NBA Playoffs Thread

[naiwf]

McGrady wouldn't bring excitement to the Garden since he'd be double teamed just the same way he was in Orlando. The only way the Knicks could get him would be to give up Houston and a forward, leaving Marbury as the only other scoring threat. Therefore after about half a season, he'd be whining again that no one else on the team could shoot or relieve the pressure he'd be facing. Kobe can create, just like Marbury, which would give the Knicks more offensive options, and a truly dominant backcourt, which is vital in the East.

Larry Brown walked into Rick Carlisle's system, Rick Carlisle deserved the ring, not him. Larry Brown's systems got the Pacers and 76ers slapped around in the playoffs time and time again.

[sahyder1]

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and sahyder, why do you insist on pushing T-Mac? He's NOT better then Kobe. Kobe is CLUTCH, T-Mac, not clutch. Kobe has THREE rings, ones in which he contributed greatly, T-Mac has one playoff series in which he couldn't even close down a team he had down 3-1. Don't try and pimp T-Mac as some amazing great player. Good? Yes. Kobe? HELL NO!

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Do I think either T-Mac or Kobe fall in the "great" category? Hell no. Do I put them both in "Good"? Yes. T-Mac doesn't get a chance to perform in clutch situations because he doesn't have someone like Shaq carrying him. Put him with Shaq the amount of time Kobe had Shaq and can you seriously say that the two wouldn't have 3 rings right now? T-Mac's #s are right up there with Kobe and he's had Pat Garrity as his other option (up until last year.......not Shaq) You know very well that the Lakers have a terrible record without Shaq. Let's not try making it sound like Kobe is the reason the Lakers have their rings.

McGrady wouldn't bring excitement to the Garden since he'd be double teamed just the same way he was in Orlando. The only way the Knicks could get him would be to give up Houston and a forward, leaving Marbury as the only other scoring threat. Therefore after about half a season, he'd be whining again that no one else on the team could shoot or relieve the pressure he'd be facing. Kobe can create, just like Marbury, which would give the Knicks more offensive options, and a truly dominant backcourt, which is vital in the East.

Larry Brown walked into Rick Carlisle's system, Rick Carlisle deserved the ring, not him. Larry Brown's systems got the Pacers and 76ers slapped around in the playoffs time and time again.

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The Pistons didn't get it done under Carlisle. I like Carlisle a lot, I agree that he shouldn't have been fired but this is definitely Brown's ring.

As for the other argument, T-Mac can't create? What NBA have you been watching? It's pretty easy to create when you can dump the ball off to Shaq if things don't go right, who's T-Mac gonna rely on?

Edited June 16, 2004 by sahyder1

[naiwf]

As for the other argument, T-Mac can't create? What NBA have you been watching? It's pretty easy to create when you can dump the ball off to Shaq if things don't go right, who's T-Mac gonna rely on?

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Who is T-Mac going to pass to on the Knicks? Tim Thomas, Nazr Mohammed, Kurt Thomas, Mutombo, Mike Sweetney? That frontcourt is just as weak as the one in Orlando. He'd be playing the same game with a different jersey, which is why most Knicks fans wouldn't want him.

Rick Carlisle didn't have Rasheed Wallace. Without 'Sheed, Detroit probably loses in the first round to Milwaukee, or definitely to Jersey. It's fun to leave out the pertinent facts when they don't fit your argument.

[DMN in the House]

Do I think either T-Mac or Kobe fall in the "great" category? Hell no. Do I put them both in "Good"? Yes. T-Mac doesn't get a chance to perform in clutch situations because he doesn't have someone like Shaq carrying him. Put him with Shaq the amount of time Kobe had Shaq and can you seriously say that the two wouldn't have 3 rings right now? T-Mac's #s are right up there with Kobe and he's had Pat Garrity as his other option (up until last year.......not Shaq) You know very well that the Lakers have a terrible record without Shaq. Let's not try making it sound like Kobe is the reason the Lakers have their rings.

