Baseball Mogul 2010

[Thatz]

Discuss how frustrating this game can be when you're not playing as a team that's named the Phillies, Dodgers, Cardinals, Red Sox or Yankees. Go!

No, but seriously. I just got this game a few days ago and I've been playing games as teams that no one would consider a contender - the Pirates, Rangers (yes I know they're having a good season irl, they always have shit ones in the game), etc.

For instance, in my Rangers game I played through the majority of the 2009 season with the current roster - I traded some prospects away for starters, though - and I finished last in the division. It seems like it was my pitching doing the damage, because I inspected my pitching lineup and rarely did anybody have an ERA under 5. My offense was decent as well, few players throughout the season had batting averages below the mendoza line and if they did they got benched or optioned to Triple A, where I'd bring up a rookie to see how well they could perform.

So at the end of the season I started dealing for pitchers. Prospects for starters. Veterans for starters. Benchwarmers for starters. Cash. Whatever I could do to get starters that had better seasons than my current ones, right?

Wrong. I'm in June of 2010 with a pitching lineup that looks almost nothing like what I started with, and I've still got guys with horrible ERAs. I have one starter who has lost all 7 games he's pitched. We started the season off going 2-8 in the first 10 games, and I think we're 3rd or 4th in the division right now. I'm not sure what to do to remedy my pitching situation.

Mmmbutyes. Let's discuss our BM2010 games!

To be honest, the game isn't really that difficult once you know what you're doing. If you just play at an adequate level, it's ridiculously easy to keep winning with any team after a few years. It doesn't matter if you're the Royals - after a few seasons of decent management, you easily outclass the AI.

As for the pitching - give it time. Texas is a hitter-friendly park, ERAs are going to be inflated. You can always try to upgrade your defense though, as a great defense can save some runs.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Or you get tired of there never being a decent roster set for OOTP.

The default set seems fine this year. What problems are you experiencing with it?

Admittedly this was the first year I didn't buy the game (going back to like 2002), but last year's was pretty sparse at the lower levels if I remember correctly.

[Emperor Fuckshit]

Or you get tired of there never being a decent roster set for OOTP.

The default set seems fine this year. What problems are you experiencing with it?

Admittedly this was the first year I didn't buy the game (going back to like 2002), but last year's was pretty sparse at the lower levels if I remember correctly.

Well, I didn't buy last year, so I'm not sure. The roster set this year is really very good. I follow the Red Sox very close, and the reproduction of their players is really rather good across the organisation (with errors becoming rather more common around the A ball area).

Does BM still not support 40 man rosters?

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

BM does not have 40-man rosters yet, but really I find that to be a lot more minor of a detail than some people seem to think. I remember being excited when OOTP first introduced them, and then it was "huh...this doesn't really change anything". Then it was "oh crap I just lost half my AAA team to minor league free agency".

[livid]

BM does actually support 40 man rosters now.

[MalaCloudy Black]

Yeah, I was about to say.. I'm pretty sure I've played a bunch of games with 40-man rosters. That's how I sort of "scout" guys, after September 1st I start subbing in minor leaguers for some of my less-than-stellar regular season performers and see how they do. It's how Sam Fuld got the CF spot in my Cubs game after I let Kosuke go.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

September call-ups have always been part of the game, I was assuming NWC meant the 40-man roster that's in use throughout the year.

[MalaCloudy Black]

Oh. Right, then unless Livid knows something I don't it doesn't have that.

[Emperor Fuckshit]

Yeah, I meant 40-man rosters in the sense of "secondary rosters" (i.e. the roster that all players with major league deals must be on unless waived).

BM does not have 40-man rosters yet, but really I find that to be a lot more minor of a detail than some people seem to think. I remember being excited when OOTP first introduced them, and then it was "huh...this doesn't really change anything". Then it was "oh crap I just lost half my AAA team to minor league free agency".

To me, having accurate roster rules and limits is pretty important. I mean, there's a reason that they exist in the real world (i.e. to prevent talent-hoarding and to appease the player's union) and their existence adds a considerable strategic element for GMs. Plus, there's nothing really unrealistic about considerable turnover in the high minors due to MLFA (and if you just weren't trying to re-sign those guys, then it's not really the game's fault).

