NFL 2008

[livid]

If anybody thinks that the Cowboys are one step away from the Super Bowl just needs to take a look at Week 17. They're talented, yes, but if you're a Super Bowl caliber team and you have to win the last week of the season to get into the playoffs, you do it. You don't basically no show and get your ass kicked by a team that wasn't supposed to be near the playoffs.

Talented or not, they're not a team; just a bunch of talented people disguised as a team.

Though I'd say their most consistent LB is Bradie James, not Thomas.

[alldaws1]

Yes, I do laugh at the implication that Dallas is a team that is a step away from the Super Bowl. Their coaching staff is a train wreck at best at the moment. Phillips is a joke, Garret was exposed, and depending on the decisions Jones makes with that from now until the summer the number of patches to be sewen into the quilt to hold it together.

Phillips isn't a joke, or are you just completely ignoring the 13-3 season last year, or the huge improvement on the defense since he took control mid-season this year?

The Cowboys aren't even built one way or another. They're just a bunch of guys thrown out there. Outside of RB there is absolutely zero depth at practically every position. Witten/Bennett are a great 1/2 TE combination but when that's the best part of your line you've got major issues.

It's the same offensive line as last season that sent so many to the Pro Bowl. Kosier's injury and the coaches' inability to stick with one guy as a replacement damaged it more than I think most people realise.

The thin line hops on over to defense as well.

Hmm, Chris Canty has proven to be a solid defensive end, not elite or anything but solid nontheless. Marcus Spears is improving and Jay Ratliff has turned out to be one of the better 3-4 nose tackles in the league.

Your most consistant linebacker was an on the verge of retirement concussion case.

Most consistent? Thomas was probably our worst starting linebacker this season. Ware, James, Ellis, even Burnett and Spencer have improved a fair chunk.

The secondary can't stay on the field long enough for even the superstar to be more than decent.

Well if you're going to say a team is bad because it has injuries then your argument is really weak. Go plague the Ravens secondary with two broken arms, a strained neck and torn muscles, I doubt they'd be in the AFC Championship game right about now.

Back on offense, do we really need to get into the issues with the WR corp ? Outside of all of that you have the soap opera that never ends which has seen a player dismissed, one seeing old troubles resurface, and one reverting back to the form that has soured two teams already.

Again, the talent is there it just needs to be used properly. I think Garrett is overwhelmed, he's got so many options he wants both receivers, the tight end and the running back to run patterns, leaving not a lot in to block for Romo which leads to him being rushed and making bad decisions.

Couple all of that with an owner that refuses to allow his HC to actually do the job, perenially tanks the draft for you, and has a fetish for bringing in people that are drama queens that cause even more trouble than they're worth. I cannot in any way shape or form be convinced that Dallas is a team that is a step away from the Super Bowl. I'd be more inclined to believe that they're a team that is more apt to completely fall of the map. Oh, and they play in the best division in football too.

By tanking the draft I presume you're ignoring Felix Jones, Tashard Choice and Martellus Bennett this season.

I think that pretty much covers it.

And that's just what provokes responses like the one from Maxx about you being a prick. Why even bother when it's not needed?

If anybody thinks that the Cowboys are one step away from the Super Bowl just needs to take a look at Week 17. They're talented, yes, but if you're a Super Bowl caliber team and you have to win the last week of the season to get into the playoffs, you do it. You don't basically no show and get your ass kicked by a team that wasn't supposed to be near the playoffs.

Weren't supposed to be near the playoffs my ass, if you don't consider the Eagles a playoff-calibre team you need your head checked.

Talented or not, they're not a team; just a bunch of talented people disguised as a team.

And it's the coaching staff that brings a team together. The talent is there, they just need coaches that realises how to use it to its fullest. Which I think is the one step away from the Super Bowl, the coaching staff.

[Stennick]

Spags is the new Head Coach of my St. Louis Rams. Everything I've read about this guy seems good. Gotta be better than Haslett or Linehan and maybe we'll play some defense oriented football since our offense is basically Steve Jackson and Donnie Avery at this point.

