NASCAR 2011

[Guest jaywhyte]

Pocono is in Pennsylvania...Watkins Glen is in NY and gets sold out every year.

But yes, I do agree Lowerdeck.

The reason some of these races were taken out is because they wouldn't put in the safer barrier walls or didn't have the money to.

I've got a simple formula. It's called get rid of the chase and just do the first 26 races. 26 races in a season IS a chase in itself. Even 30. You go back and look at the "old days" and they only raced 29 when Earnhardt Sr. was winning his championships. 7 guys had the chance to win the championship with like 3 races to go in the season Alan Kulwicki won so Nascar can't say the championship isn't close. Just because Kenseth won by like 500 points the final season without the chase isn't a reason to get rid of the original way you run. 500 points with this level of competition would never happen again and if it does, the guy that won the championship obviously deserves it.

[Lowerdeck]

Pocono is quite much closer to NYC than Watkins Glen. It's less than two hours from the GWB, therefore that and Dover end up being the races for NY area fans. Watkins Glen is too far upstate and away from the I-95 metropolis.

[naiwf]

The problem with NASCAR is they want to act like everyone races/should race for the win, which simply isn't true. They don't want to admit that finishing 3rd and not running out of gas or wrecking in the last couple of laps is better for your season than potentially picking up an extra 15 points, or running out of gas and finishing 22nd and losing let's say 60-65 something points.

It's even more pronounced under the new scoring system. If I'm in 4th and choose to make a late fuel gamble run for the win, all I can do is pick up 6 points. If I wreck or run out of fuel and finish anywhere worse than 10th, I've lost more than 6 points trying to advance my position. Why would I risk it unless I NEED to win that race? By the time someone's in a need to win position they're already in the 23rd-26th race of the season anyway. If you really wanted people to win races you would award 10 or 15 bonus points for the 'W' now (25+ before) and not 3 (or 10 in the old system).

NASCAR is the only "sport" in America that I know of where a person/team with 0 victories can still win a championship.

[Slogger]

But IIRC that no driver has ever won without winning a race - Kenseth came close in 03 he only won 1 or 2 but no Driver hasn't won a title without winning a race in that year.

Truck race spoilers.

Michael Waltrip - Nuff said

[Guest jaywhyte]

The problem with NASCAR is they want to act like everyone races/should race for the win, which simply isn't true. They don't want to admit that finishing 3rd and not running out of gas or wrecking in the last couple of laps is better for your season than potentially picking up an extra 15 points, or running out of gas and finishing 22nd and losing let's say 60-65 something points.

It's even more pronounced under the new scoring system. If I'm in 4th and choose to make a late fuel gamble run for the win, all I can do is pick up 6 points. If I wreck or run out of fuel and finish anywhere worse than 10th, I've lost more than 6 points trying to advance my position. Why would I risk it unless I NEED to win that race? By the time someone's in a need to win position they're already in the 23rd-26th race of the season anyway. If you really wanted people to win races you would award 10 or 15 bonus points for the 'W' now (25+ before) and not 3 (or 10 in the old system).

NASCAR is the only "sport" in America that I know of where a person/team with 0 victories can still win a championship.

Well Watkins Glen is the only one in New York still

But I do agree. Under the new point system 1st should get a total of 60 points and 2nd should get 42. That's worth taking a chance over. 18 points is a huge swing with the new points system. Also need to get rid of the lucky dog and wave arounds. Yes it creates exciting racing but if you make a mistake big enough to put you a lap or more down, you shouldn't be able to get it back so easily. Then again, this is probably why we saw so many top drivers/teams make mistakes because they knew they could get it back easily by gambling.

[Taxation is Theft]

My theory on why NASCAR decided to change the points system this year is because of Jimmie Johnson winning the championship 5 years straight. And that's a problem because the reason he won it isn't because he's a uber, hot-shit, Richard Petty or Dale Earnhardt level driver, but because the quality of drivers in the series has gone down the toilet during the past decade.