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I'm not saying that T-Mac couldn't, I'm saying he hasn't. The proof is in the pudding as it were. I'll take Kobe, who's proven TIME AND TIME again that he can make the big shot, over T-Mac who hasn't, that simple. Production over potential.

[EWRFan]

Even as a Laker hater I agree with Sycodm and the other people here. Kobe is better than T-Mac....T-Mac is just like Iverson(and I am an Iverson mark, but I accept his weaknesses) in that they like to be the star and take all the shots instead of playing as a team. I cant fault Iverson sometimes since he didnt have anyone to go to in Philly, but T-Mac had guys that could contribute.

The one who talked about T-Mac having more assists, well , assists are not the only thing that make you a team player, you have to be an influence in the locker room (Kobe and Shaq always are in LA) and you have to do the little things to help the team win. Points, Rebounds and assists are important , but the little things like setting screens, creating plays with your movement without the ball , working hard on defense etc are what make team winners.

And Larry Brown is an amazing coach, I would put it on the top 10 all time. Phil Jackson would be there too, but I think Brown is better because he has always built teams into playoff contenders from scratch (his days with the Pacers and 76ers), Jackson had super duos (Shaq/Kobe, Jordan/Pippen) in all his championships.

Bottom line is that Red Auerbach will always be the greatest coach in my book.(I never lived to see his teams, but I have read a lot about him)

and go Pistons!!

[sahyder1]

T-Mac is just like Iverson(and I am an Iverson mark, but I accept his weaknesses) in that they like to be the star and take all the shots instead of playing as a team.

How do you explain him getting more assists then Kobe on a worse team then?

I cant fault Iverson sometimes since he didnt have anyone to go to in Philly, but T-Mac had guys that could contribute.

Whot should T-Mac be passing the ball too?

[Guest Hit Man 3120]

The Knicks arent getting anybody. They have zero capspace, old Zeike is stuck with that lame excuse for a team

[Guest bukkake bandit]

The Knicks arent getting anybody.  They have zero capspace, old Zeike is stuck with that lame excuse for a team

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For years and years to come too, but I wouldn't call them a lame excuse for a team. They'll slide into the 5th-6th seed next year. Maybe 4th if Allan Houston is healthy or if they get rid of him.

[VerbalPuke]

As for Detroit, I'm happy for Joe Dumars (who was the only Bad Boy I liked back in the day), Billups, Rip and the Wallaces. They deserved the ring. I can't say the same about Larry Brown, the role players and Darko since they all walked into a great situation.

Ok so our role players such as Corliss, Mehmet, Tayshaun, and Hunter all walked into a great situation, yet Rasheed was here after them, and you are happy for him? From my view, it appears that Rasheed was the last to walk into this great situation (and Mike James of course). I don't understand why you wouldn't also be happy for the role players, the role players make a huge difference. Everybody, from the front office, down to our last man on the bench deserved this ring. I'd much rather see Larry get his first, as opposed to Phil Jackson getting his 10th (speaking of somebody who has walked into a great situation or two).

As for T-Mac vs. Kobe, it's a tough decision. I like Kobe's defense, but I like how T-Mac can throw up the ugliest shots, yet hit them most of the time.

[sahyder1]

Rick Carlisle didn't have Rasheed Wallace. Without 'Sheed, Detroit probably loses in the first round to Milwaukee, or definitely to Jersey. It's fun to leave out the pertinent facts when they don't fit your argument.

You should be the last one to be saying that. Carlisle did not get along with the players. He's one of those drill masters as a head coach. That mold did not fit this team. Also, credit Brown for turning Rasheed around from how he was in Portland. You think Carlisle could've done that? His mannerism would've brougth out the same old Rasheed.

[naiwf]

Ok so our role players such as Corliss, Mehmet, Tayshaun, and Hunter all walked into a great situation, yet Rasheed was here after them, and you are happy for him? From my view, it appears that Rasheed was the last to walk into this great situation (and Mike James of course). I don't understand why you wouldn't also be happy for the role players, the role players make a huge difference. Everybody, from the front office, down to our last man on the bench deserved this ring. I'd much rather see Larry get his first, as opposed to Phil Jackson getting his 10th (speaking of somebody who has walked into a great situation or two).

