2011 NFL Offseason Thread

[sahyder1]

Time to get one of these going. I think it is better to have an off season thread and a separate one when the season starts. Especially this year when a possible lockout might bring forward several discussions. What are you looking for your team to improve? What do you think about the potential work stoppage?

As a 49ers fan I am really hoping that we can sort out the QB situation this offseason. Even if we don't improve elsewhere that one move alone would be a good thing.

As for the lockout? Billionaires versus millionaires but I find myself usually rooting for the players in NFL contract disputes. A work stoppage would just be stupid for a league that makes this much money.

[MyKILLv2.0]

As a 49ers fan I am really hoping that we can sort out the QB situation this offseason. Even if we don't improve elsewhere that one move alone would be a good thing.

If by "sort out the situation", you mean they bring back Alex Smith then you are in luck... .... ha ha, actually as a NIner's fan as well, I would love to see McNabb come to the Bay area. I know he isn't the QB he was back in his prime, but he could play a Big Ben type of role where they lean on their running game and defense, while needing him to make only a few big/important plays a game. But meh.....who knows with the CBA what they will/can do.

Speaking of San Fran..... it looks like their new stadium in Santa Clare may be on the verge of falling through. Link If this happens, and no new stadium deal can be reach.....I just wonder how long it will be before the Niners join in the "speculation rush" to be the team that ends up in LA, along with San Diego.

[sahyder1]

I'd prefer Carson Palmer over McNabb.

[Cactus Drags]

I don't want the players to get screwed, I don't want any extra games, I definitely want some kind of restriction on the money top draft picks make. Firstly, no one should ever be getting guaranteed millions without having even played a down at the pro level, and secondly because no one wants the first fucking pick anymore, it's almost handcuffing teams rather than helping them rebuild.

Oh, and I'd like to see some sort of provision put in for retired players and their healthcare, especially the guys who weren't around for the silly money contracts. Perhaps the fine money from illegal hits could go into a healthcare kitty or something.

[sahyder1]

I don't want the players to get screwed, I don't want any extra games, I definitely want some kind of restriction on the money top draft picks make. Firstly, no one should ever be getting guaranteed millions without having even played a down at the pro level, and secondly because no one wants the first fucking pick anymore, it's almost handcuffing teams rather than helping them rebuild.

Oh, and I'd like to see some sort of provision put in for retired players and their healthcare, especially the guys who weren't around for the silly money contracts. Perhaps the fine money from illegal hits could go into a healthcare kitty or something.

Players are pretty much guaranteed to get screwed relatively speaking. I definitely want the two extra games. There will definitely be a rookie wage cap and that is a good thing. It should open up a lot more trading of draft picks which should make draft day much better. The fine money should continue to go to charity like it does for all the sports leagues but the NFL and the NFLPA have to get serious about helping the retired players. The league is making too much money not to do that. If they don't step up they are going to start losing top athletes to other sports sooner or later.

[HailtotheYo]

I definitely want the two extra games.

For what ? There is absolutely zero reason for them. Squads are too thin as it is. Two games added on is ridiculous. No purpose at all.

[naiwf]

Two extra games would make the product worse. All it would do is pile up the injury count, water down stats and make the playoff tiebreakers even more complicated than need be.

[sahyder1]

I definitely want the two extra games.

For what ? There is absolutely zero reason for them. Squads are too thin as it is. Two games added on is ridiculous. No purpose at all.

Two extra games would make the product worse. All it would do is pile up the injury count, water down stats and make the playoff tiebreakers even more complicated than need be.

I want more football and not less. The pre-season does nothing for me. The equipment is getting better and sooner or later the NFLPA will have to give in to the new helmets and pads that are being developed and should help reduce injury. They will probably add a couple of extra roster spots. The TV networks will push for the extra games too. The NFL will win out on this over the NFLPA. I'm not 100% sold it will happen this year but within the next 10 years the NFL will expand to a 17 or 18 game regular season with the Super Bowl moving to Presidents Day weekend with the Monday after the Super Bowl being a holiday.

Yes, it will water down the stats but we'll get over it. Baseball fans got over it when they went to 162 games and NFL fans did when they went from 14 to 16. NFL stats don't really hold the same public attachment that baseball stats seem to. We'll get over it in a hurry.

[naiwf]

If you really want to see a bunch of practice squad guys playing meaningful games in Weeks 18 and 19 of the season, more power to you. It appears as though you're in the minority though. Pads and helmets are not going to mitigate that many injuries when the guys are consistently getting bigger, stronger and faster and the field remains the same size. Add in that they'll all be playing 2 more games that count and you're going to end up with teams having guys that were 3rd and 4th string starting by the end of the elongated season. Watering down the talent pool by adding extra spots at the bottom of the roster is NOT going to make the league better.