[alldaws1]

Dammit you were supposed to take Garrett off our hands

[Stennick]

You see I don't think Garrett is THAT bad. I mean a year ago he was the next head coach of the Dallas Cowboys and an offensive genius that everyone in the league wanted. The guy isn't ready to be a head coach yet but I think he's got a good offensive game plan.

[HailtotheYo]

It's a matter of opinions here, and you as a Cowboy's fan will clearly not see things outside the box. It's a lot like Chase with the Steelers.

Phillips isn't a joke, or are you just completely ignoring the 13-3 season last year, or the huge improvement on the defense since he took control mid-season this year?

Yes, he is. He's NEVER been able to control a team. He's a great coordinator but not head coach. He gets ramrodded by the players and is a pushover. He has no authority. That's a huge problem especially with the egos on this team. While I personally don't believe in the "won with the other guy's team" argument I can easily throw it at you in this instance. Parcells put the players together for this team, NOT phillips or Jones. That's why Parcells isn't around anymore. What did that 13-3 get them ? Oh yeah, ANOTHER first round exit. And how did the great Phillips do this year ? Not even the playoffs, right. He had all that wonderful talent there and fell flat on his ass. He hasn't ever won a playoff game EVER, ran Buffalo into the ground, and couldn't coach all that talent at Dallas to a playoff win.

It's the same offensive line as last season that sent so many to the Pro Bowl. Kosier's injury and the coaches' inability to stick with one guy as a replacement damaged it more than I think most people realise.

Again, if there's all that talent there then where are the results ? I mean, if talent is what mattered anyone here on the board could coach the Cowboys to at least the playoffs right ? You even said it right there, the COACH'S INABILITY to figure it out. That's part of what I'm talking about with this team.

Hmm, Chris Canty has proven to be a solid defensive end, not elite or anything but solid nontheless. Marcus Spears is improving and Jay Ratliff has turned out to be one of the better 3-4 nose tackles in the league.

Ok, that's THREE guys. I said THIN. That implies a lack of depth. You can have three wonderful players, but with nobody behind them it doesn't matter.

Most consistent? Thomas was probably our worst starting linebacker this season. Ware, James, Ellis, even Burnett and Spencer have improved a fair chunk.

Uh, Thomas had three times the tackles than Ellis did - over ten more than James - and started in the middle where as Burnett/Spencer are second on the depth chart. Yeah, Thomas was the most consistant of the bunch to include leading the LB corp in tackles and that includes the superstar Ware. So if he was your worst starting linebacker then I hate to think about what you consider good. And of course, this was after Ellis has been moved to the LB spot because he didn't exactly pan out on the DL.

Well if you're going to say a team is bad because it has injuries then your argument is really weak. Go plague the Ravens secondary with two broken arms, a strained neck and torn muscles, I doubt they'd be in the AFC Championship game right about now.

No, don't put words in my mouth or try to infer something that I'm not saying. The topic is the Cowboys being a step away from the Super Bowl. The fact here is that the Dallas secondary resembles a MASH unit rather than a solid group of DB's. That doesn't help the team's situation. If they're all healthy, yes there are more than a couple of quality players there. Unfortunately they aren't. That's just the way it is. Newman is the only standout, while a few others are quality starters. Now though you've got to hope that everyone recovers and is the player they were before the injuries. That would be a rather big question mark considering it involves damn near the entire secondary. That doesn't exactly prognosticate on the side of positives going into next year.

Again, the talent is there it just needs to be used properly. I think Garrett is overwhelmed, he's got so many options he wants both receivers, the tight end and the running back to run patterns, leaving not a lot in to block for Romo which leads to him being rushed and making bad decisions.

