NHL accepts meeting request

[VinceMcMahonForPresident]

I miss my Avs.

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Or, The Team Formerly Known as The Nordiques.

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What are you getting at?

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[SeanDMan]

Or the Flames the Fla... actually forget I said anything.

[grind your soul]

I miss my NHL

I miss my Leafs being tormented at every turn

I miss making it to the play-offs and getting my hopes up only to be disappointed

I miss hockey fights

I miss beautiful goals

Most of all..

I miss Wade belak

[Guest Wrestling_Man]

I miss my NHL

I miss my Leafs being tormented at every turn

I miss making it to the play-offs and getting my hopes up only to be disappointed

I miss hockey fights

I miss beautiful goals

Most of all..

I miss Wade belak

←

[grind your soul]

A few bits of news:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=107268]Shane Doan speaks of the players proposal

Two days before the NHL and NHLPA are set to sit down and discuss the collective bargaining agreement, commissioner Gary Bettman is once again in the crosshairs of the players.

Phoenix Coyotes player representative Shane Doan says Bettman's insistence on "cost certainty" has more to do with saving his job than saving the sport.

"I think it's almost solely that, I really do," Doan tells the Vancouver Province. "It boggles my mind how Gary has kept his job."

"I don't know what happened to him in the last lockout (1994). Maybe he feels embarrassed and is trying to prove himself in this one."

Doan's comments come on the heels of NHLPA executive Ted Saskin, who said players no longer respected Bettman.

Doan adds the offer which will be put on the table Thursday in Toronto goes beyond what has been speculated an is of real substance.

"This is a proposal that if (the owners) say no and won't flat-out negotiate, we can sleep at night because we're giving a lot back and doing everything we can to try and save the season," he says.

Doan indicated that the proposal might include a 10-percent rollback on salaries and a baseball-style arbitration system where the arbitrator is free to choose either the player or owner's offer. It's possible that owners will also be given the option of taking players to arbitration.

Doan says there are also changes in the qualifying offer and a luxury tax of 75 cents on the dollar on budgets over $40-million as well as harsh fines for teams exceeding a $60-million threshhold. As well, the entry-level salary cap for rookies has been trimmed to $850,000 from $1.2-million.

But Doan says the one this you won't find in the proposal is a hard salary cap.

"(The owners) don't want guaranteed contracts. What they want is, if they make a mistake, they want to be able to cut a guy and not have to worry about it."

[sahyder1]

I'm with GYS on this one, that is a pretty good offer from the Player's Association. On the Arbitration I'd like to see the arbitrator have the right to go in the middle somewhere, not just one or the other. The NHL will definitely argue against the Luxury Tax being only 75 cents on the dollar. I'd be shocked if they agree to a luxury tax in the first place. The player's have made a good offer here though, it's time for the league to step up.

[SeanDMan]

No change to qualifying offers?

[sahyder1]

No change to qualifying offers?

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[KJE]

I actually thought that was such a good deal to save the season. Players meet with Owners on Tuesday for a counter offer. 24% rollback is good, but in a way I agree with the owners, and with the players too. I'm 50/50, so I'm excited for Tuesday.

[Jester of Death]

I always had this crazy idea to where all the players kept their current contracts but all players were put up in a "fantasy-like" draft and all the teams just redrafted all the players following salary cap rules

But of course this idea is dumb

[Malenko]

I miss my NHL

I miss my Leafs being tormented at every turn

I miss making it to the play-offs and getting my hopes up only to be disappointed

I miss hockey fights

I miss beautiful goals

Most of all..

I miss Wade belak

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The hockey fights were some of the best ever. They make the NBA look like amateur boxers.

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[sahyder1]

I always had this crazy idea to where all the players kept their current contracts but all players were put up in a "fantasy-like" draft and all the teams just redrafted all the players following salary cap rules

But of course this idea is dumb

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Edited December 10, 2004 by sahyder1

[sahyder1]

NHL to reject NHLPA proposal

TSN.ca Staff

12/13/2004

The outlook for this National Hockey League season has never been more bleak than it is today.

TSN has obtained a copy of a confidential eight-page memorandum sent by the NHL to all 30 member clubs, outlining the league's reaction to the NHL Players' Association proposal of last week and clearly stating the NHL's intention to reject the proposal and counter with one of its own.

"In sum, we believe the Union's December 9 CBA proposal, while offering necessary and significant short-term financial relief, falls well short of providing the fundamental systemic changes that are required to ensure that overall League economics remain in synch on a going-forward basis," NHL executive vice president Bill Daly wrote in the Dec. 12 memo which went to all governors and alternative governors, including many NHL general managers. "While the immediate 'rollback' of 24 per cent offered by the Union would materially improve League economics for the 2004-05 season, there is virtually nothing in the Union's proposal that would prevent the dollars 'saved' from being re-directed right back into the player compensation system, such that the League's overall financial losses would approach current levels in only a matter of a couple of years."

