TEW13 Real World Update: March 2015

[rdylanm01]

Renee Young is dating Jon Moxley

EDIT: Uhaa Nation has signed with NXT.

Edited March 5, 2015 by rdylanm01

[92sipa]

Eric Young is not part of the BDC

And Crazzy Steve is not a heel.

Matt Hardy is missing from the roster.

Edited March 6, 2015 by 92sipa

[rdylanm01]

Just a small thing. Jeff Hardy and Matt Hardy autoname to Jeff Hardy & Matt Hardy instead of The Hardys.

[matbar]

With Bill Demott stepping down, and Albert taking over as head trainer, I have always had the problem of Albert asking to be called up because he isn't a trainer. I've been going through, and I can't fingure out the way to change this, but maybe up his booking stats, and making him the booker of NXT? That would be my suggestion at least.

[The TomXo]

Thanks for this month update. I found a thing i think it has to change: The Wolves (American Wolves) are in medium experience as Tag Team, i think it has to be in Maximum, they are team since 2008. Just that. Thanks again.

[Marsl]

I agree with star quality. It improves some over time but not as much that a "0" as a base would be useful. I would set the base somewhere between 40-50.

I have been planning on doing a mass stat edit for a while, helf off until TEW13 since you can do it in seconds rather than go through each profile and I was working on using a base level of 40.