As for T-Mac vs. Kobe, it's a tough decision. I like Kobe's defense, but I like how T-Mac can throw up the ugliest shots, yet hit them most of the time.

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Maybe, just maybe Rasheed did more to earn a ring than those other guys who, save Prince did nothing in the playoffs. 'Sheed gets a bye because he was the main reason you won the title. Before you picked him up, you were a middle of the road team in the East who wouldn't have made it out of the 2nd round.

EDIT: What exactly did Larry Brown do to calm AI in his last few years? Giving him all the credit for Rasheed not acting like a hothead doesn't give Rasheed credit for finally displaying a level of maturity. I hate when people selectively choose to give attributes to people when it's convenient and then forget about them when it's not. Larry Brown left the 76ers because he'd served his usefulness there and his system didn't get the job done. Two or three years from now when he leaves the Pistons in a worse state because Darko hasn't yet developed, I don't want to hear about how he was the reason they were successful.

Edited June 17, 2004 by naiwf

[Guest Hit Man 3120]

Larry didn't do anything to 'Sheed really. There's that Carolina thing between them but most of all, he just let 'Sheed be 'Sheed. He didn't try and reign him in or anything like that and 'Sheed behaved on his own

And Larry Brown left Philly cuz he was sick of Allen Iverson and that team was crap. He took that team that AI and a bunch of bums to the NBA Finals in 2001. Larry Brown just hated Iverson, in a weird twist he had him traded to Detroit but Matt Geiger used his no-trade clause and killed it. Also, the people who ran Philly put nothing around Iverson

Prince did nothing? He shut down Artest and the defendant

And whenever LB leaves, this team will be in great shape. Rip, Chauncey, Tayshaun, Ben, Memo arev only going to get better. As was said, Carlos Delfino is coming over and Larry Brown loves him and Darko will dominate. This tea, you know.....The 2004 NBA World Champion Detroit Pistons (Still aint got sick of sayin that) is not a flash in the pan. They are here to stay and quite possibly will have another one or two World Championship banners hanging up in the Palace

And Chauncey was on David Letterman tonight and did us so proud. The only choice for Finals MVP, that why he's Mr. Big Shot, YES SIR!

[naiwf]

Can you read Hitman? I said, save Prince, meaning NOT counting Prince, those other "role players" didn't do a whole lot to help the Pistons in the playoffs, which is why I didn't feel they really deserved the rings they got.

Every year at least 4 or 5 players per team get lucky and collect a paycheck and a ring despite not doing much of anything, so it's not like I'm singling them out specifically. Had the Lakers won Phil Jackson, Devean George, Rick Fox, Gary Payton, Cook, SLAVA Med-ve-denko {/SAS} et al would have all picked up some hardware they didn't earn.

[Guest Hit Man 3120]

Can you read Hitman? I said, save Prince, meaning NOT counting Prince, those other "role players" didn't do a whole lot to help the Pistons in the playoffs, which is why I didn't feel they really deserved the rings they got.

Every year at least 4 or 5 players per team get lucky and collect a paycheck and a ring despite not doing much of anything, so it's not like I'm singling them out specifically. Had the Lakers won Phil Jackson, Devean George, Rick Fox, Gary Payton, Cook, SLAVA Med-ve-denko {/SAS} et al would have all picked up some hardware they didn't earn.

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Can you read Hitman? I said, save Prince, meaning NOT counting Prince, those other "role players" didn't do a whole lot to help the Pistons in the playoffs, which is why I didn't feel they really deserved the rings they got.

Right now not really. Its 12:30 AM and Ive been up since 5:40AM on like three hours sleep

And the Pistons bench was very key. Lindsey Hunter and Mike James would press like crazy and played great defense. Elden & Memo did a decent job on Shaq. The only one who didn't earn his ring was the Human Victory Cigar

SLAVA Med-ve-denko {/SAS}

Its funny you type it like that. Ever since Stephen A. Smith said his name like that after Game 4, I say it like that every time

[naiwf]

Milicic could miss Olympics for Serbia after breaking hand

 

June 17, 2004

SportsLine.com wire reports    

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Darko Milicic broke his hand in a token appearance in the Detroit Pistons' NBA title clincher, an injury that could jeopardize his chances of playing for Serbia in the Olympics.