Again, all the talent in the world means exactly jack shit. Arizona doesn't have it and they're in the NFC title game. As you've said here, all this talent is actually detrimental to the team. It's creating problems and not solutions. Off the field it's a primetime drama and on it, it isn't much better. And from what you described it sounds like the scheming of the offense isn't so hot. I agree, and that just points to what I mentioned already about Garrett being exposed. After last year they thought he was the Golden Boy. This year his security blanket moved on to Miami and he had to do it all pretty much by himself. He couldn't. It's also in my opinion that the HC should draw the line and tell him what needs to be done rather than trying to cater to the egos of everybody. You scheme and whomever is open, is open. Whomever is in when the run is called runs it. Tell the players to shut the fuck up and play football. Niether Phillips or Garrett did that. That's an issue.

By tanking the draft I presume you're ignoring Felix Jones, Tashard Choice and Martellus Bennett this season.

So three players in the last 10+ years is good for you ? Wow. Earlier in the thread I ran off a lengthy list of people he's taken that more than erase these three players. Trying to defend Jones and his inability in the draft is WORSE than Chase and his excuses for Pittsburgh.

Which I think is the one step away from the Super Bowl, the coaching staff.

Certainly you aren't that blind.

[livid]

If anybody thinks that the Cowboys are one step away from the Super Bowl just needs to take a look at Week 17. They're talented, yes, but if you're a Super Bowl caliber team and you have to win the last week of the season to get into the playoffs, you do it. You don't basically no show and get your ass kicked by a team that wasn't supposed to be near the playoffs.

Weren't supposed to be near the playoffs my ass, if you don't consider the Eagles a playoff-calibre team you need your head checked.

Talented or not, they're not a team; just a bunch of talented people disguised as a team.

And it's the coaching staff that brings a team together. The talent is there, they just need coaches that realises how to use it to its fullest. Which I think is the one step away from the Super Bowl, the coaching staff.

Did you forget that everybody pretty much had to lose for the Eagles to even get a shot at getting in the playoffs? That's what I was referring to when I say that they weren't supposed to be near the playoffs. They have had an amazing run so far but I don't need to get my head checked when the Eagles wouldn't be in the playoffs had the apparent Super Bowl caliber team had won the game to get them in the Playoffs.

Point is, the Eagles were a team that needed everything to fall in place, for everybody in front of them to lose to make the playoffs. All the Cowboys had to do was win and they couldn't even make a competitive game out of it and that's NOT the sign of a team that's one step away from going to the Super Bowl.

Oh and I don't know where you're getting your stats HttK, but James lead the Cowboys in tackles by over 20 compared to Thomas.

[alldaws1]

Oh I forgot, this is an HTTK discussion. Therefore I am a homer and cannot see 'outside the box'. That's your answer for every single argument, grow up.

For the most part of that long-winded post you're actually arguing points that I agree with you on. I've already said the coaching staff needs a change, I'm not saying the Cowboys are in perfect shape to win the Super Bowl at this very moment.

I'm not putting words in your mouth about the secondary situation, in fact you went on to say yourself if they're healthy they're a decent unit. So yes, you're counting in injuries into whether a team is good enough for a Super Bowl run. The next season starts in September, not next week. You can't predict injuries so I'm judging the team as if it was at full health which would be the rational thing to do.

And again you contradict yourself with the drafting discussion. You said yourself this is a discussion about the team being a step away from the Super Bowl and you continue to rattle on about Jerry Jones' decisions in the past 10 years in the draft when it's the latest draft crop that's going to have the most influence in the current team, which is the focus of the discussion, so why bother referring to things that happened 10+ years ago that don't have any influence on the current squad and its ability to reach or win the Super Bowl?

[Maxx]

Odd how you fit that statement just as well as I do.

Yeah, flame bait some more you pompous fuck. Your incredibly public scolding didn't teach you any lessons? Did you not catch how most of the board thinks you're an arrogant jackass? You post dismissive, one sentence remarks that reek of your holier than thou attitude. Please point to any of my posts in this thread that do that. You're still doing the same shit that drives Be nuts, which is pretty pathetic, considering you're older than most people here. Grow the fuck up, learn to have a debate without trying to belittle the person you're speaking with. As I said, you're capable of doing it, in fact you almost did it with AD, but you still throw in your stupid fucking little douchebag jabs and come off like a complete twat. The general consesus among posters ages 18-23 on this board is that you need to act your fucking age, so why not try doing it.