At the moment this is how the superstar quality levels look above 40

Male

100 - Dwayne Johnson

100 - Shawn Michaels

100 - Steve Austin

90 - Andre the Giant

90 - Antonio Inoki

90 - Bret Hart

90 - Brock Lesnar

90 - Eddie Guerrero

90 - Edge / Adam Copeland

90 - Hulk Hogan

90 - Jeff Hardy

90 - John Cena

90 - Keiji Mutoh

90 - Kenta Kobashi

90 - Kurt Angle

90 - Mitsuhara Misawa

90 - Paul Levesque

90 - Randy Savage

90 - Rey Mysterio

90 - Sting

90 - Undertaker / Mark Calaway

80 - Alberto Del Rio / Dos Caras Jr

80 - Big Show / Paul Wight

80 - Bill Goldberg

80 - Chris Jericho

80 - CM Punk

80 - Dave Batista

80 - El Hijo del Santo

80 - Hiroshi Tanahashi

80 - Jerry Lawler

80 - Jushin Liger

80 - Kave / Glenn Jacobs

80 - Mick FOley

80 - Mil Mascaras

80 - Randy Orton

80 - Ric Flair

80 - Rob Van Dam

70 - Adam Cole

70 - AJ Styles

70 - Booker T

70 - Bryan Danielson

70 - Chris Benoit

70 - Christian Cage

70 - Dolph Ziggler / Nick nemeth

70 - Dr Wagner Jr

70 - Great Khali / Dalip Singh

70 - Jeff Jarrett

70 - John Morrison / John Hennigan

70 - Kazuchika Okada

70 - Kevin Nash

70 - Kevin Steen

70 - LA Park

70 - Masahiro Chono

70 - Matt Morgan

70 - Mistico I

70 - Sami Zayn / El Generico

70 - Scott Steiner

70 - Shinsuke Nakamura

70 - Silver King

70 - The Miz / Mike Mizanin

70 - Ultimo Dragon

70 - Yuji Nagata

60 - Austin Aries

60 - Averno

60 - Bob Sapp

60 - Bobby Lashley

60 - Bobby Roode

60 - Bubba Dudley / Mark LoMonaco

60 - Chris Hero

60 - Christopher Daniels

60 - Cibernetico

60 - D-Von Dudley / Devon Hughes

60 - Damien Sandow / Aaron Stevens

60 - Genichiro Tenryu

60 - Hiroyoshi Tenzan

60 - Jack Swagger / Jake Hager

60 - James Storm

60 - John Layfield

60 - Jun Akiyama

60 - Kensuke Sasaki

60 - Kenta

60 - Kyle O'Reilly

60 - Low Ki

60 - Magnus / Nick Aldis

60 - Mark Henry

60 - Mr Anderson

60 - Naomichi Marufuji

60 - Nigel McGuinness

60 - Riki Choshu

60 - Roman Reigns / Joe Anoai

60 - Ryback / Ryan Reeves

60 - Samoa Joe

60 - Satoru Sayama

60 - Seth Rollins / Tyler Black

60 - Sheamus O'Shaynessy

60 - Steven Regal

60 - Takeshi Morishima

60 - Toshiaki Kawada

60 - Ultimo Guerrero

50 - Abyss

50 - Adam Rose / Dameon Duke

50 - Adrian Neville / Pac

50 - Big E / Ettore Ewen

50 - Billy Gunn / Monty Sopp

50 - Bo Dallas / Taylor Rotunda

50 - Bray Wyatt / Windham Rotunda

50 - Chavo Guerrero Jr

50 - Chris Sabin

50 - CIMA

50 - Colt Cabana

50 - Curtis Axel / Joe Hennig

50 - Darren Young / Fred Sampson

50 - Davey Richards

50 - David Finlay

50 - David Otunga

50 - Dean Ambrose / Jon Moxley

50 - EC3 / Michael Hutter

50 - Eddie Edwards

50 - Eric Young

50 - Erick Rowan / Thoruf Marius

50 - Fandango / Johnny Curtis

50 - Fergal Devitt

50 - Go Shiozaki

50 - Goldust / Dustin Rhodes

50 - Great Sasuke

50 - Gunner / Phil Shatter

50 - Heath Slater / Heath Miller

50 - Jason Albert / Matt Bloom

50 - Jey Uso / Joshua Fatu

50 - Kofi Kingston

50 - Koji Kanemoto

50 - Luke Harper / Brodie Lee

50 - Matt Hardy

50 - Matt Sydal

50 - Mike Knox

50 - MVP

50 - Nick Dinsmore

50 - R-Truth / Ron Killings

50 - Raven

50 - Road Dogg / Brian Armstrong

50 - Rob Terry

50 - Rusev / Miroslav Barnyashev

50 - Satoshi Kojima

50 - Sean Waltman

50 - Shinjiro Otani

50 - Spud

50 - Tiger Mask IV

50 - Titus O'Neal / Thaddeus Bullard

50 - Tyson Kidd / TJ Wilson

50 - Volador Jr

50 - Wade Barrett / Stu Sanders

50 - Yoshihiro Tajiri

50 - Zack Ryder / Brett Major

Female

60 - AJ Lee / Miss April

60 - Brie Bella / Brianna Garcia

60 - Io Shirai

60 - Jessicka Havok

60 - Lana / CJ Perry

60 - Leva Bates

60 - Mio Shirai

60 - Nikki Bella / Nicole Garcia

60 - Paige / Britani Knight

50 - Alicia Fox / Victoria Crawford

50 - Angelina Love / Angel Williams

50 - Eva Marie

50 - Gail Kim

50 - Layla El

50 - Madison Rayne / Ashley Lane

50 - Mia Yim

50 - Nattie Neidhart

50 - Summer Rae / Danielle Moinet

50 - Taryn Terrell

50 - Velvet Sky / Talia Madison

EDIT

And this is the current set up for Sex Appeal

Male

90 - Dwayne Johnson

80 - John Morrison / John Hennigan

70 - Adam Cole

70 - Chris Jericho

70 - Shawn Michaels

60 - Jeff Hardy

60 - John Cena

60 - Matt Jackson

60 - Nick Jackson

60 - Randy Orton

50 - Dave Batista

50 - Dolph Ziggler / Nick Nemeth

Female

90 - AJ Lee / Miss April

90 - Brooke Adams

90 - Kelly Kelly / Barbie Blank

90 - Maryse Ouellet

90 - Stacy Keibler

90 - Trish Stratus

90 - Velvet Sky / Talia Madison

85 - Angelina Love / Angel Williams

80 - Brie Bella / Brianna Garcia

80 - Candice Michelle

80 - Eve Torres

80 - Lana / CJ Perry

80 - Michelle Mccool

80 - Mickie James

80 - Nikki Bella / Nicole Garcia

80 - Taryn Terrell

70 - Alicia Fox / Victoria Crawford

70 - Allysin Kay

70 - Dixie Carter

70 - Gail Kim

70 - Hannah Blossom

70 - Holly Blossom

70 - Jessie Mckay

70 - Kaitlyn / Celeste Bonin

70 - Katie Lea / Katarina Leigh

70 - Layla El

70 - Lita / Amy Dumas

70 - Madison Rayne / Ashley Lane

70 - Maria Kanellis

70 - Paige / Britani Knight

70 - Sara Jay

70 - Shanna

70 - Torrie Wilson

60 - Askana / Zivile Raudoniene

60 - Beth Phoenix

60 - Cheerleader Melissa

60 - Emma / Tenille Tayla

60 - Eva Marie

60 - Heidi Lovelace

60 - Io Shirai

60 - Kana

60 - Leva Bates

60 - Melina Perez

60 - Mia Yim

60 - Mio Shirai

60 - Nicole Matthews

60 - Reby Sky

60 - Sarah Stock

60 - Sexy Star

60 - Stephanie McMahon

60 - Summer Rae / Danielle Moinet

60 - Victoria / Lisa Marie Varon

50 - Jessicka Havok

50 - Tamina / Sarona Snuka

I think the game would feel more authentic with attributes level in 5 steps, not 10 steps.

I agree that the 90s should be reserved for the best of the best, but a lot of the international talents (nakamura, tanahashi) belongs there as well.

If you like, I would try my best to make such a list for the european talent in the data.

Also, the personalities are a problem we NEED to tackle asap!

[The TomXo]

I was just playing the game with the mod and i saw that the wrestler "Azrieal" has his nationality: Argentinian, but in the description of the wrestler says he is from Queens, New York. So.. if it matters change it to American. Only that. ¡Great to see Hip Hop Man in the database!!

[lanky316]

Something I've meant to do for a while, quick run through on a few British companies, I'll build to this over time but I'm far too slow. I know you're tweaking other bits and bobs but it will go together with time. I'll start off with a few notes on Southside. Spoilered for brevity.

Product - change women to integrated. They don't use too many girls but they tend to mix around, Candice LeRea, Kay Lee Ray, Nikki Storm and Nixon Newell have all fought amongst the male roster.

I would raise comedy to Very Low, although it's not really their main target audience they would regularly put on the odd comedy match for the kids with Mad Man Manson before his retirement being a regular, the character "Loco Imbecil" and quite often using Flex Buffington. I'd also add hardcore to Low. They don't do too much of this but they occasionally push things - especially with a CZW link. There's been no ropes matches and barbed wire matches so would prepare elements of that.

They don't start with a referee, Joel Allen is their referee.

They also don't have any announcers. Dale Mills has just retired from wrestling who used to but I'm not sure who will be replacing him. His co announcer is Rob Maltman who is not in the DB yet but will stay on.

