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ShockTheCistern

Am I the only one who thinks Sarri is overrated?

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I know that Liverpool and Man City are doing exceptionally well and what have you but I do kind of feel like Sarri at Chelsea is very overrated all things considered. Not only does it look like he is going to let go of Hudson-Odoi, the way he manages the team seems to be quite peculiar. I am not a huge fan of Jorginho either despite some people waxing lyrical about him on his arrival. Is it just me? What do you guys think?

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Liam Mk2    4,168

I don’t think he’s overrated, he’s definitely a solid coach with a clear philosophy to how he wants his team setup. I think Chelsea are mainly lacking a world class centre-forward at the moment.

On the Hudson-Odoi point, I’m not sure it’s fair to pin that on Sarri, as we all know that Chelsea’s recruitment etc is dealt with above the head coaches level. 

In addition to that, I really dislike the way football has become so short-sighted. It’s more competitive now than it’s ever been arguably, you can’t expect one manager to come in and work wonders within months every single time. It doesn’t happen. I say this because I already see Arsenal fans turning on Emery and it’s pathetic, it really is. Different situation to that of Chelsea but still daft to already jump on the managers back despite the team not actually performing that badly in the grand scheme of things.

On the Jorginho point as well. I think he’s a brilliant player, absolute ideal deep lying playmaker for me.

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Hobo    10,880

system issues with Chelsea (and Man Utd) too that no coach is going to be able to solve. They can be a temporary salve but without actually addressing issues and creating some cohesive strategic vision for the club it's just going to be temporary fix after temporary fix.

Liverpool and City have something in common, the ownership of both have created systems within their clubs which the manager fits into.  Or was tailored to the manager with a certain long term plan in mind. Which seems to be working quite well for them both.

 

 

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Naitch    2,090
3 hours ago, Liam Mk2 said:

I don’t think he’s overrated, he’s definitely a solid coach with a clear philosophy to how he wants his team setup. I think Chelsea are mainly lacking a world class centre-forward at the moment.

On the Hudson-Odoi point, I’m not sure it’s fair to pin that on Sarri, as we all know that Chelsea’s recruitment etc is dealt with above the head coaches level. 

In addition to that, I really dislike the way football has become so short-sighted. It’s more competitive now than it’s ever been arguably, you can’t expect one manager to come in and work wonders within months every single time. It doesn’t happen. I say this because I already see Arsenal fans turning on Emery and it’s pathetic, it really is. Different situation to that of Chelsea but still daft to already jump on the managers back despite the team not actually performing that badly in the grand scheme of things.

On the Jorginho point as well. I think he’s a brilliant player, absolute ideal deep lying playmaker for me.

As a (somewhat lapsed) Chelsea fan I very much agree with this. My preference was Aubameyang over Morata at the time of their respective transfers and, thought I was more than happy to give Morata a chance, the better purchase is more than obvious at this point. Morata has not been an acceptable replacement for Diego Costa and Giroud isn't an acceptable replacement for Morata. I'm not even sure who the right man for the job would be, but the modern 4-2-3-1 formation needs a goalscoring striker so that high scoring wingers like Hazard can complement their tallies rather than make up for the lack of them.

Chelsea are awful at blooding young players, as evidenced by the fact that the last consistent first-team player to work their way up through the ranks was the now 38 year-old John Terry. A top level team with a massive bank balance and a revolving door of managers will always struggle to create a decent long term vision for itself. This ties in with the lack of time given to managers in the modern game. The fact that there are only a handful of managers in the English league who have been with the same club for more than 5 years is a sad state of affairs.

I don't follow game-to-game affairs for any team nowadays but I'm under the impression that Jorginho has been a key asset for Chelsea so far this season. Something about him having more than twice as many touches than any of his teammates in the Palace or Watford game?

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stokerino    10,732

A random string of thoughts on the matter...

* It's clear Sarri likes to play a very specific way. Jorginho is evidently critical to this as the passing fulcrum at the centre of midfield. Fuck knows what we would be doing if Sarri had joined the club but Jorginho hadn't.

* Sarri's way of playing worked in Italy. It's not working particularly well here, but is that the players? The squad depth? The league? Something else? I don't know.

* When I say it's "not working particularly well", what I mean we seem to have reached this point where we can have soooo much possession but create almost no chances against teams even half-minded to defend well. It's like the old Arsenal cliché, only more so.

* On a slight tangent, why is Chelsea forever plagued by striker issues? It's like the team cannot function unless we discover the striker equivalent of a magical unicorn, and it's been that way for years.