[Maxx]

See above.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Maxx

[HailtotheYo]

Oh and I don't know where you're getting your stats HttK, but James lead the Cowboys in tackles by over 20 compared to Thomas.

I went back and checked NFL.com again. That's where I get the stats from. Yes, James did have more tackles. In the double checking I saw that Thomas had over 90 and was second only to James. I clicked on Ellis twice when looking over them the first time. Sorry about that. Still, Thomas was far from the worst of the starting backers.

Oh I forgot, this is an HTTK discussion. Therefore I am a homer and cannot see 'outside the box'. That's your answer for every single argument, grow up.

For the most part of that long-winded post you're actually arguing points that I agree with you on. I've already said the coaching staff needs a change, I'm not saying the Cowboys are in perfect shape to win the Super Bowl at this very moment.

How else do figure on the difference in opinion. Funny, I said nothing about being a homer this time around. I merely said that you're obviously going to see things differently as a fan of the team. Yeah, I compared it to Chase and his Steeler love but did say that it's a matter of opinions. Are you denying that as a fan of the Cowboys you aren't going to see situations more favorabely then myself or someone else that isn't a fan ?

I'm not putting words in your mouth about the secondary situation, in fact you went on to say yourself if they're healthy they're a decent unit. So yes, you're counting in injuries into whether a team is good enough for a Super Bowl run. The next season starts in September, not next week. You can't predict injuries so I'm judging the team as if it was at full health which would be the rational thing to do.

See, this is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. You choose to judge them as a healthy unit. I choose to judge them how they actually are. I'm looking at the Cowboys secondary and at the moment they aren't healthy. How is it any more rational to just assume they'll be healthy and everything will be ok with the numerous injuries they've had ? I'm looking at the situation as it is. They've got multiple people hurt and the star of the group who got back on the field this year was clearly not up to speed (Newman). I'm not predicting, I'm judging on RIGHT NOW. RIGHT NOW the secondary is shot. Yes, it absolutely could change by August. When that happens, I'll re-evaluate. I'm not going to just assume the best situation because as you said, you can't predict injuries. That's more of what I'm talking about when I say "won't look outside the box." Had I felt it was blind homerism, I'd have said it (like I have before).

And again you contradict yourself with the drafting discussion. You said yourself this is a discussion about the team being a step away from the Super Bowl and you continue to rattle on about Jerry Jones' decisions in the past 10 years in the draft when it's the latest draft crop that's going to have the most influence in the current team, which is the focus of the discussion, so why bother referring to things that happened 10+ years ago that don't have any influence on the current squad and its ability to reach or win the Super Bowl?

I could be mistaken on this, but I thought the entire purpose of the draft was to BUILD your team. That would imply that several successions of seasons (maybe not ten, but more than just last year) is what the base of your team is built on. There's a reason there is no depth on this team. There's a reason this team is considered deli slice thin. I can point directly to the last several years worth of drafts. In the last ten y

[alldaws1]

Ok, perhaps Thomas was second worst. James and Ware were much better and are in the prime or reaching the prime of their careers so I don't see any major problems with the linebacking corps.

Judging a team as they are right now, rather than at full health, would be fine if the Cowboys were still active and in the NFC Championship game. But they're not, so all this discussion about whether the Cowboys are a step away from the Super Bowl would logically point to next year's Super Bowl, so it makes sense to judge a team at full health for next season because injuries have a tendency to heal over a period of time.

Not every team has superstars throughout their entire team, you look at any of the remaining four teams this year and their back-ups wouldn't be able to do as good a job as the starters especially in key positions. Yet if you look at WR, RB, TE, LB, CB and safety, there's depth to Dallas' team. Safety was a bit of an anomaly this year because all three strong safeties on our roster were injured at one point but when they were healthy, Pat Watkins did a decent job of filling in for Roy Williams and when we were forced down to Keith Davis he did pretty well too.