Rob Maltman

"Rob Maltman is "The voice of British Wrestling" and works on various radio stations around the UK. He is a backstage interviewer and ring announcer for various companies around the midlands."

Born June 1980 - (can't help with debut I'm afraid)

Regarding stats - I'd give him skills in that "okay" spectrum. Mic, Charisma, Acting, Announcing of around 40, good reputation and leave the rest irrelevant. Behaviour, I'm not particularly aware of any shenanigans so fairly down the middle on that.

Titles -

Speed King should be available for either gender, you've got Kay Lee Ray in as a former champion and she's been booked in rematches.

Heavyweight champion is Joseph Connors who became champion on the 1st March, add in a brief title reign for Robbie X also on the 1st March.

Could it be worth adding a second "Speed King Tournament" title? It's a fiddly situation to fit in due to the way that the title is carried forward into the tournament and whoever wins the tournament takes the belt with them at the end. A Main Event, "Speed King Tournament" title held over the Speed King event should allow it to stand as being that little more prestigious and the AI to book it roughly the way the real event is.

Events - Since Southside tend to do weekenders and aren't necessarily active all year it's hard for the game to recreate that. I would suggest a couple of their annual events to fill in your gaps. For example...

SWE - Raw Deal (January)

SWE - Battle of The Egos (February)

SWE - Supremacy (May)

SWE - Ill Manors (July)

SWE - Retribution (September)

They're shows that are annual events so it kind of fits in. To be pure they wouldn't be then but I think for the sake of at least giving them "accurate" events that's worth it.

Roster - Always hard to do properly because of the nature of UK indies but I'll work on trying to create a reasonable "normal" Southside show list

Kris Travis is their new Face authority figure, not entirely sure how to work this one. Add Cancer as a long term injury that prevents wrestling but still leaves them available for talking segments?

Remove Uhaa Nation.

Stixx recently returned as a Face. I'd leave him with the badass gimmick.

Remove Stevie Boy

Ryan Smile is a heel. I'd probably go with a cocky youth gimmick.

Robbie X quite often uses an underdog gimmick. Sort of switches with his current showstealer depending on match though so you choose.

Pete Dunne turned heel on Mark Andrews over the last weekender.

Paul Malen is a face. Can't really think of a suitable gimmick. I think I would go with an opportunist as it seems the direction he's going in. In is last match he kept cheating and then apologising saying he's just trying to win. Might revise this after seeing a bit more of his current arc.

Martin Kirby - Heel, either cocky or egomaniac

Mark Haskins is face. Probably Old School Face.

Kay Lee Ray turned heel. I think I'd go with a bitch gimmick as that seems how she's going in the "Righteous Army".

Jimmy Havoc is heel. Arrogant as per PROGRESS

Remove Grado

Remove Dan Maloney

I'd have Damian Dunne as a heel with his brother.

Remove Chris Brookes

Remove BT Gunn

Remove Bam Bam Barton

Adds Marty Scurll - Heel. Cocky.

I THINK that looks like a reasonable approximation of semi-regulars and longer term people they use. Can't think of any Southside regulars really missing from there with what they're doing at the moment.

Stables -

The Righteous Army

led Joseph Connors

Jimmy Havoc

Kay Lee Ray

I'd say all major members.

There is a fourth member called "The Pledge" but I don't really know what to do with him at the moment. Need to see more and find out more before I can really give you anything on that.

I think that will do for now. I'll have a look through the stats and moves and so on as well as scribbling down some notes to pop into the biographies for a future post.

[TheWho87]

I think the game would feel more authentic with attributes level in 5 steps, not 10 steps.

I agree that the 90s should be reserved for the best of the best, but a lot of the international talents (nakamura, tanahashi) belongs there as well.

If you like, I would try my best to make such a list for the european talent in the data.

Also, the personalities are a problem we NEED to tackle asap!

I agree also on using stages of 5, however when you are editing thousands of workers with stats all over the place I was working on a simplier out of 10 scale then adding the zero on the end.

As for the personalities I do agree, however before the current set up (where they are set as Normal Wrestlers as default), I was having them set as Company Man as default which gave every promotion a 100% backstage attitude, even for little indies. Due to the sliders I tend to stick to the templates just to make it easier although do change the libral setting for the death match guys.

[SirMichaelJordan]

IMO. I think you should mass edit all workers that are under the age of 40 (or full time active wrestlers) Phycology by 10.

Phycology is probably the only thing that is overly rated in the mod and it stands out because Physcolgy is a lost art in today's wrestling. Its glaring in the Indies where most matches are move after move and for the most time some of the matches come off as stunt work instead of workers telling stories. One guy that really stand out is ACH who has a 60 which is considered as an overall "decent" rating in TEW (according to search filters)

Someone like Adam Cole who is only about 25 have a Phycology of 60. That is slightly overrated considering a 66 (C+) at a small level company is considered great and will be able to use the "Call in Ring" booking decision without penalty. Also Sami Zayne (and all of the best under 40 young wrestlers) is a 80, Taker is a 90. That is too close of a gap considering 90 seem to be the max you gave workers which is not bad at all.

Edited March 7, 2015 by SirMichaelJordan

[TheWho87]

Sounds logical, the only downside is that a lot of people at the bottom end would drop from 40 to 30. Not that that is a problem I just tended to level Basics and Psychology together.