The memo reiterated NHL commissioner Gary Bettman's intention to provide a counter-proposal to the NHLPA at a 1 p.m. meeting on Tuesday in Toronto. The memo said the counter proposal "will be an appropriate response to the Union's offer and will ensure the League's future stability and long-term health."

Related Info

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NHLPA offers rollback on salaries

In other words, the counter-proposal is likely to contain "cost certainty" or a linkage between salaries and revenues, which the NHLPA sees as a "salary cap" and a non-starter for negotiations.

Not only does this league document provide a specific reaction to every aspect of the NHLPA's Dec. 9 proposal, but also "cynically" questions the motives of the NHLPA, especially with regard to the proposed salary rollback of a whopping 24 per cent.

"We believe the Union's offer was more about trying to unify the players and ensure player solidarity with what they would perceive as a very substantial proposal than it was about making a good faith effort to reach agreement us..." Daly wrote. "...The Union needed the 'rallying point' that it felt this offer would provide with the players to effectuate this strategy. Under this scenario, the Union will likely (and quickly) break off negotiations."

The league document does not specifically spell out what may be in the NHL's counter-proposal, but does touch on some of what will be part of it, including the abolition of salary arbitration in its entirety and a "restructuring" of the NHLPA's 24 per cent salary rollback.

"We plan to make a counter-offer to the Union on Tuesday in Toronto consistent with our mandate from (the governors) in that regard," the memo said.

It's not difficult to figure out what will be in the counter proposal when you look at how the league reacted to the NHLPA's specific proposals:

On the NHLPA-proposed 24 per cent rollback for all existing contracts, the NHL reaction is: "...(while) the Union's offer in this regard was significant in the same approximate range of magnitude that will be necessary, we believe the 'rollback' should be structured among the players in a more equitable manner than the Union's current proposal envisions."

On the NHLPA-proposed changes to the entry-level system, the league's reaction is: "...we do not believe the Union's proposed changes to the Entry Level System go far enough...while the Union's proposed changes to the Entry Level System are positive and, in certain cases, might lead to cost savings, history has proven that because there is no absolute limit on the amount an Entry Level Player can earn in a given year, the Entry Level Salary Cap can (and will) still easily be circumvented."

On the NHLPA-proposed changes to the qualifying offer system, the league reaction is: "We do not believe the proposed changes to the level of required Qualifying Offers are meaningful, and certainly would not result in the savings of the magnitude projected by the Union."

On the NHLPA-proposed changes to salary arbitration, the league reaction is: "We believe these changes would have very limited impact (if any) on a Club's or League-wide economics...We intend to reiterate our proposal to eliminate salary arbitration in our next offer to the Union."

On the NHLPA-proposed luxury tax system that would start with a tax of 25 per cent on payrolls over $45 million with additional tax rates at thresholds of $50 million and $60 million, the league reaction is: "...the Union's actual proposal on Thursday demonstrated its continuing objective to avoid at all costs placing meaningful restraints on a Club's ability to spend excessively on player salaries...we remain firmly opposed to any new economic system that is premused on salary restraints encouraged by a luxury tax...The League's economic problems are too significant, and the future success of this sport too important, to accept a system based on projections and guesswork, particularly when we believe that the underlying dynamics of operating af team will not have been addressed."

On the NHLPA-proposed revenue redistribution plan which would see high revenue teams provide funds for lower revenue teams, the NHL reaction is: "we envision a revenue sharing pool that will be funded primarily by a portion of revenues generated in the Stanley Cup playoffs," as opposed to revenue sharing on the basis of regular-season revenues.

Clearly, in spite of the NHLPA offer of last week, the two sides could not be further apart. With both sides so entrenched in their current positions on the issue of cost certainty or linkage or salary cap, there is no reason to believe there will be any negotiations coming out of Tuesday's session in Toronto.

[Cactus Drags]

I really do feel like banging my head against the wall. Do they not have even the most basic understanding of what the other side wants?

[Laice07]

I am so pissed right now....not even watching star wars or harry potter would cheer me up....but its worth a try.

stupid Bettman, I can't wait 'till your ass is fired! 2 lockt outs?!. Asshole.

Edited December 15, 2004 by Laice_

[SeanDMan]

Prime Minister offers intervention

Canadian Press

12/14/2004

OTTAWA (CP) - Prime Minister - and hockey fan - Paul Martin offered federal intervention in NHL labour talks Tuesday as a locSuckt threatened to wipe out the entire season.

The prime minister, a self-described Montreal Canadiens fan, did not specify whether he felt Ottawa could mediate the dispute or play some other role.

Martin said he told representatives of the players' and owners' sides that his government would participate if both parties agreed to it - and that they have declined the offer so far.

"There's only a role for Ottawa if the parties want it," he told CBC television in one of several year-end interviews he did Tuesday.