[JStarr]

Odd how you fit that statement just as well as I do.

Yeah, flame bait some more you pompous fuck. Your incredibly public scolding didn't teach you any lessons? Did you not catch how most of the board thinks you're an arrogant jackass? You post dismissive, one sentence remarks that reek of your holier than thou attitude. Please point to any of my posts in this thread that do that. You're still doing the same shit that drives Be nuts, which is pretty pathetic, considering you're older than most people here. Grow the fuck up, learn to have a debate without trying to belittle the person you're speaking with. As I said, you're capable of doing it, in fact you almost did it with AD, but you still throw in your stupid fucking little douchebag jabs and come off like a complete twat. The general consesus among posters ages 18-23 on this board is that you need to act your fucking age, so why not try doing it.

Ooooooooooookay. That'll be three days off.

Maxx, honestly, he's right...and this will be the exact thing I put in your warn log. You come off as a total frothing psychopath whenever anyone, whether it's HttK or anyone, dares to belittle your precious Cowboys. Differences of opinion will happen. Get over it.

That's all any of this discussion is. Opinion. Those of us who can back it up with facts will usually do so. Those of us who can't...eh, posts like that are usually what comes out.

AD, he raised a great point. Fans of a team will see things differently than everyone else. You and Maxx with the Cowboys, Chase with the Steelers, me with the Colts, Dragsy with the Bears, IAceI with the Skins, naiwf with the Giants, damshow and Be with the Ravens, and so on. You wanna make corrections, fine, do it with facts. King, that goes for you too. Some of your shit is inflammatory, and that's what's irritating people.

I like discussing the NFL on here, but we keep having conversations like this and I will shut this motherfucker down. And keep shutting down any more that anyone might like to start, because I'm tired of ALL OF YOU acting like smug fucking pricks who wanna take shots when a team's down or like wounded little bitches with skinned knees every time someone dogs one of your precious fucking teams.

Matter of fact, fuck it, this thing's getting closed until noon tomorrow. Anyone who wants to restart some shit once I reopen it will get the same three days off that Maxx did...and maybe more, depending on how indignant they wanna get.

Honestly, does this shit go on in the Premiership thread? Jesus fucking Christ, all of you need to relax a bit.

[TheArsenal]

So now we're open and need a complete change of direction in coversation.....

Steve Spagnuolo.

Gone from the Giants and now Head Coach of the Rams. This will be really interesting for the Giants. He turned their defence into something great when it wasn't really all that before him. Losing Strahan last year, and now Spags could be huge for the Giants and the next guy who comes in as their defensive co-ordinator has some mighty big shoes to fill. Hopefully Osi will come back for next season in the kind of form he had last year - but I think the Giants need to pick Spags' replacement very carefully.

For the Rams, it's a great appointment. A lot of people were after Spags and I think they have a guy who may be able to do something good with the franchise. It may take a couple of years to get the right personell in place, but I think he can be a great coach in the NFL.

[mikevandam]

Will this thread be full of Cowboys fan baiting next season like it has been with the pats this year ?

[JStarr]

Okay, it's two hours early, but I'm reopening the thread. Also, Maxx, I'm going to rescind that suspension and remove the warning. I've researched this whole damn thread and I've found no real drag-out brawls until after about 2000 posts or so. I apologize for jumping on you and singling you out, since there seems to be another root cause.

Here's the deal. Some of you are arrogant, opinionated jerks when you talk football. People who like to belittle the knowledge and opinions of others when they disagree with your own. Be's been called on it, naiwf's been called on it, HttK gets called on it almost daily...and those who do are all right. King, we didn't have anyone going off on profane rants before you started posting in here, and in EVERY instance that I've had to warn people in here, you've been involved. Once or twice, maybe it's people not being able to shoot holes in an argument. More than that, it starts being something else.

