The Inevitable January Transfer thread '10

[TheGreatJ]

We've already established you know nothing about football, although it was nice of you to hammer it home by trying to claim that Plessis and Spearing are better than Lucas. Laughably stupid stuff - much like your cliche'd 'analysis' of his game. You sound like a thick Paul Merson, and that takes some doing.

In case you didn't realise, I never said that Plesses and Spearing are better than Lucas. I said you had suffiscient cover in the CDM/CM role, and I used suffiscient in the sense that they could provide cover until Liverpool can actually afford to buy decent backup, as long as Masch stops getting suspended and Aquilani stays fit. And sure my analysis of his game is a little cliche'd, but take a long hard look at him and tell me he is actually any good.

Yes, Mascherano does make a number of exceedingly reckless tackles, Gerrard's not having his best season at Liverpool and Aquilani is only recently actually getting a fare few games. But can you honestly tell me Lucas has the class a team like Liverpool should have?

Edited January 5, 2010 by TheGreatJ

[therockbox]

We've already established you know nothing about football, although it was nice of you to hammer it home by trying to claim that Plessis and Spearing are better than Lucas. Laughably stupid stuff - much like your cliche'd 'analysis' of his game. You sound like a thick Paul Merson, and that takes some doing.

In case you didn't realise, I never said that Plesses and Spearing are better than Lucas. I said you had suffiscient cover in the CDM/CM role, and I used suffiscient in the sense that they could provide cover until Liverpool can actually afford to buy decent backup, as long as Masch stops getting suspended and Aquilani stays fit. And sure my analysis of his game is a little cliche'd, but take a long hard look at him and tell me he is actually any good.

Yes, Mascherano does make a number of exceedingly reckless tackles, Gerrard's not having his best season at Liverpool and Aquilani is only recently actually getting a fare few games. But can you honestly tell me Lucas has the class a team like Liverpool should have?

I've watched him plenty since he arrived, thanks, and yes, he is good. Unfortunately he's one of those players that does the 'boring' stuff MOTD and the like won't show (unless you're English), so he'll never get any credit for what he does - mainly pass incredibly well (one of the highest pass completion rates in the league with one of the highest 'passes attempted' figures), which keeps the team ticking over and retains possession. Part of the problem this season has been that those behind and in front of him (including Carragher, Gerrard and Torres) have been absolutely shambolic at doing the simple things. He's also decent in the air (I remember him dominating Fellaini in the air in the FA Cup game last season), and breaks up a lot of counter attacks.

His biggest crime, as far as I can see, is not being as good as Xabi Alonso - but then how many 22-year-olds are? Players that are 'no good' don't run away with the Bola de Ouro, nor do they carry a Premier League team's midfield for almost half a season. He showed up Gerrard massively against Reading, and has held his own in midfield against the likes of Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea - they're not exactly shit, are they?

But fuck all that. He's Brazilian and doesn't have a trick named after him - what a cunt.

[Adam]

Yeah, Lucas has done a good job on more occasions than not when I've watched Liverpool this season (which is a lot more than I usually do). Gerrard has not impressed me once, he doesn't seem to be quite the same influence as he has been in the past. Maybe it's due to the position he plays in, maybe not. I'm not sure myself, but it's clear that some of the so-called 'Untouchables' of the Liverpool side aren't performing to the standard they should-especially two of the biggest, Gerrard and Carragher. I do believe that perhaps Liverpool need a complete overhaul in terms of the owners (goes without saying), manager and some of the playing staff, but then again maybe that judgement needs reserving to see where Liverpool rank at the end of the season.

[TheGreatJ]

We've already established you know nothing about football, although it was nice of you to hammer it home by trying to claim that Plessis and Spearing are better than Lucas. Laughably stupid stuff - much like your cliche'd 'analysis' of his game. You sound like a thick Paul Merson, and that takes some doing.

In case you didn't realise, I never said that Plesses and Spearing are better than Lucas. I said you had suffiscient cover in the CDM/CM role, and I used suffiscient in the sense that they could provide cover until Liverpool can actually afford to buy decent backup, as long as Masch stops getting suspended and Aquilani stays fit. And sure my analysis of his game is a little cliche'd, but take a long hard look at him and tell me he is actually any good.

Yes, Mascherano does make a number of exceedingly reckless tackles, Gerrard's not having his best season at Liverpool and Aquilani is only recently actually getting a fare few games. But can you honestly tell me Lucas has the class a team like Liverpool should have?

I've watched him plenty since he arrived, thanks, and yes, he is good. Unfortunately he's one of those players that does the 'boring' stuff MOTD and the like won't show (unless you're English), so he'll never get any credit for what he does - mainly pass incredibly well (one of the highest pass completion rates in the league with one of the highest 'passes attempted' figures), which keeps the team ticking over and retains possession. Part of the problem this season has been that those behind and in front of him (including Carragher, Gerrard and Torres) have been absolutely shambolic at doing the simple things. He's also decent in the air (I remember him dominating Fellaini in the air in the FA Cup game last season), and breaks up a lot of counter attacks.