[lanky316]

The idea that everyone born after 1975 has no idea how to tell a story just seems illogical to me and to me just isn't true. If people can make a very good argument for everyone under the age of 40 failing to understand how to build to a hot tag or mount a comeback then by all means lower everyone but that a RoH champion might be rated "decent" doesn't seem too absurd to me. If nearly everyone in the game were rated in the 80's or 90's then there'd be a point but it doesn't seem particularly broken aside from haggling over people we like/don't like. I suspect 99% of people who touch a mod would argue for different stats for different people, it's why I hate trying to suggest stat changes.

[TheWho87]

I would say I'd rather have specific people pointed out to have their stats dropped rather than drop everyones.

I dont rush into mass edits so didnt change anything since I have been looking to adding in people from my "pics cut but not in database" folder, mostly to expand Europeans and Australiams.

Also feel free to make any stat change suggestions, if their out its better for discussion rather than sticking with my rather conservitave views on stats.

[SirMichaelJordan]

The idea that everyone born after 1975 has no idea how to tell a story just seems illogical to me and to me just isn't true. If people can make a very good argument for everyone under the age of 40 failing to understand how to build to a hot tag or mount a comeback then by all means lower everyone but that a RoH champion might be rated "decent" doesn't seem too absurd to me. If nearly everyone in the game were rated in the 80's or 90's then there'd be a point but it doesn't seem particularly broken aside from haggling over people we like/don't like. I suspect 99% of people who touch a mod would argue for different stats for different people, it's why I hate trying to suggest stat changes.

I did not say any of the sort...

Point is in TEW, you don't need to be a 80 to be consider to have good phycology, in fact to have a attribute to be considered "good" (according to filters) you only need a 66/C+ minumin. The idea of lowering someone translating into saying that a person suck is the reason why so many real world mods are inflated with high stats...

This is not EWR.

Mass edit made sense considering everyone is rated by scales and the scales seem to be from 1-10 and are put into a category. Every top full time wrestler that are considered good has a 80 for phycology then you have your next tier of workers. I agree with the tiers for the most part, the gap just isn't big enough from the new generation of workers to the old school. Plus it makes those old semi active and retire workers more valuable to the game as road agents, trainers, in-ring trainers.

Example. You mention that "decent" doesn't seem absurd to you for a top ROH talent (Cole), well the thing is, if you drop him to 50 (from 60) he will still be listed as "decent".

48/D+ (actually 47.1/D+) is the average in the game.

You can get a good idea of the scaling in the game by messing around with the quick set worker skill presets. "Strong" is a C minimum (60). "Excellent" (The highest) only need a B minimum (78).

Attribute levels (the levels you'll see if you play with Fog of War on) are listed as.

Abysmal

Very Weak

Weak

Below Average

Average

Above Average

Strong

Very Strong

Excellent

Edited March 7, 2015 by SirMichaelJordan

[lanky316]

The idea that everyone born after 1975 has no idea how to tell a story just seems illogical to me and to me just isn't true. If people can make a very good argument for everyone under the age of 40 failing to understand how to build to a hot tag or mount a comeback then by all means lower everyone but that a RoH champion might be rated "decent" doesn't seem too absurd to me. If nearly everyone in the game were rated in the 80's or 90's then there'd be a point but it doesn't seem particularly broken aside from haggling over people we like/don't like. I suspect 99% of people who touch a mod would argue for different stats for different people, it's why I hate trying to suggest stat changes.

I did not say any of the sort...

Except the part where you said to mass edit everyone under the age of 40 to have lower psychology. It's not in as many words but that's the suggestion you made.

Point is in TEW, you don't need to be a 80 to be consider to have good phycology, in fact to have a attribute to be considered "good" (according to filters) you only need a 66/C+ minumin. The idea of lowering someone translating into saying that a person suck is the reason why so many real world mods are inflated with high stats...

That's fine, people around the lower to mid 60s aren't "good", they're decent and those in that region are about right. Those who are on the better end of that scale should be around 60, you agree with me.

Mass edit made sense considering everyone is rated by scales and the scales seem to be from 1-10 and are put into a category. Every top full time wrestler that are considered good has a 80 for phycology then you have your next tier of workers. I agree with the tiers for the most part, the gap just isn't big enough from the new generation of workers to the old school. Plus it makes those old semi active and retire workers more valuable to the game as road agents, trainers, in-ring trainers.

No, mass editing really didn't make sense. The suggestion that everyone under the age of 40 are automatically several tiers below people over is just silly. Looking through highest rated matches and although it's subjective the age isn't really a factor. CM Punk and Samoa Joe were having phenomenal 5* rated matches for Ring of Honor in their mid 20s. You may not rate them per se, but it doesn't mean that they can't do the required job. Jake Roberts is widely accepted as one of the all time greats for ring psychology and he was only 31 when he had his brilliant feud with Macho Man and was a washed up mess by the time he was 40 due to the myriad of demons he had. He only really had about 5/6 years at the top level.

Example. You mention that "decent" doesn't seem absurd to you for a top ROH talent (Cole), well the thing is, if you drop him to 50 (from 60) he will still be listed as "decent".

48/D+ (actually 47.1/D+) is the average in the game.

You can get a good idea of the scaling in the game by messing around with the quick set worker skill presets. "Strong" is a C minimum (60). "Excellent" (The highest) only need a B minimum (78).

Yes, and a 25 year old who is rated as one of the 10 best wrestlers in the world* at the moment is someone who I'm sure is a good contender to be rated Strong and on the upper level of that standard. There would be an argument possibly for raising that but I personally think 60 at this stage in his career is about right. Of the top 10, 5 of them are under 30, 1 is over 40. Number 1 is 33.