[Powerhart]

I don't want the players to get screwed, I don't want any extra games, I definitely want some kind of restriction on the money top draft picks make. Firstly, no one should ever be getting guaranteed millions without having even played a down at the pro level, and secondly because no one wants the first fucking pick anymore, it's almost handcuffing teams rather than helping them rebuild.

Oh, and I'd like to see some sort of provision put in for retired players and their healthcare, especially the guys who weren't around for the silly money contracts. Perhaps the fine money from illegal hits could go into a healthcare kitty or something.

Players are pretty much guaranteed to get screwed relatively speaking. I definitely want the two extra games. There will definitely be a rookie wage cap and that is a good thing. It should open up a lot more trading of draft picks which should make draft day much better. The fine money should continue to go to charity like it does for all the sports leagues but the NFL and the NFLPA have to get serious about helping the retired players. The league is making too much money not to do that. If they don't step up they are going to start losing top athletes to other sports sooner or later.

I remember hearing the Comissioner say that the money from the fines was going to a fund for retirees and charity, could be wrong but that's what I remember.

[sahyder1]

If you really want to see a bunch of practice squad guys playing meaningful games in Weeks 18 and 19 of the season, more power to you. It appears as though you're in the minority though. Pads and helmets are not going to mitigate that many injuries when the guys are consistently getting bigger, stronger and faster and the field remains the same size. Add in that they'll all be playing 2 more games that count and you're going to end up with teams having guys that were 3rd and 4th string starting by the end of the elongated season. Watering down the talent pool by adding extra spots at the bottom of the roster is NOT going to make the league better.

Equipment is definitely a factor. Goodell has been asking the NFLPA for new padding for a couple of years now. In his state of the league address he sounded pretty optimistic that the new padding would become mandatory next season. The NFL also has a few companies testing out new helmets. Yes, guys are getting bigger and faster but they are in much better physical shape too. Injuries happen....and yes, more games might mean more injuries but there will be too much money involved for all parties to not implement the 18 game schedule sooner rather then later.

I may be in the minority as far fans who are asking for a 18 game season but it will end up happening. The owners want it. The broadcasters want it. Pretty much everything in sports comes down to money and eventually the money will force this change too. People will still watch matter how much they oppose the idea

I don't want the players to get screwed, I don't want any extra games, I definitely want some kind of restriction on the money top draft picks make. Firstly, no one should ever be getting guaranteed millions without having even played a down at the pro level, and secondly because no one wants the first fucking pick anymore, it's almost handcuffing teams rather than helping them rebuild.

Oh, and I'd like to see some sort of provision put in for retired players and their healthcare, especially the guys who weren't around for the silly money contracts. Perhaps the fine money from illegal hits could go into a healthcare kitty or something.

Players are pretty much guaranteed to get screwed relatively speaking. I definitely want the two extra games. There will definitely be a rookie wage cap and that is a good thing. It should open up a lot more trading of draft picks which should make draft day much better. The fine money should continue to go to charity like it does for all the sports leagues but the NFL and the NFLPA have to get serious about helping the retired players. The league is making too much money not to do that. If they don't step up they are going to start losing top athletes to other sports sooner or later.

I remember hearing the Comissioner say that the money from the fines was going to a fund for retirees and charity, could be wrong but that's what I remember.

Just googled it. Looks like the NFL added NFL retirees and disaster relief funds to other NFL other charities.

[Toe]

The 49ers should be calling the Eagles and Bengals right now. They only need a good QB to compete in their division. I think Kolb or Palmer would both be considered massive upgrades then the mess fron last season.

[HailtotheYo]

Equipment is definitely a factor. Goodell has been asking the NFLPA for new padding for a couple of years now. In his state of the league address he sounded pretty optimistic that the new padding would become mandatory next season. The NFL also has a few companies testing out new helmets. Yes, guys are getting bigger and faster but they are in much better physical shape too. Injuries happen....and yes, more games might mean more injuries but there will be too much money involved for all parties to not implement the 18 game schedule sooner rather then later.

1 - There's no "might" about it. More games will = more chances for injury which will = more injuries. Fact.

2 - More money ? Yeah, for the owners. I knew that is where you'd end up with it and it's a fucking joke. The owners do not give a fuck about the players beyond them being a means to a buck. Hell, they want to take a billion dollars from the players as it stands now. They're going to want the same percentage of any "new monies" that these two added games bring. There is absolutely ZERO reward for the players, that is worth the risk of adding those two games.