His biggest crime, as far as I can see, is not being as good as Xabi Alonso - but then how many 22-year-olds are? Players that are 'no good' don't run away with the Bola de Ouro, nor do they carry a Premier League team's midfield for almost half a season. He showed up Gerrard massively against Reading, and has held his own in midfield against the likes of Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea - they're not exactly shit, are they?

But fuck all that. He's Brazilian and doesn't have a trick named after him - what a cunt.

The only reason he has such a high pass completion rate is because he plays safe passes to the centre backs. Sure, he's keeping possession, but is he playing great balls through to the likes of Gerrard and Torres? Does he offer much creativity, if any at all? No. And it's all fine and dandy saying that he's been one of your most consistent players this season, but when he has been playing consistently average game after game, he's gonna be your most consistent player, the way Liverpool have been playing. He has incredible work ethic, I will give him that. He works his bollocks off nearly every match, but he dosen't exactly have alot to show for it, apart from his high pass completion rate and number of passes attempted, and they're just statistics anyway. I'm sure you're thinking that I think he meant to be awesome because he plays for Liverpool, seeing as I don't know a single thing about football and I sound like a thick Paul Merson, but the fact of the matter is, I don't. He's never gonna be great, he's not Alonso, and he is miles away from being the polished article alot of Liverpool fans seem to think he has been this season.

[therockbox]

The only reason he has such a high pass completion rate is because he plays safe passes to the centre backs.

Ahahaha, thank you, I knew this was coming. It's bollocks, of course - if you watched him you'd know this, but failing that go and have a quick look at some of the Guardian Chalkboards - then compare them to some of Xabi Alonso's. They're remarkably similar, by and large, although Alonso plays a lot more passes over a long distance (especially from the 'quarterback' position out to the wings). Not being as good as the best passer of a ball in the world is hardly a criticism, though, is it?

Sure, he's keeping possession, but is he playing great balls through to the likes of Gerrard and Torres?

Yes - you can add Kuyt and Benayoun/Aurelio (or whoever has played on the left) as well. As I said though, he, along with the whole team, really, has been let down massively by the attacking quartet. Gerrard and Torres have been the worst - Gerrard's been awful, not just by his standards but by anyone's, and a large number of our attacks have broken down once they get to him. His control has been erratic, shooting awful and his passing amatuerish. For all his goals Torres has become massively predictable, defenders know exactly what he's going to do so regardless of how good the passes he receives are, it's only once or twice out of ten that he does something with it.

Does he offer much creativity, if any at all? No.

Depends what you mean by creativity, doesn't it? The way you're going on about it sounds suspiciously like a Football Manager definition.

And it's all fine and dandy saying that he's been one of your most consistent players this season, but when he has been playing consistently average game after game, he's gonna be your most consistent player, the way Liverpool have been playing.

I'd disagree with you saying he's been consistently average (although this is a fairly stupid point in that what's 'average' differs from player to player - an average performance for Ronaldo would be a fantastic performance for Jermaine Pennant, for example), he's consisently done the jobs demanded of him to a high standard. That's all he can really do when surrounded by a defence and attack that have been incompetent, riddled with mistakes and dismal almost all season.

He has incredible work ethic, I will give him that. He works his bollocks off nearly every match, but he dosen't exactly have alot to show for it, apart from his high pass completion rate and number of passes attempted, and they're just statistics anyway.

'Just statistics anyway'? Fucking hell, that's clever. So he's got a pass completion rate comparable with anyone in his position or otherwise, but that doesn't count because it's a statistic? Genius. What a clever way to try and wiggle out of an argument.

I'm sure you're thinking that I think he meant to be awesome because he plays for Liverpool,

Where have I said that? In fact, where have I said he's 'awesome'?

He's never gonna be great, he's not Alonso, and he is miles away from being the polished article alot of Liverpool fans seem to think he has been this season.

I've haven't seen a single Liverpool fan trying to claim any of these things. He's a young player with a lot of potential, if he wasn't then he wouldn't be anywhere near the Brazil side, won the Bola de Ouro (although that's 'just an award') or attracted interest from Inter.

I don't see what him 'not being Alonso' has to do with anything, either. Alonso is unique, and that's why Real Madrid spent a summer chasing him before shelling out upwards of £30m for him.

[Hobo]

Lucas did get a lot of flak in the past. Last season I was at the 0-0 draw at West Ham and Lucas got hell from the home fans. But do you know what? From the second half on of last season the guy has really improved. He is by no means perfect but he's come on quite well. He's been solid. He's done his job. His job isn't to be Xabi Alonso. His job isn't to be a creative midfield dynamo making end to end passes. He is not really an attacking player. rockbox has probably watched him more regularly for longer than I have, but I've watched him for the last season and a half and there is an improvement. Spearing is, from what I've seen a bit of a mini-Gerrard, I could be wrong. Plesis I don't think has really had a performance quite like his ones from his first run in the first team. Lucas is doing better than them and fits in the way Rafa plays. Otherwise he'd not be there. Rafa stated he was the best in preseason, he's stuck with Lucas and I think he's been proved right with his performances.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

I'd be worried about relying on Aquilani anyway. He's still unproven in the Prem and while he looked good in his first game, he hasn't looked great since.