BM is O.K. if you just want to play a quick and dirty simulation of the present day, but the lack of a secondary roster and the inability to have minor leagues properly simmed and managed detracts even from that. And that's quite apart from any questions related to DIPS modelling.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Emperor Fuckshit

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Well yes, I'll never dispute that OOTP is the better simulation by leaps and bounds. It's just that BM's easier to get into, pick up and play, and not have consume your life. Very similar to TEW vs. EWR, actually.

[Emperor Fuckshit]

Well, I'm an OOTP zealot, a baseball nerd and a megalomaniac. There is a large element of "different strokes", but OOTP is also just objectively superior in many areas. I mean, one can turn 40 man rosters off in the game, for example. And create six team leagues in Aruba that play forty game schedules! And are insanely pitcher-dominated! And have an associated high school league that feeds the parent circuit with players! And has no DH! And super low roster limits so that everyone plays the whole season!

A lot of hardcore "sim" guys actually hate OOTP for not being enough of a "replay" game (as compared to DMB or Stratomatic). But at least, via league totals modifiers and the recalc function, OOTP now caters somewhat to a very wide user-base.

To me, it's essentially a Big Mac/foie gras issue. I can accept the right of people to enjoy BM (hey, this analogy is slicker than I intended...) and sort of see why they would and all that good, libertarian shit. But I simultaneously have no problem deciding which is "better".

Edited July 28, 2009 by Emperor Fuckshit

[MalaCloudy Black]

stop using big words, explain in dumb words. Ass.

I might pick OOTP up at some point though. I don't know. Are roster updates for OOTP that bad? I always like to have the most accurate roster possible, I didn't even touch BM '10 until I found a mid-season roster mod for it and even then, it was only accurate up to like.. early July (July 2nd, I want to say), and the mod came out a week or two ago.

[Emperor Fuckshit]

Honestly, I think the default roster set for this version of OOTP (10) is absolutely fine. I'm sure there will be a demo out at some point soon-ish: I'd definitely recommend trying that at least.

e: If you play exclusively single-player present-day games, then OOTP will be quite a bit better than BM, but maybe not sufficiently so to justify the extra cost. If you play any fictional/historical baseball at all, though, then I think OOTP just wins hands down (since fictional play isn't even an option in BM, I don't believe, and it also lacks a lot of fundamental engine customisation options necessary for a decent historical facsimile).

Edited July 28, 2009 by Emperor Fuckshit

[Meacon Keaton]

I play both games. I play Baseball Mogul for the simplicity. It's a great game to just jump in and have fun with. And I play OOTP for the reason Fuckshit explained. I make my own off-the-wall leagues that play a dozen games in the dead of winter, with horrible pitchers, and big-ass stadiums making it impossible to hit homeruns. The both have a place in my heart/computer.

[Emperor Fuckshit]

Yeah, that's a decent breakdown.

Though I think the packing of 2009 Opening Day rosters as the default set has increased OOTP's "pick up and play" attractiveness quite considerably. And fictional leagues don't have to = zany leagues. They can often just be a way to do simple, realistic things that BM can't (run an Asian or other foreign league alongside MLB; use the Pacific Coast League or Negro Leagues in Historical play; etc..)

I had a lot of fun creating a UK league with OOTPX, but I set the Player Creation Modifiers poorly and ended up with a league that was too offense-centric for my tastes. There are a lot of received opinions about OOTP being horribly obscure and difficult to get to grips with. It's true that, in historical and fictional play, there are a lot of user-set variables that need to be handled carefully. If you have a really specific set-up in mind (and if that set-up is really quite far-removed from modern-day MLB), then it might take you a few trial-and-error periods to get to grips with things. But the manual is very detailed and helpful; as is the online community for more specific queries (honestly, the expertise, DIY ethic and willingness to learn more about the game over at those boards is astounding).

On the other hand, if you just want to take over the Yankees and win 130 games, then there's not too much more to get to grips with than in BM. You need to be more careful as regards some strategic elements (see the 40 man roster discussion earlier in this thread), sure. But other things which could theoretically require endless expenditure of time (micro-managing strategies for your GCL team, say) can be done by the AI if you like.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Emperor Fuckshit

[Emperor Fuckshit]

OOTPX demo, for those interested, now available here.

[ThrillhouseMAX]

I love Baseball Mogul because it's fairly simple and easy to play. However, after hearing so many good things about OOTP, I may go and check out the demo. The variety of things you can do with the game sound more fun.