*according to PWI500, I know it's not 110% reliable but it's not too far out and a general gauge of the wrestling industry. It at least shows people who are amongst the most highly regarded even if you don't agree with the specifics.

Edited March 7, 2015 by lanky316

[SirMichaelJordan]

The idea that everyone born after 1975 has no idea how to tell a story just seems illogical to me and to me just isn't true. If people can make a very good argument for everyone under the age of 40 failing to understand how to build to a hot tag or mount a comeback then by all means lower everyone but that a RoH champion might be rated "decent" doesn't seem too absurd to me. If nearly everyone in the game were rated in the 80's or 90's then there'd be a point but it doesn't seem particularly broken aside from haggling over people we like/don't like. I suspect 99% of people who touch a mod would argue for different stats for different people, it's why I hate trying to suggest stat changes.

I did not say any of the sort...

Except the part where you said to mass edit everyone under the age of 40 to have lower psychology. It's not in as many words but that's the suggestion you made.

Point is in TEW, you don't need to be a 80 to be consider to have good phycology, in fact to have a attribute to be considered "good" (according to filters) you only need a 66/C+ minumin. The idea of lowering someone translating into saying that a person suck is the reason why so many real world mods are inflated with high stats...

That's fine, people around the lower to mid 60s aren't "good", they're decent and those in that region are about right. Those who are on the better end of that scale should be around 60, you agree with me.

Mass edit made sense considering everyone is rated by scales and the scales seem to be from 1-10 and are put into a category. Every top full time wrestler that are considered good has a 80 for phycology then you have your next tier of workers. I agree with the tiers for the most part, the gap just isn't big enough from the new generation of workers to the old school. Plus it makes those old semi active and retire workers more valuable to the game as road agents, trainers, in-ring trainers.

No, mass editing really didn't make sense. The suggestion that everyone under the age of 40 are automatically several tiers below people over is just silly. Looking through highest rated matches and although it's subjective the age isn't really a factor. CM Punk and Samoa Joe were having phenomenal 5* rated matches for Ring of Honor in their mid 20s. You may not rate them per se, but it doesn't mean that they can't do the required job. Jake Roberts is widely accepted as one of the all time greats for ring psychology and he was only 31 when he had his brilliant feud with Macho Man and was a washed up mess by the time he was 40 due to the myriad of demons he had. He only really had about 5/6 years at the top level.

Example. You mention that "decent" doesn't seem absurd to you for a top ROH talent (Cole), well the thing is, if you drop him to 50 (from 60) he will still be listed as "decent".

48/D+ (actually 47.1/D+) is the average in the game.

You can get a good idea of the scaling in the game by messing around with the quick set worker skill presets. "Strong" is a C minimum (60). "Excellent" (The highest) only need a B minimum (78).

Yes, and a 25 year old who is rated as one of the 10 best wrestlers in the world* at the moment is someone who I'm sure is a good contender to be rated Strong and on the upper level of that standard. There would be an argument possibly for raising that but I personally think 60 at this stage in his career is about right. Of the top 10, 5 of them are under 30, 1 is over 40. Number 1 is 33.

*according to PWI500, I know it's not 110% reliable but it's not too far out and a general gauge of the wrestling industry. It at least shows people who are amongst the most highly regarded even if you don't agree with the specifics.

The idea that everyone born after 1975 has no idea how to tell a story just seems illogical to me and to me just isn't true. If people can make a very good argument for everyone under the age of 40 failing to understand how to build to a hot tag or mount a comeback then by all means lower everyone but that a RoH champion might be rated "decent" doesn't seem too absurd to me. If nearly everyone in the game were rated in the 80's or 90's then there'd be a point but it doesn't seem particularly broken aside from haggling over people we like/don't like. I suspect 99% of people who touch a mod would argue for different stats for different people, it's why I hate trying to suggest stat changes.

I did not say any of the sort...

Except the part where you said to mass edit everyone under the age of 40 to have lower psychology. It's not in as many words but that's the suggestion you made.

Point is in TEW, you don't need to be a 80 to be consider to have good phycology, in fact to have a attribute to be considered "good" (according to filters) you only need a 66/C+ minumin. The idea of lowering someone translating into saying that a person suck is the reason why so many real world mods are inflated with high stats...

That's fine, people around the lower to mid 60s aren't "good", they're decent and those in that region are about right. Those who are on the better end of that scale should be around 60, you agree with me.

Mass edit made sense considering everyone is rated by scales and the scales seem to be from 1-10 and are put into a category. Every top full time wrestler that are considered good has a 80 for phycology then you have your next tier of workers. I agree with the tiers for the most part, the gap just isn't big enough from the new generation of workers to the old school. Plus it makes those old semi active and retire workers more valuable to the game as road agents, trainers, in-ring trainers.

No, mass editing really didn't make sense. The suggestion that everyone under the age of 40 are automatically several tiers below people over is just silly. Looking through highest rated matches and although it's subjective the age isn't really a factor. CM Punk and Samoa Joe were having phenomenal 5* rated matches for Ring of Honor in their mid 20s. You may not rate them per se, but it doesn't mean that they can't do the required job. Jake Roberts is widely accepted as one of the all time greats for ring psychology and he was only 31 when he had his brilliant feud with Macho Man and was a washed up mess by the time he was 40 due to the myriad of demons he had. He only really had about 5/6 years at the top level.

Example. You mention that "decent" doesn't seem absurd to you for a top ROH talent (Cole), well the thing is, if you drop him to 50 (from 60) he will still be listed as "decent".

