Great shows that got bad, then got good again

[livid]

He isn't introduced as that character. At all. he's a good guy spy who fumbles around. it's quite clear he's Timothy Dalton. If I had that spoiled for me, I would be giving you so much abuse I'd probably get banned. Might not matter to you, but I like to be surprised when the good guy turns bad.

Oh, that. That's a fair point I guess but doesn't entirely apply when he's credited as Alexei Volkoff.

[zero]

Re: House, the two-part premiere of Season Six would've made a perfect series finale.

[Dingle]

He isn't introduced as that character. At all. he's a good guy spy who fumbles around. it's quite clear he's Timothy Dalton. If I had that spoiled for me, I would be giving you so much abuse I'd probably get banned. Might not matter to you, but I like to be surprised when the good guy turns bad.

Oh, that. That's a fair point I guess but doesn't entirely apply when he's credited as Alexei Volkoff.

yes, but you listed his real name and his character name, which is the issue. I'd much rather the hassle of clicking "open spoiler" everytime with a little headline to say what the spoiler concerns, than risk seeing something that ruins a twist or turn for me. Especially in a thread like this where we're all discussing different shows.

[Josh]

House MD was great for the 1st three seasons, lost a little steam with all the new characters in the season 4 (but was still solid), had a trainwreck of season 5 before a great rebound in season 6.

I disagree with this. I don't feel House even fits this thread. House started off just pretty well and got better and better with each season after that (yes, I include the unique events of Season 5). Until Season 6. Season 6 started strong as all hell, then began the show's gradual descent which culminated in one of the most disappointing finales I can remember.

House is almost the epitome of The Rise and Fall of a TV Series. Once it fell - even though it was a gradual fall - it never really recovered.

I couldn't disagree more (obviously). Season 5 was a trainwreck.

Foreteen was a an annoying and wasteful story, Kutner suicide just seemed very unnecessary. Cuddy baby stuff and House flirtations were fine I supposed. It is the only season that I just feel like House is thrust into the background, until he starts hallucinating, which in the way it was done just made it feel as if the show had jumped the shark.

I hadn't found anyone who disliked the season 6 finale until now, and I actually think it may have been best if the series ended there.

Pah, I liked House throughout. Every series had something different going for it and really liked every different angle they took. I could name a few top quality, excellent episodes from every series.

Again, I feel the descent was gradual. I stayed with the series to the very end (only to be very, very let down by the finale.) Every season had at least a few truly great episodes, but by the beginning of he slow decline in Season 6 it had become a show that relied upon the overall season and series narrative as much as the individual episode's story. That overall narrative took some questionable turns, but I kept sticking with it, thinking this will all be worth it in the end. It wasn't. In hindsight, everything after the Season 6 premiere that Zero mentioned was essentially making it up as they went, with no real vision of how to tie it all up. It's very frustrating to get that wrapped up in a show, only to have it bleed out so slowly, then have it die in an almost comically questionable fashion. I still love Hugh Laurie, as I loved him before the series. His performance as House was remarkable and almost single-handedly maintained my interest through to the end. But in the end itself, the narrative could not meet the standard his performance had established.

Also, clearly this will be subjective in some sense, because

the events of Season 5 that all led up to House's hallucinations and submission to - and struggle with - treatment, is probably my favorite arc of the series. That includes Kutner's death (by the way, that was necessitated by Kal Penn's sabbatical from acting to work on the Obama campaign - and it was a great way to make use of what could have been a terrible situation), Cuddy's baby woes, etc. All of that ended up reading like a grand setting of the stage for Dr. House's major collapse, which I of course thought was a tremendous payoff. Like Zero said, if the series had ended with the Season 6 opener it would have been near perfect.

[Dingle]

House MD was great for the 1st three seasons, lost a little steam with all the new characters in the season 4 (but was still solid), had a trainwreck of season 5 before a great rebound in season 6.

I disagree with this. I don't feel House even fits this thread. House started off just pretty well and got better and better with each season after that (yes, I include the unique events of Season 5). Until Season 6. Season 6 started strong as all hell, then began the show's gradual descent which culminated in one of the most disappointing finales I can remember.

House is almost the epitome of The Rise and Fall of a TV Series. Once it fell - even though it was a gradual fall - it never really recovered.

I couldn't disagree more (obviously). Season 5 was a trainwreck.

Foreteen was a an annoying and wasteful story, Kutner suicide just seemed very unnecessary. Cuddy baby stuff and House flirtations were fine I supposed. It is the only season that I just feel like House is thrust into the background, until he starts hallucinating, which in the way it was done just made it feel as if the show had jumped the shark.

I hadn't found anyone who disliked the season 6 finale until now, and I actually think it may have been best if the series ended there.

Pah, I liked House throughout. Every series had something different going for it and really liked every different angle they took. I could name a few top quality, excellent episodes from every series.

Again, I feel the descent was gradual. I stayed with the series to the very end (only to be very, very let down by the finale.) Every season had at least a few truly great episodes, but by the beginning of he slow decline in Season 6 it had become a show that relied upon the overall season and series narrative as much as the individual episode's story. That overall narrative took some questionable turns, but I kept sticking with it, thinking this will all be worth it in the end. It wasn't. In hindsight, everything after the Season 6 premiere that Zero mentioned was essentially making it up as they went, with no real vision of how to tie it all up. It's very frustrating to get that wrapped up in a show, only to have it bleed out so slowly, then have it die in an almost comically questionable fashion. I still love Hugh Laurie, as I loved him before the series. His performance as House was remarkable and almost single-handedly maintained my interest through to the end. But in the end itself, the narrative could not meet the standard his performance had established.

Also, clearly this will be subjective in some sense, because

the events of Season 5 that all led up to House's hallucinations and submission to - and struggle with - treatment, is probably my favorite arc of the series. That includes Kutner's death (by the way, that was necessitated by Kal Penn's sabbatical from acting to work on the Obama campaign - and it was a great way to make use of what could have been a terrible situation), Cuddy's baby woes, etc. All of that ended up reading like a grand setting of the stage for Dr. House's major collapse, which I of course thought was a tremendous payoff. Like Zero said, if the series had ended with the Season 6 opener it would have been near perfect.

Was that two-parter the episodes where he's in that rehab centre?

[Josh]

Yes.

[Dingle]

Then fuck yes, that two-parter was awesome and despite a few good episodes afterwards, was a perfect way for the show to end.