3 - Equipment will always be behind the times. It is reactionary. It's just the nature of how things work. That isn't the fault of anyone but it certainly isn't an argument for anyone either. You can develop/test/prove anything in a lab but the fact of the matter is that nothing is proven to work/not work until put into practical use. I mean hell, those Revolution helmets were the answer, remember ? 10 years later and we've had concussion/head injuries INCREASE. What about those BIKE helmets ? They shit the bed. The Spyder pads ? Absolutely no effect in terms of helping prevent injuries.

[naiwf]

Yeah, I don't see how anyone can argue that adding 32 total games of football to the schedule isn't going to add to the injury total. Equipment isn't going to prevent the plays that saw Romo or Woodson break their collarbones or ligaments from snapping in half when someone's foot gets caught under a pile or snagged in the grass/field turf. Linemen having to absorb an extra 120-160 plays under stressful conditions is going to end up with more guys on IR and scrubs playing games that count. Instead of (not) wanting to watch preseason football before the season starts, you're simply going to end up watching "preseason football" the last 2 weeks of the regular season. A team that is out of it by week 15 will just pull their dinged up starters and teams like the Packers or Giants would have had to play an extra couple of games with makeshift lines in their hopes of making the postseason. Neither of those things sounds exciting. When you add in the fact that the extra games won't be from within the division, there is really zero appeal as a fan.

[Damian WayLNKe]

I'm just a fan of how balanced the NFL schedule is since they moved to 32 teams. Each team plays teams in their division twice, one game against each team in an interconference division, one game against each team in an intraconference division and two games against teams in their conference that finished in the same spot in the division standings. This means that each team has an equal amount (4) of games against first place, second place, third place and last place teams. Going to 18 games will ruin this >_<

[sahyder1]

Equipment is definitely a factor. Goodell has been asking the NFLPA for new padding for a couple of years now. In his state of the league address he sounded pretty optimistic that the new padding would become mandatory next season. The NFL also has a few companies testing out new helmets. Yes, guys are getting bigger and faster but they are in much better physical shape too. Injuries happen....and yes, more games might mean more injuries but there will be too much money involved for all parties to not implement the 18 game schedule sooner rather then later.

1 - There's no "might" about it. More games will = more chances for injury which will = more injuries. Fact.

2 - More money ? Yeah, for the owners. I knew that is where you'd end up with it and it's a fucking joke. The owners do not give a fuck about the players beyond them being a means to a buck. Hell, they want to take a billion dollars from the players as it stands now. They're going to want the same percentage of any "new monies" that these two added games bring. There is absolutely ZERO reward for the players, that is worth the risk of adding those two games.

3 - Equipment will always be behind the times. It is reactionary. It's just the nature of how things work. That isn't the fault of anyone but it certainly isn't an argument for anyone either. You can develop/test/prove anything in a lab but the fact of the matter is that nothing is proven to work/not work until put into practical use. I mean hell, those Revolution helmets were the answer, remember ? 10 years later and we've had concussion/head injuries INCREASE. What about those BIKE helmets ? They shit the bed. The Spyder pads ? Absolutely no effect in terms of helping prevent injuries.

I have said for years that the NFLPA is really weak and the NFL always wins out but that is more an argument in favor of more games then less. The NFLPA will give in. Equipment does matter. As the padding is getting better and lighter the players will still be able to perform at a top level while having the needed protection. The whole "zero reward" for the players make no sense. NFL revenue is growing every year. Even if players stay at the same % of revenue they are getting more money each year. That doesn't change that the NFL owners have taken advantage of the players but it is far from "zero reward" for the players.

I couldn't disagree more with your "concussion/head injuries" comment. These injuries aren't increasing, they are just being diagnosed properly. Ten years ago these guys were being allowed to play thinking they just had a headache.

There really is no right or wrong answer here. I want more football and you want less. Neither of us will change our minds on it.

The 49ers should be calling the Eagles and Bengals right now. They only need a good QB to compete in their division. I think Kolb or Palmer would both be considered massive upgrades then the mess fron last season.

I definitely want Palmer. Not sold on Kolb at all. But something does need to be something about the QB situation. We still haven't recovered from drafting the original overhyped Urban Meyer coached quarterback.

Edited February 12, 2011 by sahyder1

[sahyder1]

Michael Bush arrested

Albert Haynesworth charged with assault

Brandon Banks stabbed

Welcome to the first weekend of the NFL offseason.

[HailtotheYo]

I have said for years that the NFLPA is really weak and the NFL always wins out but that is more an argument in favor of more games then less. The NFLPA will give in.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything that I asked you.

Equipment does matter. As the padding is getting better and lighter the players will still be able to perform at a top level while having the needed protection.

I couldn't disagree more with your "concussion/head injuries" comment. These injuries aren't increasing, they are just being diagnosed properly. Ten years ago these guys were being allowed to play thinking they just had a headache.