48/D+ (actually 47.1/D+) is the average in the game.

You can get a good idea of the scaling in the game by messing around with the quick set worker skill presets. "Strong" is a C minimum (60). "Excellent" (The highest) only need a B minimum (78).

Yes, and a 25 year old who is rated as one of the 10 best wrestlers in the world* at the moment is someone who I'm sure is a good contender to be rated Strong and on the upper level of that standard. There would be an argument possibly for raising that but I personally think 60 at this stage in his career is about right. Of the top 10, 5 of them are under 30, 1 is over 40. Number 1 is 33.

*according to PWI500, I know it's not 110% reliable but it's not too far out and a general gauge of the wrestling industry. It at least shows people who are amongst the most highly regarded even if you don't agree with the specifics.

You totally miss the point. And I am not saying the rating should be based on age... Its a poplar opinion that phycology in today's wrestling is a lost art, its a rare attribute to have these days and it should be reflected in a mod that is trying to replicate the modern era.

and FYI having a 5 star match doesn't translate into having high phycology. other things like Basics, Consistency and In Ring Skills factor in. You're opinions are coming from "this is how I feel" rather "this is how the game is designed to work".

Example of that is "a 60 is not good" which is false considering we were talking about indy wrestlers. a 60 for someone is a decent rating in a company like WWE but its a great rating for a small company and 66 at a small company is equivalent to someone with rating of 80+ in WWE as they will be able to call the match and get a bonus. Again this is not EWR.

For reference

Psychology: This is the ability of the wrestler to get the fans into the story of the match. The story is whatever is defined by the booking, the characters involved and generally anything else going on around it. Being able to tell this story via the way the match unfolds is a universally desired skill in wrestling and it is one of the key things in the difference between a star and a superstar. Being able to mesh the characters of everyone involved in a match, pace the match to tell a story and hook the crowd from start to finish is the hallmark of this particular stat. It’s also one of the things most talked about by veterans as being something of a lost art. Most wrestlers know the idea of “Shine-Heat-Comeback-Finish” as how to build a match but being able to tell a ide variety of stories is the most important skill in a match. Without this, it doesn’t matter how good you are in the ring, you’ll lose something. In every match that goes down in legend, there is at least one person in there with a huge psychology rating. Ric Flair was great at it (about 100). Hulk Hogan was better at it than I’m generally willing to admit (90ish). The Undertaker is a master of it (about 100), able to get a great match out of everyone by meshing the characters together perfecttly (his match with Festus is still an awesome example of this). Shawn Michaels is another guy who was awesome with everyone because he could tell a story with anyone, another guy close to 100 and the reason why he has so many Match Of The Year awards (thanks to awesome stats across most other areas too). Of the current generation of wrestlers I would say this is a stat that is a little lacking, and that’s one of the reasons why there are so few breakout superstars. John Cena follows in the Hogan cast of psychology but isn’t as good at it (low 80s). CM Punk is probably WWE’s best and I’d only put him in the mid 80s. Chris Jericho is talented but again, probaly the mid 80s. Randy Orton, as much as I don’t find him very interesting, is someone who I would put at about 80. Triple H… he’s a guy that has a lot of talent but that has never been able to carry anyone to a legendary match, he’s in the low 80s for me too. Edge is another guy who I feel took so long to truly breakout because his psychology wasn’t strong enough. Good skills in most areas, but wasn’t quite able to have the amazing matches that would put him over the top. Daniel Bryan is sitting somewhere in the 80s range, though I’m not sure exactly where I’d place him. Christian Cage is probably WWE’s most under-rated in this regard, with him being someone I’d put in the mid 80s for psychology but who lacks a little in other areas and has probably his his popularity cap at B-, forever stopping him becoming as big a star as his talents would let him. As for TNA… one of the reasons Sting is still a wrestler is because he has good psychology, probably in the high 80s but he’s also in Time Decline and not able to get the most out of himself any more. Kurt Angle is someone I’d put in the mid 80s, maybe even the high 80s as he is able to have some very good matches against everyone. Bully Ray I would have in the low 80s/high 70s as he’s always been able to work well with people and has truly begun to show that he is capable of doing so in singles. As for TNA homegrown stars, AJ Styles is a mid 70s kind of guy, Samoa Joe is probably mid/high 70s while Christoper Daniels is a very solid hand in this regard and likely close to an 80. Daniels is a good all rounder, but is just missing something that stops him becoming a star even though he is so very good. Aries is very good here too, always able to create a match that works well with whoever he is against though I’d place him in the low/mid 70s. Bobby Roode is in a similar range as Aries for the same reason, as is James Storm and Abyss.

I had to break up that paragraph as it was getting unwieldy. In general, psychology is a trait that can only be learned through being in the ring and wrestling a lot. Unless a rookie has shown an incredible aptitude for pro wrestling, this stat is rarely going to even be above a 50 when they debut. Breaking the 70 barrier is fairly uncommon and that is why it’s so important to find people who can teach psychology. Veterans, particularly those from the old territory days, have worked squillions of matches and have worked against hundreds or thousands of people so they know how to adapt and to work with all sorts. This is what gives people the ability to use “Call In Ring” during a match, being able to use what they’ve learned to react to the live crowd and make the most of any reactions they get. In the days of heavily scripted TV and decreasing input from individual performers in storylines, the art of psychology is becoming lost. And in a real world mod this should also be the case. It adds huge value to a worker with big psychology, which adds another layer of strategy and realism when playing, something that is lost if a mod over-rated everyone. As for lesser workers, it’s often hard to tell how good they are. I remember one match recently in TNA featuring Robbie E/Rob Terry vs Wes Brisco/Garrett Bischoff before they joined Aces and Eights. It was the best all of those guys have looked in ages and I have to assume that it’s because Robbie E put a lot of it together, along with the TNA agents. And when I look at Robbie E now, I realise he has pretty good psychology when it comes to his matches… he’s just not very good in the top row and has a comedy gimimck that will keep him in the lower reaches of TNA forever given their product.