* Separate from the actual style/way in which we attained these results, being 4th with a tally of points that would be equivalent to 79 or 80 at the end of the season isn't bad per se. Indeed, any normal/sensible/non-Chelsea club which finished 5th the prior season would see this as perfectly adequate for a new manager after only six months in the job. The fact that Chelsea have had a tendency to fluctuate between Garbage and SUDDENLY CHAMPIONS AGAIN in recent seasons only confuses this further.

So in all... On the one hand I feel like criticising 'Sarriball' at this stage is holding him to unrealistically high standards, given our position in the table and the wider context. On the other hand, I have no fucking clue how the situation is meant to improve without either the aforementioned acquisition of magical unicorn players, and/or everyone in the squad waking up one day and going "ohhh NOW I get it", leading them all to somehow suddenly play 20%+ faster and more effectively. Again, probably via the influence of magic. Or unicorns.

Bleh.

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Nerf    5,207
18 minutes ago, stokerino said:

or everyone in the squad waking up one day and going "ohhh NOW I get it", leading them all to somehow suddenly play 20%+ faster and more effectively.

Isn't this kind of exactly what happened under Guardiola and Klopp, though? Pep had some absolutely shocking results in his first season, and their league position simply wasn't good enough for the calibre of player they had. Likewise, Liverpool demonstrated moments in Klopp's first few seasons, and those moments became increasingly regular as the years wore on. Repetition is vastly underrated in coaches that have such a distinct playing style, and City and Liverpool (and, to a lesser extent, Spurs) have/are reaping the benefits of sticking with their formulas even when things aren't going well. Chelsea and Arsenal should look to do the same. A change of manager shouldn't even be entering conscious thought until at least the end of their second seasons, and even then, only if thing are particularly dire.

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Liam Mk2    4,168

An example of Chelsea’s head coach not having a huge say on recruitment was just made apparent.

Sarri said he was asked his opinion on Pulisic a month ago then didn’t hear anything until the club announced the signing yesterday.

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Naitch    2,090

That is literally not how football should work and sometimes I wonder how things got this way.

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Gazz    54,658
8 minutes ago, Naitch said:

That is literally not how football should work and sometimes I wonder how things got this way.

 

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Molly    575

Overrated? If Chelsea make top 4 and win a couple of trophies, you'll be sarri.

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Gazz    54,658

It is strange however when you hire a manager that has a very well-known, very structured and very rigid tactical philosophy and then someone else is buying the players to fit into that system, seemingly without consulting the manager in question.

It's even more baffling when you look at the two major current powerhouses in English football, who both have managers who also have a very strong sense of how they want their teams to play and both have been given time and resources to buy the players they wanted. Klopp has had five transfer windows and has purchased players that fit his system and has turned them into real title contenders in that period.

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Hobo    10,880

Either they don't know what they're doing or they just don't really care and do things for the sake of it.

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Liam Mk2    4,168
4 minutes ago, Gazz said:

It's even more baffling when you look at the two major current powerhouses in English football, who both have managers who also have a very strong sense of how they want their teams to play and both have been given time and resources to buy the players they wanted. Klopp has had five transfer windows and has purchased players that fit his system and has turned them into real title contenders in that period.

This is exactly why I remind myself that although I was very annoyed at the time that Arsenal didn't make a move for Klopp as soon as he became available, he would have inevitably failed purely because the support from the board wouldn't have been there like he has had at Liverpool. They have turned into the force they are because the club are all pulling in the same direction. 

I'm not sure that can be said for Chelsea in particular as any manager coming in has to adapt themselves to the way the club is being run, which at the moment seems to be maximising profit from younger players signed for modest fees.

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MDK    23,991
2 hours ago, Nerf said:

Isn't this kind of exactly what happened under Guardiola and Klopp, though? Pep had some absolutely shocking results in his first season, and their league position simply wasn't good enough for the calibre of player they had. Likewise, Liverpool demonstrated moments in Klopp's first few seasons, and those moments became increasingly regular as the years wore on. Repetition is vastly underrated in coaches that have such a distinct playing style, and City and Liverpool (and, to a lesser extent, Spurs) have/are reaping the benefits of sticking with their formulas even when things aren't going well. Chelsea and Arsenal should look to do the same. A change of manager shouldn't even be entering conscious thought until at least the end of their second seasons, and even then, only if thing are particularly dire.

Pep also spent the GDP of some African countries on fullbacks.

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stokerino    10,732
34 minutes ago, Hobo said:

Either they don't know what they're doing or they just don't really care and do things for the sake of it.

Either is possible. The Director of Football post is still vacant so I don't even know who's leading the way on transfer dealings these days.

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