Yes, equipment matters. Didn't say that it didn't. If you're going to respond and quote me, at least read what you're quoting. The players DON'T have the needed protection. They'll never have a level of equipment that is = to the level of protection they need. The equipment manufacturers and research cannot keep up with the situations/circumstances they have to protect against on the field. That is FACT. I'm not making that up. Hell, I even cited you 2 helmets and a set of pads that have come into the game in the last 10 years that were supposed to do exactly what you're saying will happen. IT HASN'T. What, they're going to wake up one day and just figure it out ? They thought that with the Revo helmets. Ooops.

You can disagree all you want. You're flat out wrong. Faster/Bigger men colliding create bigger forces on the body. You can't argue with physics. Now, I do admit that the rates aren't increasing at the 21% that was recorded from last year to this year (yeah, that's right a 21% increase reported in a year) because the league wasn't forced to crack down on it until a couple of years ago. The numbers are a bit inflated, BUT the numbers are still on the rise.

Here's a little report to help you out:

Dangers of the Game

Here's the article run by Esquire that has even more information that again, shows that you are flat out wrong:

link

Take a good look at that graph that shows the steady rise/spike of when the head injuries occur. In the report, check out the bar graph showing number of players with at least one concussion over the course of 2002-20009 and let me know whether it's increasing or decreasing. Maybe I'm dyslexic.

Um, and please don't play dumb. If you honestly think that NFL team doctors/physicians didn't know what a concussion was ten years ago, then you're bordering on MPH levels of dee te dee. They may not have had to report it to the league, but doctors/physicians have to, by law, file proper reports on what they diagnose and keep records of their practice. Where do you think the "publically available" inury reports came from for all the research the NFLPA has been doing ?

The whole "zero reward" for the players make no sense. NFL revenue is growing every year. Even if players stay at the same % of revenue they are getting more money each year. That doesn't change that the NFL owners have taken advantage of the players but it is far from "zero reward" for the players.

Context buddy, you should try it. With what the players would be "getting" the reward portion is at zero. It is simply not worth the two extra games they'd have to play/risk injury on for what they'd be getting. You're right, NFL revenue is growing hand over fist ... so I ask you again and maybe this time you'll answer. WHAT DO YOU NEED THE TWO GAMES FOR ? WHAT IS THE PURPOSE ?

Oh, and let's not even get into the fact that Player's STILL DON'T HAVE GUARANTEED MONEY and that the owners are, once again, trying to take more money from the players.

There really is no right or wrong answer here. I want more football and you want less. Neither of us will change our minds on it.

Care to show me where I stated, or even hinted that I want less football ? It'll take a while to find it because I didn't say it or anything like it.

I'd love more football. I'm not dillusional though. It doesn't make sense to do it. There is absolutely zero need for it. It is not worth the risk to the players to have it.

I'm willing to bet I can guesss your level of experience actually playing the game competitively. It's the only way to explain how oblivious/ignorant you are in this situation.

[sahyder1]

It is football. Guys get hurt. Players know they can get hurt but that is the the risk they choose to take. Same goes for MMA, boxing, hockey and even pro wrestling. If we really cared about these guys not being able to walk when they are in their 50s we wouldn't really watch football. One of the reasons we watch football are the big hits. No one is going to stop watching football if it went to 18 games.

Go listen to the older NFL players talk about concussions. Concussions weren't diagnosed properly until very recently. That's not just a football thing either. Baseball, hockey and pro wrestling have had the same problems.

What the hell does me not having played football have to do with anything? If we cared about the long term health of these guys we wouldn't jump out of our seats every time a WR got laid out in open field. We wouldn't cheer every a player rushing from the blindside came from behind and drove a QB into the ground. Injuries are a part of the sport, always have been and always will be. The best they can do is go with the best available padding and helmets.

Like everything else in sports it comes down to the money. In exchange for a bigger piece of the income the players will agree to a 18 game schedule. They will probably get an extra bye week out of it. The owners are pretty much unanimous on this one. I'm with the players on the guaranteed money part. I've been saying that for years. They're not going to get it though because the union isn't strong enough.

[Meacon Keaton]

I think the extra two games just adds unnecessary risk. While, yes, I'd love to see more football, I don't think it's a good call in a few ways.

Like I said, it adds two more games where a serious injury could happen. Yes, it's football, but we don't need to tack on more opportunities for someone to end up paralyzed. I also think it could water down the regular season. I think it's at it's perfect length right now IMO. As for the records, I don't really care about that, though someone said no one cared when baseball did it, which is a lie. It's why they had separate 154 and 162 season records for over two decades.