE would like to remind it is only 2 minutes away from their home base. And they are watching you.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Enter Blue Guy

[Toe]

Who cares which city is the bigger hockey city?

Brian Burke has asked the Ducks for permission to talk to Dave Nonis, so it looks like he is trying to get the band back together.

[Plubby]

And then he will trade for Bertuzzi

[Gabriel]

And then he will trade for Bertuzzi

He can't have him.

Bert's been a great fit in Calgary... but he was being penalized so much that he's afraid to drive into the crease with the puck now. I noticed this last night against Vancouver... on a play where he would have taken the puck straight to the net at the beginning of the year, he stopped up and passed it instead.

I'll admit that a lot of the time, he does draw the penalty... but there have been numerous incidents where it's been called simply because of the stigma that surrounds him. I realize that happens to players all over the league, so I won't complain... I just wish it wouldn't rape his confidence like it has. We didn't sign him to make safe plays... we signed him to drive the net, make life hard for the other team and put up points. I don't care if he's a minus player if he's doing what he was brought in to do.

[Plubby]

Burke will have you slugged for that attitude.

[SeanDMan]

So basically Toronto is the Vatican, home of old men trying desperately to cling to the past, and Montreal is Mecca, home of foul smelling, foreign language speaking terrorists.

[IAceI]

My analogy is that the Maple Leafs are kinda like the Dallas Cowboys of the NHL.

Reason enough for me to hate them, but are probably the biggest average team (although I'm sure the Rangers will get some exposure abroad simply for being in New York, and the Islanders sucking means people just go for the Rangers.)

Although I have to say the hockey fanbase in Britain it seems is absolute minute. Compared to an NFL at least, which looks massive in comparison yet is still tiny itself for the most part.

Although I think their may be a little half and half involved as well. I reckon the Leafs and Habs are massive teams partly thanks to each other and the long standing rivalry between them.

Just my thoughts without overly caring too much being from England an all, I probably have a limited knowledge anyways for things to do with Canada.

[Cactus Drags]

It'sw eird, we have pro hockey here, and the amateur yank football game has pretty much died off in recent years, yet no one gives a shit about hockey and hundreds of thousands tune in for the NFL games each week, and probably about 12 on average subscribe to NASN and actually watch the NHL.

[IAceI]

I'd subscribe too but I can watch the games online when they're played rather than a day late. But it looked really good, I went on and on about getting NASN but we never got it, now I have CFB and NHL at my fingertips should I need to.

But yeah, the hockey things odd because we have our own league that's on television but if you were to ask a random person to name as many hockey teams and as many american football teams as they could they'd struggle to name many if any hockey teams.

And I honestly can't figure out why hockey has zero following in the country.

[The Sultan of Swank]

K, so point mooted, but just gotta throw something out there.

Clawson, if you are doubting the legendary status of Rocket Richard because he wasn't a point per game player than you are a moron. All of your arguments are about numbers, you try to tell me that the Leafs fans are the most passionate because they always show up even when the team sucks, but then why is the ACC almost as quiet as say the Xcel Energy Center.

On the topic of Richard, I'll leave my stupid Habs bias out of this, besides how incredibly dense you'd have to be to doubt his absolute importance and greatness in the league... why would of all publications the Hockey News rate him as the #5 player of all time? Hmm, might have something to do with him being THE player of the 40's, 50's, setting the gold standard for goal scoring, being the Babe Ruth of Hockey and an all around absolute Legend of the Sport.

It's amazing that you, a huge hockey fan would say something like that.

[gunnar hendershow]

If you're having a debate of most popular hockey franchises, you have to keep the size of the Detroit fanbase in mind. I know at least in the United States there are always Wings fans at any away game they play.

Edited December 1, 2008 by damshow

[The Sultan of Swank]

I'm not debating popularity. I'm debating importance.