Getting Some More Football Discussion Going,

[supergrass]

What with the poor England showings lately, changes to the FA Cup, Chelsea being good, Arsenal becoming not so good, there’s been a fair bit of football discussion going on here which has been good to be a part of after some baron periods in the Sports Bar history. So here’s an attempt to keep a bit more going - this time on the subject of wages of players.

This is something I’ve been thinking about and talking over with some people, so I thought I’d get your thoughts on what you think about players their pay, in this instance caps on wages.

It’s pretty much a common opinion that footballers are being paid a ridiculous amount for what they do. Of course, it’s not the case for everybody (my local team Brentford have, or at least had, one of the smallest wage bills in the country with players earning very small amounts), but for those in the spotlight it is. El-Hadji Diouf was apparently reported to have said he doesn’t care about football (or words to that effect) and plays purely for the money to send home to his family in Senegal. True or not, and though it might be admirable that he’s supporting his family, it certainly highlights the mercenary nature of a lot of players today. One solution, talked about a lot not so long ago, are the introduction of wage caps.

I can see why it might appeal for the introduction of them would appeal as a possibility. Leeds have been in a lot of trouble in recent years financially, and despite cutting costs at every corner they’re still lumbered with the likes of Michael Dubbery (though I gather he’s leaving/left) and Gary Kelly who are earning in excess of £20,000 per-week which is crippling the club. Obviously the plight of Leeds is down to bad business, but one could argue having a very strict limit in lower league clubs could help them avoid over-spending, while the bigger clubs avoid the bidding wars still going on. The larger clubs, and I point to Real Madrid as my example now, look to be somewhat out of control when it comes to player power. The massive earners like Raul, Figo, Zidane et al. clearly have a stronghold over the club and it’s decisions as seen in the past. When players are earning such amounts with that is bound to come power, could wage caps also help keep some egos in check?

A lot of older people talk about the past glories of players who used to earn next-to-nothing and play purely for the love of the game and their club, while capping wages might have that effect, who’s to say it’s morally right to do? Morals aren’t always high in footballers, but who makes the decision how much a person can be paid? Surely this is eliminating the nature of good business too. All clubs (or at least most) must have started from the same point however many years ago, the fact some have grown to be World powers is arguably a result of their own good business. Big business and success draw money which will draw the better players, so on the other hand I can see how wage caps just aren’t practical to football as we know it. Roman Abramovich has amounted his money through business one way or another, why can’t he use it to his own advantage now? Capping wages could take away the prospect of Bosman rulings, with contract and wage disputes being less of an issue, though surely the escalation of wages has to end somewhere.

That’s basically what I’ve been kicking about in my head, so what do you think?

Do players earn too much? If they do is there anything that can even be done about it? If you were agree to wage caps could they even be implemented realistically?

So do things go on as they are or do we move towards things like performance-related-pay? Any opinions/solutions/thoughts people have are welcomed.

[fineintent]

I really don't know where I stand on this - on one hand, it's disgusting to see people like Diouf or Anelka on silly amounts of money when they have zero work ethic, on the other a football career is short and players need to be able to support themselves post football. The blame here lies firmly with the boards, the papers are always bitching about highly paid footballers - if you were offered £50,000 a week would you turn it down?

I don't agree with the idea of a salary cap - there's a reason a Thierry Henry gets paid more than a Steve Howard, and that's true of all professions. Money is part of the sport now, and it's inconcievable that it would be removed. Loyalty and drive depends on the person involved, which is again true of all jobs, compare Sol Campbell to Steven Gerrard - one jumped ship on a free, the other sweats blood to help his club and will undoubtedly make them millions when he leaves.

As for the Real Madrid issue, the blame again lies with the board - they pander to the 'galacticos' by putting pressure on the managers, would merchandise sales really drop that much if Figo was dropped on a Saturday?