[The Future]

I have always viewed Lucas as similar to Fletcher, Fletcher always got stick from the fans but his workrate was always brilliant and he always hassled the opponent, put in tackles and nowadays he's hailed(rightly) as our best central mid-fielder.

Similarly Lucas..a decent player who gets flak from all the fans but works hard, puts in tackles and well maybe after a season when it stops becoming trendy to hate on him he'll get his recognition as a hard worker?

[Crybaby Bunting]

Benitez has apparently got only £1.5m to spend on players this window

Any money earned with player sales will only be used in the summer.

Methinks the board are trying to get Rafa to resign ¬_¬

[The Quasi Juice]

Benitez has apparently got only £1.5m to spend on players this window

Any money earned with player sales will only be used in the summer.

Methinks the board are trying to get Rafa to resign ¬_¬

Why is he trying to make a profit off of Babel then? I don't get it, if you need cash, let Babel go for 9m if Birmingham want to pay that for him. I doubt anyone would want to pay 13m for the man right now. Or...Rafa still sees something in him and is afraid that if he lets him go he will flourish somewhere else.

[therockbox]

Benitez has apparently got only £1.5m to spend on players this window

Any money earned with player sales will only be used in the summer.

Methinks the board are trying to get Rafa to resign ¬_¬

Why is he trying to make a profit off of Babel then? I don't get it, if you need cash, let Babel go for 9m if Birmingham want to pay that for him. I doubt anyone would want to pay 13m for the man right now. Or...Rafa still sees something in him and is afraid that if he lets him go he will flourish somewhere else.

This stuff happens in every negotiation. You never accept the first offer, it's stupid, especially when the club you're negotiating with apparently has a fair bit of money to spend.

[The Quasi Juice]

Benitez has apparently got only £1.5m to spend on players this window

Any money earned with player sales will only be used in the summer.

Methinks the board are trying to get Rafa to resign ¬_¬

Why is he trying to make a profit off of Babel then? I don't get it, if you need cash, let Babel go for 9m if Birmingham want to pay that for him. I doubt anyone would want to pay 13m for the man right now. Or...Rafa still sees something in him and is afraid that if he lets him go he will flourish somewhere else.

This stuff happens in every negotiation. You never accept the first offer, it's stupid, especially when the club you're negotiating with apparently has a fair bit of money to spend.

You're now assuming this is the only bid they have done. I doubt they just pooped out the 9m bid, 'cause I'd start lower for a player that hardly ever plays and hasn't proven much.

[therockbox]

Benitez has apparently got only £1.5m to spend on players this window

Any money earned with player sales will only be used in the summer.

Methinks the board are trying to get Rafa to resign ¬_¬

Why is he trying to make a profit off of Babel then? I don't get it, if you need cash, let Babel go for 9m if Birmingham want to pay that for him. I doubt anyone would want to pay 13m for the man right now. Or...Rafa still sees something in him and is afraid that if he lets him go he will flourish somewhere else.

This stuff happens in every negotiation. You never accept the first offer, it's stupid, especially when the club you're negotiating with apparently has a fair bit of money to spend.

You're now assuming this is the only bid they have done. I doubt they just pooped out the 9m bid, 'cause I'd start lower for a player that hardly ever plays and hasn't proven much.

This is the only one we've heard about, and given how eager they seemed to make it public I think it's a safe assumption to make.

£9m is a fairly reasonable first offer for a player like Babel as well. For some reason his reputation hasn't really been done too much damage by his shocking performances over the last two seasons, and Birmingham's new owner is loaded and will want to make a bit of a statement during January.

[Hobo]

So Patrick Vieira is having a medical at Man. City.

[Pesci]

He's said he's going there for first team football, which is strange. I think De Jong and Barry are a solid part of Man City's team and that's not the part they need to be concentrating on. Then again I haven't seen Vieira since his Arsenal days so I can't really comment on this supposed decline of his.

[stokeriño]

Today's rumour that amused me the most:

Tottenham are ready to offer captain Robbie Keane as bait to secure a deal for Aston Villa striker John Carew.

Daily Star

Massive Carew fan though I am, the only reaction I can give to that is "lol wut".

[Hobo]

He'd only be a Cog in the Villa Park machine.

[Dynamite]

Have any of these proposed exchange deal rumours EVER gone through?

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

He'd only be a Cog in the Villa Park machine.

Too right he would!

I can't see that working out for either team really...

[Scott McFly]

And now I've got an image of Harry sitting there with Robbie hooked up to a giant fishing rod and Carew jumping up excitedly trying to catch him, all the while Harry keeps pulling the rod up and laughing maniacally.

But yeah, if I were Spurs I'd rather keep Robbie Keane, even if he is a big Xmas-party-organising disobeyer.