The Continuing Chronicles Of Jay Feaster's Incompetence

[Ruki]

I am guessing that within the next 4-5 years the NHL will expand to 32 teams, so it will be all even.

But for now, I like your idea of having the wildcard be from any division.

[Gabriel]

This plan looks ripe for expansion.

Until that happens though, I would prefer that the wildcard spots are for the four teams with the most points outside the top 3 in each division. I would also remove the divisional playoff format and make it so that the #1 seed plays the #16 seed in the first round, regardless of division or conference. Fans have been clamoring for the possibility of seeing divisional rivalries in the Stanley Cup finals since the new format was introduced.

[Sweet Holy Moses]

I am guessing that within the next 4-5 years the NHL will expand to 32 teams, so it will be all even.

Expansion is fine by me. But having the two 'expansion slots' in the West severely limits where they can expand to. What's left in the West? Seattle, Portland, Vegas, Houston, Kansas, Salt Lake City. Admittedly, that's a lot. But that's assuming those are semi-viable markets and that the Coyotes stay in Phoenix. That would eliminate Quebec, Hamilton, and Toronto as expansion options. Guaranteed money-making options. That seems silly to me. But then again, with Bettman at the helm, what isn't silly about NHL expansion?

[Ruki]

Surely they could do some conference juggling should a team come to Quebec, Hamilton or Toronto 2.0.

[Sweet Holy Moses]

But one of the major reasons for the new alignment is to fulfil promises made to Detroit when the moved West and Columbus when they joined. There's no way the NHL would just send them back to the West shortly after giving them their wish. Honestly, if this alignment plan goes through, we can kiss another Eastern Canadian team goodbye.

[Pizza]

Or they can stick them in the West. Toronto was in the West until the Nashville expansion. Winnipeg is in the East now. They'd get shafted, but so was Columbus for the past 12 years. Eventually a Southeast team can move to Seattle or Kansas and they can come up with a better geographical balance.

[caucasianheat]

The picture becomes clearer when Phoenix is settled one way or the other. Lots of cities want teams and some would be ready to deploy tomorrow, but it seems the league won't move on anything until every last option in Phoenix is exhausted.

There are struggling teams in the east, too, that could conceivably move to Quebec City or elsewhere. One of Florida or Tampa could comfortably relocate to the northeast under the new alignment. NJ has an unstable ownership situation and the Islanders moving to Barclays is probably too many teams in too small an area.

edit: Whoa trades. Montreal acquires Michael Ryder and sends Erik Cole to Dallas. Philly brings back Simon Gagne from LA for a conditional fourth.

[Lowerdeck]

I could have thought of a better plan in 10-15 minutes.

[Plubby]

NHL & NHLPA release realignment plan. And it's terrible.

Thoughts?

It's a good plan. Detroit gets paid back for being the good soldier they were in the west, and Columbus gets what they need to motivate that fan base.

[Sweet Holy Moses]

It's a good plan. Detroit gets paid back for being the good soldier they were in the west, and Columbus gets what they need to motivate that fan base.

Fixed.

[Plubby]

That's a stupid post. Ohio is a great market, but in a place where hockey isn't #1 you can't give them what the Jackets have been and expect them to turn up. Now they'll get to see Crosby a bunch of times - expect them to turn up for that. If the team turns the corner like it looks like it's trying to do, they'll come back. They were there when they made the playoffs.

EDIT: Compare the Toronto Raptors - they didn't sell as well (admittedly not as bad as Columbus, but the point remains) as they will now that Gay is there and the team looks competent.

EDIT 2: Actually, my Avs are a great comparison. If Columbus does turn that corner, their attendance will do the reverse of the Avs from the turn of the century to now.

[Sweet Holy Moses]

CBJ's in the same division with Chicago and Detroit. They get plenty of quality players coming into town to play. They had Nash since the beginning of his career. Yet they still only get 14k and change to see their games. In 2010-11 CBJ only had 200 more fans per game than Atlanta. And Atlanta moved that year.

My post pointed out that the fan base in Columbus is terrible. Regardless of the cause -- whether due to to mismanagement or the quality of the market is -- the fan base is bad there.

[Hewey]

Damn, crazy game between Pittsburgh and Florida, tied 4-4, going into the third, with Florida getting three in the second, and Pittsburgh scoring four. Can't blame Vokoun for allowing those goals, Pens were playing badly, just glad to see them come back from a Florida three goal lead.

[Plubby]

CBJ's in the same division with Chicago and Detroit. They get plenty of quality players coming into town to play. They had Nash since the beginning of his career. Yet they still only get 14k and change to see their games. In 2010-11 CBJ only had 200 more fans per game than Atlanta. And Atlanta moved that year.

My post pointed out that the fan base in Columbus is terrible. Regardless of the cause -- whether due to to mismanagement or the quality of the market is -- the fan base is bad there.

If I may paraphrase Yahtzee here, you could not have missed the point any harder if you were facing the wrong direction and the point was in another country.

First and foremost: If you're going to tell me that anybody on those Detroit and Chicago teams are the draw that Sidney Crosby is, i'm going to have to ask you to step outside and inhale the flowers.