The second overall pick in the NBA Draft was hurt at the end of the fifth and final game of the NBA Finals. He missed Thursday's parade celebrating the team's victory.

The 7-footer, who will turn 19 on Sunday, had surgery on the hand Wednesday, said Detroit president of basketball operations Joe Dumars.

The team said he is expected to miss eight weeks.

Milicic barely played as a rookie. He had told the Pistons he wouldn't play for their summer-league team because he wanted to focus on his hopes of playing in Athens.

AP NEWS

The Associated Press News Service

BWAHAHAHA, way to go Darko :thumbs-up:

Edited June 17, 2004 by naiwf

[sahyder1]

what play was this on? I don't remember anything happening.

[DMN in the House]

Just because this is the perfect thread for it... Hitman got himself indefinetly suspended by VR.

[Scarface]

What was the reason for suspension?

Also, I think the Darko play was when he went up to take his foul shots. Either during a foul shot or the foul that caused it.

[Guest bukkake bandit]

Darko is the only person I'd consider who was just along for the ride to the title, for the record. 18, played less than 170 minutes all year, and is a ring ahead of guys like Patrick Ewing and Charles Barkley.

[VerbalPuke]

Maybe, just maybe Rasheed did more to earn a ring than those other guys who, save Prince did nothing in the playoffs. 'Sheed gets a bye because he was the main reason you won the title. Before you picked him up, you were a middle of the road team in the East who wouldn't have made it out of the 2nd round.

EDIT: What exactly did Larry Brown do to calm AI in his last few years? Giving him all the credit for Rasheed not acting like a hothead doesn't give Rasheed credit for finally displaying a level of maturity. I hate when people selectively choose to give attributes to people when it's convenient and then forget about them when it's not. Larry Brown left the 76ers because he'd served his usefulness there and his system didn't get the job done. Two or three years from now when he leaves the Pistons in a worse state because Darko hasn't yet developed, I don't want to hear about how he was the reason they were successful.

Rasheed definitely helped put us over the top, I'm not denying that. However, Rasheed also did not put up the big numbers many were expecting from him. There were countless games throughout the playoffs that he went flat, and could not score. The reason he was brought to Detroit was to add another scoring dimension to this team. Our defense was already the top's in the league before he joined our crew. In my humble opinion, Mehmet Okur could have produced similar results, he is a skilled and versatile player. To say our bench did nothing in the playoffs is laughable. Part of the reason we hung in games is because we have excellent depth. Our role players did their part, they were not expected to come in and average 20 and 10 (like Rasheed was). You obviously missed the excellent defense that Lindsey hunter played, or Mehmet Okur's hustle on the boards, which kept many possessions alive for us, and even Elden and Corliss drew fouls and got us to the line when necesary. I hope that we can keep Rasheed, but if we don't then I have total confidence in Mehmet.

As for your tirade on Larry Brown, I can't comment since it had nothing to do with what I said. However, Larry Brown was brought to this team to win a championship, not build a dynasty. This team has been built to win now, and the mission was accomplished. So basically, I don't see Larry leaving this team worse off than it was. Considering we have a title under our belt, and our core of players is relatively young.

Darko is the only person I'd consider who was just along for the ride to the title, for the record. 18, played less than 170 minutes all year, and is a ring ahead of guys like Patrick Ewing and Charles Barkley.

Yeah it is a shame, but it's the nature of sports. Every team has their players who ride the pine, or don't play due to development. Just look at the NFL, guys like Barry Sanders and Dan Marino are without Super Bowl rings while other guys that only played 1-5 years have a ring, due to the fact they found themselves picked up by the right team at the right time.

Edited June 18, 2004 by VerbalPuke