[Malenko]

I really don't know where I stand on this - on one hand, it's disgusting to see people like Diouf or Anelka on silly amounts of money when they have zero work ethic, on the other a football career is short and players need to be able to support themselves post football. The blame here lies firmly with the boards, the papers are always bitching about highly paid footballers - if you were offered £50,000 a week would you turn it down?

I don't agree with the idea of a salary cap - there's a reason a Thierry Henry gets paid more than a Steve Howard, and that's true of all professions. Money is part of the sport now, and it's inconcievable that it would be removed. Loyalty and drive depends on the person involved, which is again true of all jobs, compare Sol Campbell to Steven Gerrard - one jumped ship on a free, the other sweats blood to help his club and will undoubtedly make them millions when he leaves.

As for the Real Madrid issue, the blame again lies with the board - they pander to the 'galacticos' by putting pressure on the managers, would merchandise sales really drop that much if Figo was dropped on a Saturday?

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[TMM]

There should be a wage cap is my opinion. Simply because (using my an example I know) my mum is head of payroll for a large company, and earns around £30/40k a year. Now, you look at Premiership players who do 1/50th of the work she does and they earn two, sometimes three times that ammount...it makes me sick.

There should be a specific wage cap for the Premiership, one for the Championship, one for League One and so on and so forth all over Britain (to star with, move to Europe etc the next year or something) because it's ridiculous.

[supergrass]

There should be a wage cap is my opinion. Simply because (using my an example I know) my mum is head of payroll for a large company, and earns around £30/40k a year. Now, you look at Premiership players who do 1/50th of the work she does and they earn two, sometimes three times that ammount...it makes me sick.

There should be a specific wage cap for the Premiership, one for the Championship, one for League One and so on and so forth all over Britain (to star with, move to Europe etc the next year or something) because it's ridiculous.

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Edited March 6, 2005 by supergrass

[Malenko]

figo makes in a month what my dad makes in 10 years. That's how exagerated things are now.

[The Slickman]

I Honestly see nothing wrong with the wages . Lets face it Football is entertainment . Actors are paid wages to do a TV series , poor acting leads them to be replaced . IMO Simple As That

[lanky316]

I Honestly see nothing wrong with the wages . Lets face it Football is entertainment . Actors are paid wages to do a TV series , poor acting leads them to be replaced . IMO Simple As That

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[TMM]

Hollywood actors get over-paid as well, just wanted to mention that as well.

I get what you're saying, there really isn't a fool proof way to do it. It would need to be a combination of a wage-cap and the transfer window that did it. They'd need to sit down, and think it out from the outset because otherwise it would have no effect.

With the transfer window, they'd need it otherwise, like you've said, players would be moving to the top as soon as they could. But to be honest, everyone's aim is to play at the top level, so there's not much of a difference in that aspect.

Yeah, I rambled there...

[fineintent]

I can't help thinking that if the FA were to invoke a salary cap, then all the best players would filter off to Spain or Italy - where I doubt a cap would be introduced, as the glamour sides like Milan, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter or Juventus would have none of it.

[TMM]

If they go, then they go.

I think that it would be better for the game as whole if a wage cap was introduced. Sure it would be terrible at first with all the big money whiners fucking off, but then clubs would have more money to invest in youth set-ups and things like that, and then they'd have to rely more on homegrown players (like the new FIFA rule thingy's going on about) so in the end I think it would provide more competition.

[Jonny D]

I agree there should be a salary cap but I don't think there should be just one fixed cap for all teams in the Premiership, and one of all teams in the Championship, as this would mean Man United and Chelsea have just as much money to spend on wages as Palace and Norwich, which just isn't fair. Maybe a club specific cap would work, where they allow a certain percentage of a clubs annual turnover to go on wages.

[Colly]

Surely that would just further imbalance things. Sorry Palace, you're up to your wage cap so you can't improve your team in order to stay up, but Man U can quite happily sign a few more world class types because they sell shitloads of shirts to the Far East.