Edited March 7, 2015 by SirMichaelJordan

[lanky316]

The example you use of "60 is not good" is based on your own comment -

fact to have a attribute to be considered "good" (according to filters) you only need a 66/C+ minumin

Think about what YOU are saying, then maybe, just maybe, you will understand what is being said to you.

Your own post kind of proves my point anyway, Robbie E is 31, the post in question was made in late 2013 when he would have just turned 30. Hardly a veteran of the old days but with "pretty good psychology". It is not therefore out of his own advice to put some of the better workers on a borderline position, something like 60 seems reasonable enough within the realms of the game for someone who is one of the top workers as far as basics and in ring ability but still has a lot to learn about this element of things. It's where the guidance of those Road Agents brings them up. They're fairly stand out in large elements but lacking that something. Since we're using Cole as an example - he's a young worker who after 8 years has worked all over the world and is widely regarded as one of the best despite his young years. He's worked with some great people both in the ring and behind the scenes and is bound to have absorbed things from them, I'm sure you'll say Liger is shit but I'd trust in and around his matches with Cole they communicated at some point. In the note here, he says he'd give Christopher Daniels an 80, who has Cole been doing programs against for RoH on and off?

I'm only arguing the merits of one person here, because it's the example you bought forward, I don't know every single person in the world and you're going to be exactly the same. For that reason though I'm arguing against your blanket change, I think as a general rule of thumb the fairly conservative estimates given by TheWho in most stats helps some form of balance which creates a relatively accurate picture. It won't be perfect and people will haggle over details on it but it's not a bad reflection people are roughly where they should be for the most part. My personal opinion is that Jimmy Havoc could do with a boost, although he's not particularly mainstream I think he's charismatic - he only seems to need to look at people for them to want to dismember him - and is brilliant at telling a story in the ring - his recent Progress match against Will Ospreay is one of my favourite matches which told a compelling story I've seen for a few years - but someone else may think entirely the opposite.

[SirMichaelJordan]

The example you use of "60 is not good" is based on your own comment -

fact to have a attribute to be considered "good" (according to filters) you only need a 66/C+ minumin

Think about what YOU are saying, then maybe, just maybe, you will understand what is being said to you.

Your own post kind of proves my point anyway, Robbie E is 31, the post in question was made in late 2013 when he would have just turned 30. Hardly a veteran of the old days but with "pretty good psychology". It is not therefore out of his own advice to put some of the better workers on a borderline position, something like 60 seems reasonable enough within the realms of the game for someone who is one of the top workers as far as basics and in ring ability but still has a lot to learn about this element of things. It's where the guidance of those Road Agents brings them up. They're fairly stand out in large elements but lacking that something. Since we're using Cole as an example - he's a young worker who after 8 years has worked all over the world and is widely regarded as one of the best despite his young years. He's worked with some great people both in the ring and behind the scenes and is bound to have absorbed things from them, I'm sure you'll say Liger is shit but I'd trust in and around his matches with Cole they communicated at some point. In the note here, he says he'd give Christopher Daniels an 80, who has Cole been doing programs against for RoH on and off?

I'm only arguing the merits of one person here, because it's the example you bought forward, I don't know every single person in the world and you're going to be exactly the same. For that reason though I'm arguing against your blanket change, I think as a general rule of thumb the fairly conservative estimates given by TheWho in most stats helps some form of balance which creates a relatively accurate picture. It won't be perfect and people will haggle over details on it but it's not a bad reflection people are roughly where they should be for the most part. My personal opinion is that Jimmy Havoc could do with a boost, although he's not particularly mainstream I think he's charismatic - he only seems to need to look at people for them to want to dismember him - and is brilliant at telling a story in the ring - his recent Progress match against Will Ospreay is one of my favourite matches which told a compelling story I've seen for a few years - but someone else may think entirely the opposite.

Thats relative to a big company.

A 60 in a small company is not the same as a 60 in a big company...There are many bonuses that the game give for stats and some of the stats like phycology are relative to the segment grade when considering bonuses/penalties. Small companies aren't getting grades in the 80's like a WWE...

A 66 in a National level company is good while a 66 in a Small level company is excellent.

Works the same as having a E- company pulling out a E+ show grade, thats a great grade for that company but a terrible grade for someone much bigger.

I think thats the disconnect here.

Also, saying that Robbie E has a good rating in phycology stat doesn't mean he's getting a 70 or even a 80....First off all you'll notice the OP mention that he assume he had help from the bookers meaning that he do not believe Robbie was calling the match and second of all TNA is not that big of a company so a 60 would be a serviceable rating. Booby Roode was only a 70 in his eyes...

You'll notice not much if any all the top full time active wrestlers broke the 80's in his example. He gave veteran guys who were great in this area 100. 100/80 is pretty much the same gap of 90/70.

Whether there's a raise in veterans from the old school or a decrease in the new crop of worker, the original point was there needs to be a bigger gap between the two especially since the development area in the game has been patched since release.