NASCAR used to be more exciting, because back when it was still the Winston Cup series, you had a lot of competitive drivers as well as drivers with personalities. Now you have younger drivers, which is not a bad thing, but not a lot of personalities and not a lot of competitive talent, either. I don't have favorite drivers so much as I have drivers I hate to see win (Can't stand either of the Busch brothers, for instance).

The one thing I wish NASCAR would do? Either get rid of the road course races OR stop teams from substituting a road course specialist fans don't give a shit about for their regular driver during those races. (If they dumped one of the two, I'd rather they keep Watkins Glen and dump Sonoma. I don't like the Sonoma course and that race is usually boring as hell)

Your second paragraph was the answer to your first. NASCAR is boring today because the drivers, just like the tracks are all the same. If you put a Johnson quote against a Logano quote against a Kenseth quote, would any of us be able to tell the difference? No. Why? Because personalities scare sponsors. Which leads me to....

You bitch about a lack of personality yet hate the Busch boys? If wrestling taught us anything, its that a strong heel can sell tickets on the hope that someone will punk his ass out. NASCAR was missing that for years. They needed someone that the fanbase could collectively say "I hate that guy enough to pay to watch someone put his ass in the wall." about. Kurt can be that polarizing guy at times but Kyle Busch is the one. Hell, I'm a huge fan of his and theres times id love to see him get his.

Lastly, I agree and disagree with your stance on road course events. There should be more, not less. The Nationwide series runs on Circuit Gilles Villeneuve in Montreal. They go to Road America. They ran in Mexico someplace. Move those tracks up to the cup level. However, I do agree about Infineon. Fuck that place.

If anything, one of my biggest complaints was ... seeing repeat races at similar style tracks.

Daytona, Charlotte, Bristol, Darlington, Talladega, and Richmond should have two dates each. Every other track should only get one. Also, bring back North Wilkesboro, Hickory, and Rockingham.

@jaywhyte: 1992. Going into Atlanta, Kulwicki, Elliot, Davey Allison, Kyle Petty, and Harry Gant all had a shot at leaving with the championship. If not for Ernie Irvan, Allison probably would have won the whole thing.

@naiwf and Slogger: I think David Green won a Busch title in 1994 without winning a race.

[Lowerdeck]

I don't remember a Hickory, but I do Rockingham and North Wilkesboro. Aside from maybe Richmond, I agree with your two race date tracks. Needs more road courses too, less cookie cutter 1.5 mile ovals.

[Taxation is Theft]

Hickory is in North Carolina. Its .363 miles. (smaller than Bristol) Busch raced there until 1998 or so.

[Lowerdeck]

While I'm thinking of other things to gripe about the matter:

Drivers between the top three series should just pick a level and stay at it. No dropping down to the Busch (whatever it's called now) or Trucks just for the hell of it. Let the young guys (or veterans) try and find success there, while the cream of the crop stays up in Sprint Cup.

That and there should be schedule variations between the three. Let the Busch and Truck series go to the smaller markets, rather than just piggyback on the big series. Or give second dates on other weekends to places with series already.

[Guest jaywhyte]

Hickory is in North Carolina. Its .363 miles. (smaller than Bristol) Busch raced there until 1998 or so.

was this the track that was just one big circle basically? Whatever that track was I loved it because it was so different.

[Slogger]

You bitch about a lack of personality yet hate the Busch boys? If wrestling taught us anything, its that a strong heel can sell tickets on the hope that someone will punk his ass out. NASCAR was missing that for years. They needed someone that the fanbase could collectively say "I hate that guy enough to pay to watch someone put his ass in the wall." about. Kurt can be that polarizing guy at times but Kyle Busch is the one. Hell, I'm a huge fan of his and theres times id love to see him get his.

Lastly, I agree and disagree with your stance on road course events. There should be more, not less. The Nationwide series runs on Circuit Gilles Villeneuve in Montreal. They go to Road America. They ran in Mexico someplace. Move those tracks up to the cup level. However, I do agree about Infineon. Fuck that place.

@naiwf and Slogger: I think David Green won a Busch title in 1994 without winning a race.

David Green won the Goody's 250 at Bristol in '94.