The biggest problem people keep having with you isn't your blind lust for one particular team, like Chase gets stick for all the time. At this point, even after a bunch of MSN chats, even I still don't know what team you support. It's not posting ricockulous theories and demanding they be treated as gospel, like Vendetta has done before, because a lot of your arguments get backed up. It's exactly what Maxx pointed out: the fact that whenever you "discuss" things, there's always something. Some dig, some attack, some snotty sarcastic comment that puts people on the defensive. I've put myself in AD's or Maxx's shoes this morning, looking at what's set off the arguments you've had with them (funny how it's always about the Cowboys), and there are things in there that would have pissed me off, too. Honestly, there's still groundswells of support for canning you completely, and people that support you (i.e. me) don't have the kind of stroke that people who support, just as an example, Be do. I'm tired of feeling like the UN peacekeeping force that's got bombs flying overhead and is about to get its collective ass shot off.

And it's not like you're the only one. Dragsy and DMN have their "you're all fucking morons" moments, too. It's fine when someone's talking some shit about "eh, my fantasy team could kick all your fantasy teams' asses," but often, it's just a one-on-one thing about how "you're a fucking moron who should stop posting anywhere, and as a bonus, go die in a fire." And that shit will stop.

So here's the deal, ladies. You wanna argue and discuss? Great, that's what we're here for. But ANYONE who wants to post and denigrate the intelligence/sanity/sexuality/whatever of others will be mute for five days. We all like the game, we all like talking about the game, but we don't like being insulted. At least I don't. If any of you fuckers get off on it, do it somewhere else. Stick to facts to back up the argument, not talking about how X poster wants to suck X player's cock or whatever. Dig for something to back up your argument OR DON'T FUCKING POST if all you can come up with is "yur a fcukin' homer." It's done. We slide back into this morass, I'll close this motherfucker one more time, send it to the Archives, and there just won't BE an NFL thread. Now, next season, ever. All of you who want to throw stones at each other...fucking grow up.

And this is the ONLY word we're going to have on the subject in this thread. Wanna discuss in in PM's or MSN? Fine. jstarr2k3@hotmail.com. Fucking bring it. Any more on it in here, though, and it's five days. No matter who you are.

================================================================================

=

And back on topic:

Yeah, I'm pretty interested to see what Spags can do with the Rams. There are a few pieces on that roster to work with, but man, they kinda need to unhitch the wagon from Marc Bulger and move on offensively. Of course, I was interested to see what Linehan could do, too. >_>

Edited January 18, 2009 by Nashville Starr

[Clawson]

Julius Peppers leaving Carolina?

Fuuuuuuccccckkkkkkk. :crying:

[naiwf]

I hope the Giants get rid of Gilbride and just hire two new coordinators, since that guy's playcalling in the Eagles game was atrocious. I like Spags, but I think he got a bit too much credit for last season's success and not enough of the blame for the team being unable to register a single sack in three games against Philly and the defense pretty much falling apart on 3rd and long throughout the entire season. He'll have lesser personnel in St. Louis and I expect he'll be back as a DC within 3 years. Having said that, I don't have the slightest idea who we'll get to replace him. I don't expect the Giants to win 10 games next year unless they can swing a trade for Boldin or someone of that caliber since they will almost surely lose one of their two top RBs and Plax won't be back since Bloomberg will make sure he does some jail time.

[Mr Evil Guy]

I'm sooo stoked right now for these games.

Here's hoping for a Cardinals - Ravens Superbowl.

[HailtotheYo]

I'm sooo stoked right now for these games.

Here's hoping for a Cardinals - Ravens Superbowl.

I am 100% in favor of this as well.

For some odd reason I feel that Zona is going to beat the Eagles handidly. Now, that said I won't be surprised if it turns into another Turkey Day massacre. I don't know what the line is right now, but I do know that at one point it was 3. That tells you that even Vegas doesn't know what the shit to do with this game. I'm going with Warner. He's won. There's a reason the Iggles have only been to one Super Bowl in the twenty thousand chances they've had.