What they got in 2010-2011 is completely irrelevant. The Thrashers moved because their owner is selling and nobody wanted to buy them. Contrasted to The Coyotes, who drew fans as badly as Atlanta but haven't moved because every time hope seems lost, someone else pops up who wants to keep the team in Phoenix (Glendale. If they were still in Phoenix the yotes situation would not have happened.) Not only are Columbus outdrawing Atlanta there but the Jackets owner is not selling.

Furthermore, I bring up their attendance in the year they made the playoffs and you counter with 10-11, which is NOT the year they made the playoffs. Their playoff attendances were 19,129 and 18,889 - which are pretty bloody good figures, well above the league average for 2011-2012, let alone the year they made the playoffs. And beyond building capacity.

Ultimately the way you have used statistics is rendered utterly useless a valid measure of anything by my pointing out that if Columbus "only got" 200 more fans than Atlanta in 2010-11 and are therefore a bad fan base, then I would reply with:

In 2011-2012 (last season) Columbus only drew 400 less fans per game than...Winnipeg.

Now we all know why that is - but if you're judging Columbus as a market by comparing them to Atlanta in terms of attendance, then by extension, Winnipeg must be a pretty crummy market too.

Oh, and by the way - the fans turned out when Atlanta made the playoffs too. 18,803 and 18,857. Both beyond capacity as well.

[Toe]

I dont mind it, although I would have preferred each conference having divisions of 8 and 7.

Its not really a big deal, though. Cool to have Detroit as a rival again.

[Sweet Holy Moses]

Plubby. I didn't miss your point. You missed my point. I'm saying that there is, currently and recently historically, little fan interest in the Columbus Blue Jackets. I used attendance figures from two years ago to show my point. Two playoff games from five years ago is both a minuscule sample size, and not indicative of current realities.

And the reason Atlanta owners wanted out is because the attendance figures were so low. So yes, there is a correlation between low attendance and relocation. You don't see the Leafs, Habs or Rangers talking about moving. It's only the poorly-drawing teams. And no, I don't consider nearly selling out a 15000 seat arena makes Winnipeg a market as crummy as Columbus or Atlanta, that draw the same amount of fans, but leave 4000 seats empty on a nightly basis.

Finally, I'm not suggesting that the Blackhawks or Red Wings players are of the marketability of Sidney Crosby. Far from it. I'm saying that there are good players -- very, very good players -- in the same division as Columbus. And some great ones on Columbus, too. If a franchise relies on fans of other teams/players to buy tickets to their games and still only draws 4000 less than capacity, then something is terribly wrong with either the market, or the team management. If Sidney Crosby was such a hugely impactful draw then the Devils would be getting much better crowds. After all, they're in the same division as Pittsburgh. The division of a team does not directly affect a team's attendance as much as you think it does. The fan support in the home market does.

[Lowerdeck]

I don't know if you could really use Atlanta as a comparison for Columbus, as the Atlanta market is much larger than Columbus.

[Pizza]

Pittsburgh, a very similar city to Columbus in terms of size, geography, and demographics, was very close to moving pre-lockout due to low attendance. Nobody talks about them moving anymore either. If Columbus had a good team they would be a good market. 12 years of being a bottom five team has made them a bad market, nothing else.

[Plubby]

I have already addressed literally everything you said. Either you are missing the point or you're just not reading chunks of my posts.

I fully acknowledged that Winnipeg is a far superior market to Columbus. I was using the analogy to demonstrate that statistics out-of-context are horribly misleading. Either you don't get that or you're intentionally trying to be horribly misleading.

We're back at my first point then (this town will come for a winner)? Columbus is not a hockey-first town. I'm not going to try and convince ANYONE that any sport is going to beat out Ohio State sports in Columbus. When you're not #1, you need to give people a reason to come. Raptors don't draw when they're not winning. The Avalanche don't draw great crowds when they're not winning (especially now when they compete with a winning Nuggets team on the one hand and Peyton Manning on the other).

This is first-year marketing stuff... You get people in the door for a winner, or for a draw. Columbus isn't a winner yet - so you get them to come for Sidney Crosby, and then get them to stay to watch the Jackets. Hopefully in a year or two they're good enough to do this. It happens all throughout sports. This was part of the UFC's marketing plan with Brock Lesnar - get the WWE fans (or ex-WWE fans) in to watch Brock Lesnar, and put great fights on underneath him in the card. Come for Brock, stay for the fights.

You mention that the playoffs is a small sample size - it's 100% of their playoff games. The fact that there's only two playoff games and poor attendance outside of that season demonstrates that they don't come for a losing team, and that playoff attendance shows that they DO turn out for a winner. (As Pizza alluded to while I was writing this)

[caucasianheat]

When they aren't literally the worst team in the league, Columbus pulls pretty strong TV ratings locally. They have a rather lucrative longterm deal that airs almost every single game, home and away. It's not a matter of no hockey fans in Columbus.

The ticket quandary is probably more about a lack of corporate packages being passed around than anything else. Lots of cities have this same problem (like Nashville and St. Louis), but CBJ getting sold in part to Nationwide almost definitely means that there will be lots more seats filled with comps in years to come.