Matt Kenseth won the first Las Vegas race in '03 when he won the championship - But that was a year when Bill Elliott, Robby Gordon and Joe Nemechek won races.

I'm not really a fan of Sears Point (Infineon) but it's one of only 2 Roadies on the cup schedule and until NASCAR promise to switch it out with a place like Montreal or Road America I don't want to see it go - Montreal and I don't have a real good understanding as some might imagine but I'd love for it to be on the Cup Schedule - That track is amazing.

Cookie Cutters need less dates - I watch all the other races but can't stand those 1 and a half mile snoozefests.

I'd pay to watch Kez, Kyle or Jimmie get put into the wall, Logano too.

[Taxation is Theft]

Hickory is in North Carolina. Its .363 miles. (smaller than Bristol) Busch raced there until 1998 or so.

was this the track that was just one big circle basically? Whatever that track was I loved it because it was so different.

lol. If you look at the track, there are defined straightaways. However, when you watch the cars go around the track, it does look like a big circle. Buddy Baker called it once while announcing a race from there. They arent straights. Theyre turns three and six.

@Slogger: Good looking out. That was the race Mark Martin pulled into the pits a lap early or something.

So I guess Stewart won the Nationwide race. Didnt see a second of it. Anything good happen?

[Guest jaywhyte]

Hickory is in North Carolina. Its .363 miles. (smaller than Bristol) Busch raced there until 1998 or so.

was this the track that was just one big circle basically? Whatever that track was I loved it because it was so different.

lol. If you look at the track, there are defined straightaways. However, when you watch the cars go around the track, it does look like a big circle. Buddy Baker called it once while announcing a race from there. They arent straights. Theyre turns three and six.

@Slogger: Good looking out. That was the race Mark Martin pulled into the pits a lap early or something.

So I guess Stewart won the Nationwide race. Didnt see a second of it. Anything good happen?

Well yeah I knew it had straights lol. Only way I could really think of wording it so you would understand what track I was talking about. That one was a cool track. I don't know why ORP/IRP hasn't came to Nascar either? You can make 2 trips to Indianapolis without going to the 2.5 mile both times!

From what my brother said, nothing happened until the last few laps and I'm not even sure there was a wreck. I saw there was only 12 cars on the lead lap...sounded like a snooze fest. 2 car draft just the same as cup.

[Lowerdeck]

I believe the Busch series (whatever it is now) uses IRP, while the Sprint Cup stays at Brickyard.

[Guest jaywhyte]

I believe the Busch series (whatever it is now) uses IRP, while the Sprint Cup stays at Brickyard.

Nationwide races at IRP/ORP but I was talking about why the Sprint Cup doesn't. I know Nationwide goes to IRP while Cup goes to the Brickyard...just saying they could add that as an extra visit for another track. It would add another short track which Nascar needs more of and get rid of what you guys call "cookie cutter" tracks. I'm with everyone on the 1 1/2 mile deal. Do track builders not have any creativity?!?! Look at Pocono, Darlington, Bristol...they all had a beautiful vision. You can make a track 1 1/2 miles without being the same. Maybe make turns 1 & 2 super banked then 3 & 4 flat.

[naiwf]

So a 20 year old rookie won? Nice ending from a storybook standpoint, but a thoroughly boring week of races.

[oldskool]

Didn't even know where Victory Lane was. He drove right by it. I loved it.

[Slogger]

TREVOR BAYNE!

I caught some of the race this morning but had to head off to class - Was so cheesed that I missed the moment.

So happy for the kid AND he drove a Ford!

[Guest jaywhyte]

FORD FTW!!!

[Gene Kiniski]

I don't remember a Hickory, but I do Rockingham and North Wilkesboro. Aside from maybe Richmond, I agree with your two race date tracks. Needs more road courses too, less cookie cutter 1.5 mile ovals.

Rockingham should always have a home in Nascar. Richmond deserves two races in my opinion as well. Maybe it's because I am from/live in Richmond and work directly across the street from RIR, and tailgate each race there, but I think it should have a two a year. It's a nice race to mix in and break up the monotony. RIR races also put a lot of test on the drivers (outside of Gordon who basically owns the track when he races it).