Edited March 8, 2015 by SirMichaelJordan

[JCStensland15]

I just went through and made a list of people in ROH, TNA and WWE that were misaligned.

Christopher Daniels - Face

Frankie Kazarian - Face

Hanson - Face

Jay Briscoe - Face

Michael Bennett - Heel

Moose - Heel

Tommasso Ciampa - Face

Lashley - Face

Madison Rayne - Face

Magnus - Heel

BNB - Heel

Maddox - Heel

Cameron - Heel

Christian - Face

Goldust - Face

Natalya - Heel

Summer Rae - Heel

Tamina - Heel

Titus O'Neil - Face

[lanky316]

The example you use of "60 is not good" is based on your own comment -

fact to have a attribute to be considered "good" (according to filters) you only need a 66/C+ minumin

Think about what YOU are saying, then maybe, just maybe, you will understand what is being said to you.

Your own post kind of proves my point anyway, Robbie E is 31, the post in question was made in late 2013 when he would have just turned 30. Hardly a veteran of the old days but with "pretty good psychology". It is not therefore out of his own advice to put some of the better workers on a borderline position, something like 60 seems reasonable enough within the realms of the game for someone who is one of the top workers as far as basics and in ring ability but still has a lot to learn about this element of things. It's where the guidance of those Road Agents brings them up. They're fairly stand out in large elements but lacking that something. Since we're using Cole as an example - he's a young worker who after 8 years has worked all over the world and is widely regarded as one of the best despite his young years. He's worked with some great people both in the ring and behind the scenes and is bound to have absorbed things from them, I'm sure you'll say Liger is shit but I'd trust in and around his matches with Cole they communicated at some point. In the note here, he says he'd give Christopher Daniels an 80, who has Cole been doing programs against for RoH on and off?

I'm only arguing the merits of one person here, because it's the example you bought forward, I don't know every single person in the world and you're going to be exactly the same. For that reason though I'm arguing against your blanket change, I think as a general rule of thumb the fairly conservative estimates given by TheWho in most stats helps some form of balance which creates a relatively accurate picture. It won't be perfect and people will haggle over details on it but it's not a bad reflection people are roughly where they should be for the most part. My personal opinion is that Jimmy Havoc could do with a boost, although he's not particularly mainstream I think he's charismatic - he only seems to need to look at people for them to want to dismember him - and is brilliant at telling a story in the ring - his recent Progress match against Will Ospreay is one of my favourite matches which told a compelling story I've seen for a few years - but someone else may think entirely the opposite.

Thats relative to a big company.

A 60 in a small company is not the same as a 60 in a big company...There are many bonuses that the game give for stats and some of the stats like phycology are relative to the segment grade when considering bonuses/penalties. Small companies aren't getting grades in the 80's like a WWE...

A 66 in a National level company is good while a 66 in a Small level company is excellent.

Works the same as having a E- company pulling out a E+ show grade, thats a great grade for that company but a terrible grade for someone much bigger.

I think thats the disconnect here.

Also, saying that Robbie E has a good rating in phycology stat doesn't mean he's getting a 70 or even a 80....First off all you'll notice the OP mention that he assume he had help from the bookers meaning that he do not believe Robbie was calling the match and second of all TNA is not that big of a company so a 60 would be a serviceable rating. Booby Roode was only a 70 in his eyes...

You'll notice not much if any all the top full time active wrestlers broke the 80's in his example. He gave veteran guys who were great in this area 100. 100/80 is pretty much the same gap of 90/70.

Whether there's a raise in veterans from the old school or a decrease in the new crop of worker, the original point was there needs to be a bigger gap between the two especially since the development area in the game has been patched since release.

There is no sliding scale of psychology, every wrestler in the game is rated on the same 0-100 method so the size of the company is not REALLY a relative factor in things like psychology, Word of God has already explained that psychology effects don't really change from point to point and you'll be raised/dinged in the same way regardless of company size. If we take that 60 is slightly above average, the top independent wrestlers of the world can comfortably tell a decent/good story in a match and that would be covered by a 60. What will happen is that they will ultimately peter out at a lower peak without the guidance of the right people and that's right and realisitic. Most wrestlers improve and learn more by working more matches, including of course some with more experienced workers and working in different areas.

Who said Robbie E was a 70 or 80? What he said was that he must be pretty good, that would probably put him in at around 60 but it's hard to tell as he doesn't have many top row skills which is relatively understandable on the basis that the WWE head trainer until this week was someone who was never more than a midcard jobber to the stars, the replacement not reaching a much higher level. He probably has the help of an Agent (which 90% of matches in the world don't) but there's a reason TNA stuck a green Jessie and at times reckless Zema Ion with Robbie E, he plays the role of the vet and they're there to learn more from him.

Honestly though, if you're going to use exactly what Derek B was saying regarding those things you're getting nowhere. While it's a good general guide when he gives examples of skills it is entirely his own opinion piece. He rationalises why HE would put people at a certain figure but it is easily debatable as a lot of these things are. A blanket rise on Vet A because he's old, or a blanket drop on Seasoned Hand B because he's younger on an age plucked out of someones arse still makes no sense. What makes sense, and is right, is that not everybody will necessarily become a 100% psychological mastermind and less will do it without the right guidance but the people who can do that will vary. They may have a decent base but it's down to how they're handled if they're going to make the next big step up. Treat Adam Cole with his slightly above average psychology as the big vet and he won't get much farther, put him in the ring with more experienced opponents and he will get better. It's fairly straight forward and the mod generally represents that and ultimately it's small fry haggling over people we like and don't like.