"There's not a role for Ottawa if Ottawa simply goes in there and says to either the players' association or the owners, `Look now, here we come.'

"But I've made it very clear if both sides thought there was a role for us to play that we would be prepared to play it."

However, one of the few things both the league and the National Hockey League Players' Association have agreed on is that they don't need an outside mediator to get involved, arguing they know their issues best.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman reiterated that Tuesday and alluded to a lack of faith in government action pending from the 1998 proposals made by a committee chaired by Liberal MP Dennis Mills.

It suggested tax breaks for Canadian sports teams but the government backed away from the plan amid sharp public criticism.

"I'm always happy to hear from the Prime Minister," said Bettman. "We have a very cordial and friendly relationship. But I don't think government intervention makes sense, particularly if you look at the history with the Mills Committee, when the government had the opportunity to do something and choose not to."

With the NHL locSuckt already into its third month, hopes for a settlement appeared to dim Tuesday when players and owners rejected each other's contract offers.

No future talks are scheduled.

It's unclear just how the Canadian government could actually involve itself in the dispute: 24 of the NHL's 30 teams play in the United States.

An official in Martin's office downplayed the likelihood of the federal government being dragged into the dispute.

"In separate conversations over the past few weeks (Martin) has had occasion to speak, in passing, with acquaintances from the management and players' sides" said spokesman Scott Reid.

"As a hockey fan he naturally asked if there was anything he could do to help find a resolution to this stand-off.

"The view from both sides was that there really wasn't much that government could do to help and that ultimately it falls to the two parties to negotiate an outcome."

Martin declined to offer an opinion on the dispute, saying the federal government shouldn't display any prejudice if it wanted to get involved.

But he did say Tuesday in another interview that he wanted to see the NHL help smaller teams survive, and cited the NFL's Green Bay Packers and the CFL's Saskatchewan Roughriders as examples.

Both the CFL and NFL have salary caps but Martin did not specifically say whether he felt the NHL should have one. The salary cap issue lies at the heart of the dispute between hockey players and owners.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=108094&hubName=nhl

[wCwCreator]

Bettman's an ass. Atleast the NHLPA are trying... but Goodenow did make a point, The league changed basically everything in the PA's proposal and then put a salary cap right on it. How is that helping?

I mean build off the proposal, don't change the whole thing. Your just pushing the players into a corner. The players aren't to blame cause they are trying to save the season, it's the owners and the league that are really just saying "Keep your 24% rollback, but we still need to take more money from you."

The owners are hell-bent on having a cap. The players are saying "screw your cost-certainty, without us the players you have no league." and the fans are stuck at home watching Molson commercials about guys in a bar singing "Do you really want to hurt me?"

If they get a deal done in the next 3 weeks, then that's great news but from today's meeting. It 80% in climbing that the NHL will have no season

[jonnycomelately]

I'm not even an NHL fan but it used to give me something to listen to on the radio and it was entertaining.

Everytime I see either side on TV, they say the saem thing. The players are like "They're saying hard cap hard cap and that just wont happen." The league owners are like "They are being too stubborn."

It is ridiculous the percentage of hockey money that goes to pay player salaries but both sides need to bend a little bit so that they dont lose more fans than they already have.

[sahyder1]

Big E shooting for straight-As

By LANCE HORNBY -- Toronto Sun

The Big E now means Economics for Eric Lindros.

The former Hart Trophy winner is taking day courses at the University of Toronto, joining his union brethren in trying to put the down time of the National Hockey League lockout to some use as it pushes into four months. But he's not yet ready to commit to a serious career in the business world after hockey.

"I'm just interested in it," Lindros said yesterday at an NHLPA toy charity autograph session at Vaughn Mills Mall. "It's ironic that it's that topic (in the middle of a bitter collective bargaining negotiation). I don't know if some of the graphs we study correspond to what we're going through (with the owners), but it has been fun."

The 6-foot-4 Lindros is hard to miss around the U of T, in terms of size and surname. but he insists he's just another student.

"It's a big class, with about 450 to 500 people," he said. "They're so focused on school."

Asked if he's been approached by the Varsity Blues to play a little school hockey shinny, Lindros laughed and assured that neither the hockey or football teams have contacted him.

Lindros, who is without a contract, skates four or five days a week with a group of NHLers. He has also used the hiatus to re-hab shoulder surgery he underwent in late March last season to repair a torn labrum. Limited to 39 games with 32 points, his worst ailment was the eighth concussion of his career, suffered on Jan. 28.

But Lindros, who will be 32 in February, mentioned no lingering effects yesterday and insists he will be healthy if and when the games start up again.

"We all started to get out spirits lifted and felt that our proposal would be looked at in a different light," he said. "Now we're frustrated. Guys have started to back off a bit from working out with the holidays coming up and family things to go to.

"Myself, I've bought a house in the area and I've Martha Stewart-ed it up."