The Mitchell Report

[sahyder1]

How does it not effect baseball? A first ballot HOFer got taken down today. Turns out he was on the stuff longer then Bonds allegedly was. Clemens was 40-39 is last 4 years with Boston and them look what happened. Gotta say though....Pedro who I say is the best pitcher of my life time goes up a few notches along with the likes of Schilling, Maddux and RJ today.

Edited December 14, 2007 by sahyder1

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Definitely a little narrow-minded there, sahyder.

There's no proof that any of the guys who went 'up' in your view aren't on the juice, they just don't happen to be among the names Mitchell caught.

Also, W-L is a terrible way to measure a pitchers' success - yes, Clemens suddenly became more dominant in Toronto (even though he wasn't on the juice until his second year there), but you have to remember that the Red Sox teams themselves weren't much better than .500, if memory serves.

As an aside, I love seeing the guys on battersbox.ca talking about how it seems like Toronto is some sort of 'haven' for steroids because of all the names in the report that at some point played for the team, ignoring the fact that I don't think more than three of those names were ever on the roster at the same time.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Mr. Potato Head

[thuganomic]

Jayson Stark makes an excellent point of how the so-called "evidence" against Clemens wouldn't hold up in any kind of court, so we're supposed to take the word of two criminals? I find it more sad than anything. Any time a legend gets "exposed" is a sad day for baseball and for baseball fans, especially when the "evidence" is inconclusive. It hurts even more when we'll probably never get a true answer.

And what will you say, sahyder, when another report is released and some of those names are on the list? This list is just that....a list of people (for the most part) who two people claim to have done steroids. Everyone on the list is not automatically guilty. Everyone not on the list is not automatically innocent. This affects baseball tremendously, but not just because some people were exposed as frauds.

[Lowerdeck]

The Red Sox won the AL East in 1995, the second to last year Clemens was in Boston.

[sahyder1]

If those names ever do appear on a list...then we'll have to rethink it at that time. The evidence against Clemens is just as shaky as the one against Bonds. Why is the testimony of the trainer any less credible then that of Bonds Mistress? In Bonds case it was a criminal and an ex giving statements. There are no canceled checks or anything like that from Bonds. Clemens couldn't even come out and deny the charges himself yesterday. Clemens #s even with the missed starts in those last 4 years are well above his career average in 3 of those last 4 years.

[Vendetta]

The thing about this report that really bothers me is that Mitchell stated at the begining of the conference that all of the names listed were accusations and that they had no real proof on anyone.

With that said, Why the fuck would you put those names out and ruin a players hall of fame career if you had no hard evidence at all? I mean he could still have released the report, but take the names out of it. I could understand if you had hard copy evidence but you don't.

[naiwf]

Pettitte admits briefly using HGH, apologizes

Dec. 15, 2007

CBSSports.com wire reports

NEW YORK -- Andy Pettitte used human growth hormone to recover from an elbow injury in 2002, the New York Yankees pitcher said two days after he was cited in the Mitchell Report.

Pettitte said he tried HGH on two occasions.

"If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize," Pettitte said Saturday in a statement released by his agent. "I accept responsibility for those two days."

[Thatz]

Yeah, props to Pettitte for being a man and admitting that he did wrong. That goes a long way towards his status with a lot of fans. One of the main reasons that some people hate guys like Bonds isn't because he used steroids, it's because he used steroids and refuses to admit that he did wrong.

[thuganomic]

If those names ever do appear on a list...then we'll have to rethink it at that time. The evidence against Clemens is just as shaky as the one against Bonds. Why is the testimony of the trainer any less credible then that of Bonds Mistress? In Bonds case it was a criminal and an ex giving statements. There are no canceled checks or anything like that from Bonds. Clemens couldn't even come out and deny the charges himself yesterday. Clemens #s even with the missed starts in those last 4 years are well above his career average in 3 of those last 4 years.

[sahyder1]

I agree with you. I've always said Bonds [and now Clemens] is a first ballot HOFer because of who he was pre 2001. He was already a HOFer by that point in my books. I'd vote for Clemens too as again....steroids and HGH were all over the place in the last 20 years so unless no one from the last 20 years is going in we have no other choice. Most HOF voters though don't agree with me and you. They are going to make an example out of these guys.

Yeah, Pettite "admitted" it....but it doesn't change anything in my books. Everyone here knows how much I HATE the Yanks....but Pettite has been one guy I've always liked. I don't if there is going to be any punishments handed out due to this report but I wouldn't go easy on someone just for the fact they admitted it.

"If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize," Pettitte said Saturday in a statement released by his agent. "I accept responsibility for those two days."

Edited December 16, 2007 by sahyder1

[Vendetta]

I also have no problem with athletes using steroids when recovering from injuries, especially those dealing with major bones in the body.

[CQI13]

So it's OK to steal from someone so you can start a savings account? Using steroids is illegal unless they're prescribed. And if they weren't illegal, but against the rules of the sport, it'd still be bad.

[Vendetta]

If its a legal perscription given to help heal broken bones, then I have no problem and say that a league should not be able to penalize a play for taking something to improve their health.

[sahyder1]

So how many people here watched that Clemens conference call? The call does nothing to change my view on Clemens. Brian McNamee comes across as a joke....but at no point in the call can you definitely say that Clemens in innocent. Read more on the call here. Only good thing Clemens did was agreeing to appear before congress.....not that he had much of a choice there anyways. When asked if steroid users are cheaters....he refused to say so. When asked about the HOF he said he doesn't care about the HOF which I don't believe. On the call McNamee repeatedly asks him what he should do......and Clemens not once asks him to retract his statement. To me all the taped conversation does is prove that McNamee is some loser trainer who feels bad he outed one of his clients.

[naiwf]

I didn't watch it but listened to it on WFAN. He sounded like a bully, McNamee sounded like a complete and utter loser and I'm just as convinced as ever that Clemens is guilty.

[gunnar hendershow]

Clemens sounds like one of those people who is just pulling out all the stops to try and prove his innocence to the people, without ever actually proving it entirely because he knows he's guilty.

[sahyder1]

Strange hearing. It is unbelievable that even a hearing on steroids has to be a partisan affair in congress. It seemed like the Democrats were basically questioning Clemens and the Republicans were questioning McNamee. I need to watch more of this tomorrow as I pretty much missed all of it today but Clemens does come out this looking pretty bad. The fact that his lawyers kept jumping in doesn't help his cause much. The fact that Andy Pettitte threw him under the bus doesn't help him much. Does he really expect people to believe that his wife got HGH....from this trainer no less....and he wasn't aware of it? I'm not saying McNamee is a saint....but I've always thought Clemens was a scum and he's proving me right every day. From the little that I saw of it today 2 congressmen stuck out as having done their work on this...and actually make it worthwile and they are Representative Elijah Cummings, D-Md and the chairman Representative Henry Waxman, D-CA. I will comment more on this tomorrow when hopefully I'll get a chance to catch more of this.

[gunnar hendershow]

Elijah Cummings is the man. He's by far the best representation Maryland has in Congress. He definitely's done his homework with all the steroid hearings.

[MalaCloudy Black]

I figured I'd bump this back up to mention that they're trying to get an investigation going in regards to whether or not Clemens committed perjury at his recent hearing.

[Guest Mr. T]

It's kinda weird really. You've got all these people saying Clemens took steroids, nobody else speaking up to defend Clemens (as in, with evidence)...yet because of his status, so many are still willing to believe him.