I'll be honest, I no longer see the players wages as unfair and ridiculous. If you think about it this way you may see my point. From the age of about six every young male in the country, barring perhaps an odd few (mainly homosexuals, but then look at Graham Le Saux), wants to grow up and be a footballer. Now we are talking a fair few million people here. Now if you can become good enough to play professionally this will pretty much mean you are better than that same several million people. Those who don't make that grade basically pay for the industry through ticket sales, Sky subscriptions, whatever. So for me, if you can somehow reach that top 1% of all the people who wanted to do what you do, you deserve to be treated as a superstar even if you are playing in a lower league side, with the wages to go with it. For every moment I think Ronaldinho is getting paid too much, theres another where I think he's fucking ace and deserves it.

Rant over, probably illegible in parts but I think you get the idea.

[MDK]

I think distibuting TV money a little bit better would help. I read that currently 50% of the money in the premiership goes to the 20 clubs and the rest goes to merit awards which the big teams gobble up anyway. If 75% of the money went to all the clubs and the rest on merit awards, it would help the smaller clubs in the Prem.

And maybe some more money being handed out to the football league would help. Damn Premiership officials are greedy and corrupt. One of them got Wednesday into massive debt, left them... and then got offered the job of running the Prem. Glorious.

[Malenko]

Surely that would just further imbalance things. Sorry Palace, you're up to your wage cap so you can't improve your team in order to stay up, but Man U can quite happily sign a few more world class types because they sell shitloads of shirts to the Far East.

I'll be honest, I no longer see the players wages as unfair and ridiculous. If you think about it this way you may see my point. From the age of about six every young male in the country, barring perhaps an odd few (mainly homosexuals, but then look at Graham Le Saux), wants to grow up and be a footballer. Now we are talking a fair few million people here. Now if you can become good enough to play professionally this will pretty much mean you are better than that same several million people. Those who don't make that grade basically pay for the industry through ticket sales, Sky subscriptions, whatever. So for me, if you can somehow reach that top 1% of all the people who wanted to do what you do, you deserve to be treated as a superstar even if you are playing in a lower league side, with the wages to go with it. For every moment I think Ronaldinho is getting paid too much, theres another where I think he's fucking ace and deserves it.

Rant over, probably illegible in parts but I think you get the idea.

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[Guest Booker T & The MG's]

I think distibuting TV money a little bit better would help. I read that currently 50% of the money in the premiership goes to the 20 clubs and the rest goes to merit awards which the big teams gobble up anyway.

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[supergrass]

I think distibuting TV money a little bit better would help. I read that currently 50% of the money in the premiership goes to the 20 clubs and the rest goes to merit awards which the big teams gobble up anyway.

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That's a problem in the CL as well, big clubs outside the big leagues like Ajax, Rangers, Celtic and Porto get a smaller percentage of TV Revenue even if they were to go into the latter stages of the CL, and further than some of the bigger clubs.

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Edited March 6, 2005 by supergrass

[Summers]

But really.

Are we meant to believe that 10-20k a week isn't enough money to live on easily? People earning 90k a week is ridiculous.

[supergrass]

But really.

Are we meant to believe that 10-20k a week isn't enough money to live on easily? People earning 90k a week is ridiculous.

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[Guest Pirate Chasin' Booty]

I only believe a wage cap would work if it was implemented by FIFA, and since that won't happen it wouldn't work. If certain leagues have wage caps and others don't the better players will just go to where the money is, so as it is, it can't work.

I'm not too bothered about the amounts of money they make, who are we to say they're making TOO much? if someone is willing to pay vast amounts of money than thats up to them. There are plenty of jobs that pay large amounts of cash for doing less work than lower paid jobs, thats life. A single mother could work 50 hours a week in a factory for £5 an hour, Clint Eastwood could fart in a jar and sell it on eBay for $100,000 but can we blame him? he's successful, people are willing to pay him losts of money.

Football is a big business, theres big money in that business, the players deserve a share of that money, I don't care how much they get, if someone will give them 100,000 a week, great, I'm not going to hate on them for being more successful than me.